Feedback on the Trade AI

sao.phim · Post by **sao.phim** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:50 am

In my first Flyers season Bozak was 33+34 in 78 games in mediocre Leafs team, in +/- he was second best with +33 in his team, scored more goals then JVR. AvR 7.66, sh% 16.4. There are not bad numbers. Agree with your statement about Malkin etc, but Bozak is not so bad in this game.

Post by **batdad** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:22 am

Better report that in the rosters thread. Clearly Bozek is out to lunch in terms of ratings.

price31 · Post by **price31** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:37 pm

Yeah there is defiantly an issue with trading now. Just started a new season tried to make a couple of deals where both side where happy and got turned down. added more and still got turned down which is usauly highly unlikely. and just for the fun of it i offered all of my 1st and 2nd round picks along with Ryan Nugent Hopkins for John Tavares and got turned down ???. big problems.

Lazion · Post by **Lazion** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:51 pm

AI trade offers are weird sometimes. Florida offered 2nd round pick for Voracek and 2nd round pick. Nucks offered 4th round pick for Leca, 4th round pick and 5th round pick.

AI also offers really bad trades for them.. Arizona offered Domi for T.Van Riemsdyk.. Domi = 1st line potential 20yo and TVR = 3rd line talent 24yo.

saberhagen83 · Post by **saberhagen83** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:09 pm

Yep I think trading got broken in latest patch. Trying to get a D-man to my Panthers team and I offered Jokinen to all. Best offer came in from Ottawa I thought with a D-man that was good enough and would save us some cap as well. So I accept their offer, only for them to come back again with a ridiculous counter offer. Trying to snatch one of our best young prospects plus a pick for that D-man (no more than a top 6) and a bad prospect and low picks. Thankfully Toronto then waived a D-man that was quite similair, so think I'll take him and try to offload Jokinen again to another team...if it works that is. Already had something similar happen in pre-season. Third time's the charm...or so the saying goes.

lemming3k · Post by **lemming3k** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:40 am

Completed my first trade.

Kapanen + Ebbett from Pens for Rights to Maxim Letunov, David Moss, and 4th round pick 2019.

If Letunov had the right potential it'd probably be ok, but think that was a steal.

Didn't even want Ebbett, but when it mentioned unbalancing their rosters I figured what they meant was it would add a player to a 23 man roster and they'd have to waive someone, so I threw him in and they accepted.
Now if that's what it always means that opens up a world of trades...

sluice · Post by **sluice** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:25 pm

lemming3k wrote:Completed my first trade.

Kapanen + Ebbett from Pens for Rights to Maxim Letunov, David Moss, and 4th round pick 2019.

If Letunov had the right potential it'd probably be ok, but think that was a steal.

Didn't even want Ebbett, but when it mentioned unbalancing their rosters I figured what they meant was it would add a player to a 23 man roster and they'd have to waive someone, so I threw him in and they accepted.
Now if that's what it always means that opens up a world of trades...

From the Pens perspective, this is a bad trade. You just can't trade Kapenen, if you are the Penguins...
Unless I'm missing something and Letunov is highly overated in the game?

Post by **Peter_Doherty** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:51 pm

In the game that's a horrible trade for Pens, IRL Letunov is a good prospect and imo Kapanen is overrated so it's not that bad IRL

lemming3k · Post by **lemming3k** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:56 pm

Yep, IRL wouldn't be too bad, but not good in the game as Letunov is a 0 prospect.

Of course according to my crazy Yote assistant this was a really bad trade for us! Can't remember what intially the Pens said they'd seriously consider - Moss+4th for Kapanen? Might not have needed Letunov. After all the other trades I've tried that one got through.
Sometimes the AI seems harsh, other times it's crazy.

