TBL Retro Rosters 1998/99 (Discussion & correction thread)

[ezpkns34]

If CJ can send the DB to me then I'll happily fix it for him.

I've got the database. I've just emailed it to you. Thanks Arch!

[ezpkns34]

For anyone that uses this roster with CSD, I'm sure you've noticed a couple small issues:
- If you start in 1998 with the roster then all the player ages are nearly a decade off
- If you use the EHM Updater to alter the years, then the ages are right but the previous player stats & draft years are nearly a decade off

Well I edited all the player DOB years to be accurate, meaning the draft years & historical stats stay accurate. I also altered the years in the extra config file so they happen in the correct year as well (ie- stadium move happens in 2001 instead of 2010)

Other small changes I made:
- Updated the draft pick swaps (see page 2 of this thread for those details)
- Made small changes to financials for some of the teams. The biggest changes here were for MIN, CLB, ATL & NSH (all had $15M payrolls, upped them to $25M, still noticeably smaller than the next lowest budgets)
- Changed the market sizes. All teams had 1 market size. Used a 1-10 scale so things wouldn't be too different from the original file. I think the smallest markets in it are a few 3s while TOR, DET & NYR are the 10s. Most teams are in the 5-6 range
- Small edits to fan support
- For younger players, I cleared their favorite players & clubs. Just b/c Sidney Crosby was drafted by the Pens in real life & doesn't mean he should prefer them in this file or that he should be BFFs with Malkin. He's like 12 in this file, it makes no sense. If the player was born prior to '75 or had been with the team he liked more than a few years then I kept the club as being one they liked (likewise, brothers still have each other listed as favorite staff, even if they're young)
- Got rid of the far distant forced retirements. If Roy or Robitaille are still kicking ass beyond when they retired in real life, then let them keep playing. However, I believe I still left the future jersey retirements in (year corrected of course)
- A few minor PA changes (such Lundqvist from 190 to 185, E Staal & Towes from ~178 to 183). Definitely nothing major on the ratings changes and was only done to a few that I thought stuck out as being low or high to me
- Added NHL rights to the bigger name younger players missing them (Luongo, Regehr, Gagne, etc)
- Lastly, changed the Short Names for teams from their city name to their nickname/mascot since that's what the game has in mind when it references the short name. That said, I also put the ™ on the end of the ATL, CLB, MIN & NSH teams b/c I was bothered by them not having it in game. I also renamed the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim to the Anaheim Ducks b/c I'd prefer sanity to that bit of realism (I also changed all references in the extra config file to match the Anaheim Ducks name change, so there shouldn't be any issues)


If anyone wants to take a look at the results, here's a link to it (2 separate links in case 1 doesn't work in the future):
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/5 ... 1-zip.html
http://www.sendspace.com/file/hzeccr


If CJ doesn't want me to post this link here, then just PM me or post here saying so & I'll remove it

[Manimal]

There is also a lot of drafted guys that don't have rights in this db, but I guess they already know that

[nino33]

My plan is to return to work on the 1998 database after the next TBL Roster release (until then my focus is on helping Manimal with the TBL Rosters). The top of page 2 of this thread elaborates on the current "plan" for improving the 1998 database. CJ's currently working on the TBL Rosters too. I think his plan was to work on some European Leagues for the 1998 database (I'm "currently" working on Major Junior).

[ezpkns34]

There is also a lot of drafted guys that don't have rights in this db, but I guess they already know that

Forgot to list that I added rights for the bigger name young players that I saw who were missing them (Gagne, Luongo, Regehr, etc)

[nino33]

Thanks for sharing ezpkns34!

I've refreshed my memory on what's been happening with the 1998 database, and most everything you mentioned is being done/has been done (and more!), except...the Clubs tab info & the Extra Config file.

I'll be sure to take a look at your edits when I look at the Clubs tab data (sounds like the budgets and market size might still need some tweaking) & I think it'll probably make sense to just use your Extra Config File (IIRC neither CJ nor I have done any work on the Extra Config File, so your efforts are much appreciated!)

I'm itching to get back to retro editing!

[archibalduk]

If CJ can send the DB to me then I'll happily fix it for him.

I've got the database. I've just emailed it to you. Thanks Arch!

I have fixed the DB and returned it to Nino. Here's an explanation:

I don't think the issue relates to the club competition history. Instead, it seems to relate to the Disliked/Favourite Staff settings for Detroit, Toronto and Vancouver. I think there are some broken indexes (i.e. one or more of the Disliked/Favourite Staff settings is pointing to an invalid ID (likely to be either a non-existent ID or a negative ID number which the Editor doesn't like). I'll need to look at it more closely, but perhaps the issue has been caused by the Updater not correctly updating the Disliked/Favourite Staff table (I'll add it to my things to fix in the next Updater).

Anyhow, I have fixed the three teams affected. If you encounter the problem with another team, here is how to fix it:

1. Click on a team above or below the affected team. Use the Up or Down Arrow to move to the affected team.
2. The Editor will display the access violation error as soon as you select the team with the arrow key. Click on OK to get rid of the error.
3. Click on the Rivals/Favourites Tab.
4. Look at any blank entries under the Favourite Staff and Disliked Staff. You can ignore any entries where names are listed.
5. For each blank entry, click on the Clear button next to it.
6. Then click on Confirm to save the changes as usual.
7. Click on another team and then click back onto the affected team. If the fix worked then you won't get the error again. If you do get the error then follow steps 1-6 again (I found for one or two teams that I had to repeat the process before it was fixed).

I have completed a 1 year sim with the NHL and AHL on enhanced and it seems ok.

I haven't touched the club competition history. If you get any further problems then let me know and I'll take a look. I thought I may as well leave the history intact unless the bug arises again.

[nino33]

THANKS very much Archi!

[CJ]

Thanks ezpkns34 & Archi!!

[archibalduk]

CJ / Nino - I noticed all of the original 2006/07 players are still in the DB. Would you like me to delete these (if so, are the only players you created those which are contracted to NHL teams)?

I can quickly and easily get some spreadsheets of players from the 1998/99 season in different leagues including all of their basic bio data (DOB, height, weight, nationality, birthplace and position). Would it be helpful if I added these to the DB (assuming you want to remove all modern players)?

I tried adding the UK players to see what would happen if they're completely unrated. It seems EHM sets their CA and PAs within the range appropriate for the league (or at least for the UK) so it doesn't look like it'll result in a risk of over-rated players (in fact, most are very under-rated).

[nino33]

CJ / Nino - I noticed all of the original 2006/07 players are still in the DB. Would you like me to delete these (if so, are the only players you created those which are contracted to NHL teams)?

My first thought is no, as....

I`ve actually been going through the DB and moving players/correcting ages; from my Christmas post...

I've finished going through every player on every team in Major Junior (WHL. OHL and QMJHL), and as required I corrected age, moved players to an age appropriate team or made Invalid (to be deleted) if they were a "modern" player who was never drafted and/or never played in the NHL. I've begun the "staff_new" list of players that need to be added (also correcting age/moving players, as the database contains those 1998 players who were still playing hockey in 2006); I've only just started (in WHL, then need to do OHL/QMJHL)

IIRC I was setting CA/PA at "0" when I moved players (and many of these players have few Attributes actually rated)

One of the advantages I saw to doing things this was is if I deleted all the 1998-2006 player stats, I'd still have the player stats entered for all the players I "kept"
I was going to try, like I did with the 1974 DB, to have NHL and Minor Pro (AHL+whatever other teams existed) and Major Junior...and then maybe NCAA and Europe/Russia

BUT

I can quickly and easily get some spreadsheets of players from the 1998/99 season in different leagues including all of their basic bio data (DOB, height, weight, nationality, birthplace and position). Would it be helpful if I added these to the DB (assuming you want to remove all modern players)?

Really? This sounds to good to be true! HaHa
That would be fantastic! Beyond fantastic! Wow!...I say YES

I tried adding the UK players to see what would happen if they're completely unrated. It seems EHM sets their CA and PAs within the range appropriate for the league (or at least for the UK) so it doesn't look like it'll result in a risk of over-rated players (in fact, most are very under-rated).