Post by **batdad** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:04 pm

0 star prospect in the trade screen? Or 0 star when everyone scouts him. There is a big difference. In the trade screen it is just what your AGM thinks the other team values him at at that moment, and how he values him. Kind of a combination. If he is injured, just recently signed by you, or just recently waived and acquired then he will not be desired by your AGM or any other AGM at the moment. It takes a bit of time for that to come back.

If it is in the scout screen...have more guys scout him and see where his value is. THen....maybe he needs to have ratings looked at.

comatose · Post by **comatose** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:47 pm

I think trade deadline in game is too much like HF boards; make a trade to say you've made a trade.

AI should behave better. In playoff spot, trade to improve roster/depth, primarily from futures/picks. Out of playoffs, sell off UFAs, usually for futures/picks.

Right now, Big Buff gets traded with Jets in playoff spot, Keith traded to Leafs when they're 3rd last, Landeskog, Hall and Skinner have all been traded on deadline.

There needs to be perhaps a bit more input on 'we're never going to trade him' or 'it'd need a boatload'. Landeskog would never be moved, Keith probably not either, etc.

lemming3k · Post by **lemming3k** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:59 pm

batdad wrote:0 star prospect in the trade screen? Or 0 star when everyone scouts him. There is a big difference. In the trade screen it is just what your AGM thinks the other team values him at at that moment, and how he values him. Kind of a combination. If he is injured, just recently signed by you, or just recently waived and acquired then he will not be desired by your AGM or any other AGM at the moment. It takes a bit of time for that to come back.

If it is in the scout screen...have more guys scout him and see where his value is. THen....maybe he needs to have ratings looked at.

Well I was being figurative more than literal - he has been scouted by 4 scouts and 3 have come back with limited potential (won't play in the NHL). One did say potential 3rd liner though. I'll have the check the scouts screen, I'm still figuring out the filters and everything! I find the UI a bit unusual but I'm from a classic football manager background.

Post by **batdad** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:09 pm

No that is fine. If all your scouts showing that he is lim potential, then that is what he probably is. But .... the other part is in real life just because someone is drafted/ signed as FA...to the NHL it does not necessarily mean the upside is much higher than that. Maybe it is in this case, but one never knows.

lemming3k · Post by **lemming3k** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:57 pm

batdad wrote:No that is fine. If all your scouts showing that he is lim potential, then that is what he probably is. But .... the other part is in real life just because someone is drafted/ signed as FA...to the NHL it does not necessarily mean the upside is much higher than that. Maybe it is in this case, but one never knows.

Well that's true, I'm expecting a few prospects won't reach their potential. Hopefully I'll have enough though.

DCDC · Post by **DCDC** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:25 am

I have been able to complete a few trades but ran into the same issue with Chicago having Patrick Kane on the block, I know who would have thought.
I tried every mail I received to get a trade with their exact wants and nothing happened, they ended up putting him on waivers and I got him for nothing, so maybe a little patience and a waiver score will be fine.

lemming3k · Post by **lemming3k** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:46 pm

krownroyal83 wrote:I've been noticing lately that a team will put a player on the trading block and when you try and make a deal with them they always come back with something like "this trade will unbalance our roster" or something to that degree. Even if you're only offering them picks. It's clearly some kind of bug.

Are you offering them any players as well? This mostly seems to happen when there are more players going in one direction than the other - it puts a team above/below the roster limits so the trade can't go through - particularly if it'll be their 24th roster player as the AI can't seem to analyse what to do about waivers in that scenario.

I'm having a lot more luck with my trading now, although annoyingly the AI refuses far far more of my fairer offers than my random rubbish.

Koekenbakker · Post by **Koekenbakker** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:41 pm

Ducks just traded Kesler + 3rd for a 3rd+4th to Avalanche...

elrune1988 · Post by **elrune1988** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:17 am

batdad wrote:No that is fine. If all your scouts showing that he is lim potential, then that is what he probably is. But .... the other part is in real life just because someone is drafted/ signed as FA...to the NHL it does not necessarily mean the upside is much higher than that. Maybe it is in this case, but one never knows.