I think user Animal31 did some testing of unrated players...

For 0 PA, I made 10,000 players

NONE of them got over 61

it MAY have something to tie into rep and CA, but im not sure

[CJ]

Really? This sounds to good to be true! HaHa
That would be fantastic! Beyond fantastic! Wow!...I say YES

I'm with Nino here. That sounds really good!

[archibalduk]

My first thought is no, as....

I`ve actually been going through the DB and moving players/correcting ages; from my Christmas post...

IIRC I was setting CA/PA at "0" when I moved players (and many of these players have few Attributes actually rated)

I wouldn't want to undo all the work you've put in. Off the top of my head, I can:

1. Do nothing at all; or
2. Remove all non-NHL contracted players who have a CA of greater than zero; or
3. Delete all players contracted to a Euro team and any European FAs (thereby leaving the NA leagues intact).

If you and/or CJ let me know how to proceed (if at all) then I'll be happy to do whatever helps / do nothing.

One of the advantages I saw to doing things this was is if I deleted all the 1998-2006 player stats, I'd still have the player stats entered for all the players I "kept"

That's a very good point. For all the players I can provide in a spreadsheet, I will also have a second spreadsheet with all of their career histories. Of course this has the downside in that some of the team/league names in the spreadsheet will need correcting.

Really? This sounds to good to be true! HaHa

Yes! I can get hold of the following information in a spreadsheet for any 1998/99 roster (and any other year if needed):

- First name
- Surname
- DOB
- Height
- Weight
- Birthplace (and birth nation)
- Primary and/or secondary nationality
- Position(s)
- Stick side
- Jersey number
- Entire career history

There are a couple of caveats however:

- Some players are listed more than once (such players are flagged in the spreadsheet) because they played for more than one team that season (so we would need to check these players to see which of the teams he started with).
- Some players don't have a stick side.
- Some players are listed simply as a Forward rather than LW/C/RW.
- Some players don't have a DOB (shouldn't be a problem for the main NA leagues however - it's more the obscure UK leagues!).
- Heights and weights are their current height/weight (or at the point of when they retired) and not as of 1998/99.

This is exactly how I've set up the UK 1998/99 rosters (approx 825 players). I spent a couple of hours yesterday sorting out the duplicate players (i.e. those listed on more than one team) and setting positions for those players who don't have an exact position/stick side set. I just need to correct some birthplaces because they don't exist in the DB (I'll just change them to the nearest city/town that does exist in the DB). And then I have the career histories for all of those players in a spreadsheet ready for a later date.

For 0 PA, I made 10,000 players

NONE of them got over 61

it MAY have something to tie into rep and CA, but im not sure

This is pretty much what I found. In my test (723 players), the CAs ranged from 1 - 67 (the average being 12.4) and the PAs ranged from 10 - 86 (21.6 average).

This is good news because it means we could populate numerous rosters/leagues in the DB without having to rate them right away. I.e. there's no risk of ending up with superstar players whilst those players await their rating.

[nino33]

I wouldn't want to undo all the work you've put in. Off the top of my head, I can:

1. Do nothing at all; or
2. Remove all non-NHL contracted players who have a CA of greater than zero; or
3. Delete all players contracted to a Euro team and any European FAs (thereby leaving the NA leagues intact).

If you and/or CJ let me know how to proceed (if at all) then I'll be happy to do whatever helps / do nothing.

If I understand correctly I honestly think that your first idea's the best idea - leave the NHL "as is" and delete and repopulate all other leagues

While some work will be "lost" the upside is that the work I was doing (populating Major Junior) will be done!
The amount I've completed is a small fraction of what needs to be done (i.e. losing 6 weeks of work to get 4-6 months of work done is a good deal IMO!)
To me the best part is CJ and I will be able to focus on rating players rather than creating the required rosters!

Can you do Staff too?

To me what you're proposing is just fantastic news! This is tremendously helpful, and I'm looking forward to rating players rather than spending so much time on the tedious but necessary roster creation work. This is great/inspiring news!