Maybe it is different in EHM: EA. I am still trying to figure this out, but I have found general rule of thumb is to not listen to your scouts. I look at mental attributes and other aspects. but the best player I ever drafted and developed was an American I drafted in the 5th round. He spent four years in college and one season in the AHL. Then he was an annual 100 point, 60 assist player on my team. All of my scouts had at least 15 DET and ADA and were 20's for JPP/JPA.

krownroyal83 · Post by **krownroyal83** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:32 pm

One of the weirder trades i've seen is at the deadline. Edmonton who is going to miss the playoffs, trades Vanek to Buffalo who are just barely in the playoffs for a player by the name of Maxim Lazarev. Who is that you ask? He's the run away leader for rookie of the year scoring 60 pts in 73 games so far and is a +18. Vanek who is 33 and making 6.5 mil per season has scored 38 points in 74 games and is on the decline. It makes total sense for Edmonton to move Vanek but it makes no sense for Buffalo to trade their future star player and possibly franchise player for Vanek. How does the AI evaluate a player? Lazarev has been a surprise since he was taken 45th over all. Is the AI only factoring in that he was a 2nd round pick and not factoring in his point production. This is a trade you would never see in the NHL.

Post by **batdad** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:24 pm

There are lots of trades in this game that make no sense. So many variables in the AI that make them do weird things. Those way out of the playoffs, move too many guys who are still young enough to make a difference, those in the playoffs go too hard and give up too much future for the higher rep player...similar to the Buffalo Edmonton deal you speak of.

However, one point I do not think has been mentioned enough here....the AI in EHM EA is WAY WAY WAY better than the AI was in EHM 2007 at trading. 2000% better. Still some ways to take advantage of it, such as at deadline and draft day, but it is still so much better than it was.

krownroyal83 · Post by **krownroyal83** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:32 pm

batdad wrote:There are lots of trades in this game that make no sense. So many variables in the AI that make them do weird things. Those way out of the playoffs, move too many guys who are still young enough to make a difference, those in the playoffs go too hard and give up too much future for the higher rep player...similar to the Buffalo Edmonton deal you speak of.

However, one point I do not think has been mentioned enough here....the AI in EHM EA is WAY WAY WAY better than the AI was in EHM 2007 at trading. 2000% better. Still some ways to take advantage of it, such as at deadline and draft day, but it is still so much better than it was.

You're right the AI is a lot better at trading in this game but i mean it's been 8 years so it should be

I'm hoping that the AI continues to get better. Hopefully someday the AI is just as intelligent as a human player. That would be amazing.

Post by **batdad** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:16 pm

No, they did not work at all on this game for 7.5 years at least, so it is more like 6 months at the most.

krownroyal83 · Post by **krownroyal83** » Fri May 01, 2015 9:57 am

batdad wrote:No, they did not work at all on this game for 7.5 years at least, so it is more like 6 months at the most.

You make a great point.

madball1982 · Post by **madball1982** » Sun May 03, 2015 10:09 am

I've found so far the old "They're on the IR, I can get them cheap" trick doesn't work anymore.

I remember loving taking the piddle out of the AI with that, like Colton Orr + 2nd Rnd pick for Malkin, because he's on the IR for 6mths. Things like that.

Post by **CeeBee** » Sun May 03, 2015 4:33 pm

I'm in season 2 with 7.3 pre-season db and the 15.2b version running. The first season seemed normal for trades but this season( about 1 month before deadline) about 90% of all trade offers are either one or 2 4th round picks. doesn't seem to matter who I try to trade (Santorelli, Zubrus, Weise, higgins, Hansen, bieksa, Markstrom, or all but the top line guys. Trying 2 player combo's is the same. If I get 16 offers back on a trade 14 or 15 will be 4th round picks. Used to be you would get mostly a bunch of the same scrubs on every offer but now it's the 4th pick disease it seems.

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