My insides feel like Charlie from Charlie & the Chocolate Factory - "I've got a golden ticket!"

[CJ]

As Nino is more familiar with those things I trust him to make the right call.

And yes this is fantastic news!

[archibalduk]

If I understand correctly I honestly think that your first idea's the best idea - leave the NHL "as is" and delete and repopulate all other leagues

Sure thing! I'll get started. I already have the Major Junior rosters in a spreadsheet (~1,500 players). I'll get the playable non-NHL NA leagues done this week too.

I'm afraid I can't do non-playing staff.

[CJ]

You sound like you're cheating on a game you don't have cheats to!

[flyfree]

Long time lurker here.

Really enjoying this database ( ezpkns34 version ), I'm currently playing as the Chicago Blackhawks half way into the 00-01 season.
This is my lineup

Daze - Zhamnov - Amonte
Calder - Nylander - Dumont
McAmmond - Madden - Donovan
Probert - W.Primeau - Buchberger

Berard - Rafalski
Brewer - Chelios
J.Allison - Poti

Some things I've noticed
Brad Richards is up for grabs at the start of the game because of no NHL rights
Players history missing for many players, for example Larry Murphy, Paul Coffey etc. which means they are RFA's when the'yre contracts run out.

Will come back with a longer fix-list when back from work.

[CJ]

Some things I've noticed
Brad Richards is up for grabs at the start of the game because of no NHL rights
Players history missing for many players, for example Larry Murphy, Paul Coffey etc. which means they are RFA's when the'yre contracts run out.

Will come back with a longer fix-list when back from work.

Those are known bugs. But thanks anyway.

[Manimal]

, and I'm looking forward to rating players rather than spending so much time on the tedious but necessary roster creation work. This is great/inspiring news!

For me it is the other way around!
I much prefer the roster work than the rating of players

[archibalduk]

While some work will be "lost" the upside is that the work I was doing (populating Major Junior) will be done!
The amount I've completed is a small fraction of what needs to be done (i.e. losing 6 weeks of work to get 4-6 months of work done is a good deal IMO!)

I have just finished removing all players and non-players from the DB. However, I have not removed the Major Junior players with a zero CA (along with, of course, all NHL-contracted players and non-players). So your hard work on adjusting the Major Junior players wasn't in vain. It looks like you had done around 50-60 players in the WHL (as far as I could see).

I'm just running a sim to make sure that the game is still happy following such extensive player/staff deletion. I don't expect there to be a problem but I want to be sure. I have noticed that the Access Violation error has reappeared in the Editor. No doubt this is because of the player/staff removal. I'll look into finding the exact cause of the error (I have a very strong suspicion as to the cause) and will fix the Updater so that the DB can be repaired and prevent the issue from happening again.

In the meantime, I now have all of the Major Junior, AHL, CHL, ECHL and UHL players in a spreadsheet. I just need to sort out the players that have played for more than one team that season. There are some issues I'll need to somehow address:

1. I haven't checked yet, but I'm guessing some or all of the NA leagues in the DB don't yet have all of the 1998 teams moved across yet. I'll need to go through each NA league and get these set up so that I can import all of the players.

2. My spreadsheets do not have stick side data for every single player. For the purposes of importing the data, I propose randomly setting the players missing stick side data. I'll use a ratio of left:right according to the ratio of the players I do have data for (I'm assuming left side will be far more prominent). I can produce a spreadsheet listing all of those players whose stick sides have been randomly set.

3. My spreadsheets do not have positional data for all players. Some players are just listed as a Forward rather than LW/C/RW/etc. How do you want me to import these players? I could leave their positional ratings all set to zero (except the Goalie position which I'll set to 1). Alternatively, I could leave their forward ratings as zero and their defensive ratings as 5 and 8 (5 for the weak side and 8 for the stick side) as is the usual defensive rating for forwards.

[archibalduk]

I have noticed that the Access Violation error has reappeared in the Editor. No doubt this is because of the player/staff removal. I'll look into finding the exact cause of the error (I have a very strong suspicion as to the cause) and will fix the Updater so that the DB can be repaired and prevent the issue from happening again.

I have found the cause of the error. I have fixed it and it won't be an issue again once I release the next version of the Updater (I will release the next version asap so that we don't get this issue again).

This isn't an issue for the 1998 DB, but it is a serious issue for the TBL Rosters. The cause of the error is because the Updater wasn't updating the Favourite and Disliked Staff ID numbers when using the DB Optimisation function. This results in the Favourite and Disliked Staff settings becoming completely scrambled. In some cases, the ID numbers pointed to no longer exist and this is why the Editor encounters an Access Violation error.

I have fixed the DB Optimisation function so that it now correctly updates the Favourite and Disliked Staff data. However, for databases such as the TBL Rosters and the 1998 DB, any such data is irreparably scrambled. The Updater will fix the error when you next save the DB using the Updater (the Updater will now automatically apply the fix each time you load a DB). However, all it can do is erase any erroneous data. It cannot restore it to its former data. Thus we're going to have to erase all Favourite and Disliked Staff data (I will add this option to the Updater before I release the upcoming version).

However, all is not lost because once I have the Club updating function working, we'll be able to transfer the Favourite and Disliked data from unaffected DBs (e.g. an older version of the TBL Rosters or the original rosters) to the TBL Rosters, etc. So it will be possible to restore the data in the long run. It's just right now we'll need to erase this data. In the case of the 1998 DB this is not really an issue seeing as we essentially want this data to be erased so that we can get the Favourite/Disliked data as it was in 1998/99 rather than how it is now.

[CJ]

Awesome work Archi!!

Those forwards you're talking about maybe it's just best to leave them at zero. And their defense position at 5&8 like you said.

[nino33]

I have just finished removing all players and non-players from the DB. However, I have not removed the Major Junior players with a zero CA (along with, of course, all NHL-contracted players and non-players). So your hard work on adjusting the Major Junior players wasn't in vain. It looks like you had done around 50-60 players in the WHL (as far as I could see).

The players I was looking to create are still in the staff_new file that I never actually imported. Those that were 0/0 were players I'd pulled from wherever they were in 2006 and put back into Junior where they were in 1998 (I adjusted their age and made their CA/PA 0)...most of the work I'd done (as of last Christmas) was on removing all Major Junior players that didn't belong there (i.e. 100% of the Major Junior players you deleted are 1998 Major Junior Players - this is the work I knew would have to be redone, but I figured it was well worth it)

1. I haven't checked yet, but I'm guessing some or all of the NA leagues in the DB don't yet have all of the 1998 teams moved across yet. I'll need to go through each NA league and get these set up so that I can import all of the players.

I think all Lazion did was the NHL, and then some "future players" in Major Junior/etc.
CJ completed the NHL work, added more draftees and more...I added the "kids leagues" and then started on Major Junior
I don't think (until now!) that the 1998 database was a "complete world" but instead I think it was just an NHL update with some future draftees added in http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 116&t=9137

I can produce a spreadsheet listing all of those players whose stick sides have been randomly set.

That'll work. The Guides I have (NHL, WHL, OHL and I think maybe AHL/ECHL too) will have stick side (as well as player 1998 player weight)

3. My spreadsheets do not have positional data for all players. Some players are just listed as a Forward rather than LW/C/RW/etc. How do you want me to import these players? I could leave their positional ratings all set to zero (except the Goalie position which I'll set to 1). Alternatively, I could leave their forward ratings as zero and their defensive ratings as 5 and 8 (5 for the weak side and 8 for the stick side) as is the usual defensive rating for forwards.

I think "leave their forward ratings as zero and their defensive ratings as 5 and 8 (5 for the weak side and 8 for the stick side)" sounds best.
Can you provide a list of affected players? I was working on preparing a Manimal Research Sheet for the 1998 WHL last night, and had a number of players without a position, but a bit of extra research and I found positions


Thanks very much for all your efforts Arch!

[nino33]

I have found the cause of the error. I have fixed it and it won't be an issue again once I release the next version of the Updater (I will release the next version asap so that we don't get this issue again).

Excellent!