Injuries and Fatigue in EHM:EA

elrune1988 · Post by **elrune1988** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:07 am

How dare you sir.

LOL, had to be said.

lemming3k · Post by **lemming3k** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:53 pm

Are there warnings about fatigued players like in FM?
I'm half way through the season and most of my team has played every game, including goalie. I thought I'd have to rest him for at least a few games by now.

Post by **batdad** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:10 pm

Game lets you make the choice. Not like FM. But if you overplay guys they get hurt.

lemming3k · Post by **lemming3k** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:16 pm

I assume that's based on their condition % then? I can't see any other indicator that would show whether they should get hurt?

Post by **batdad** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:49 pm

Overuse. Period. No goalie plays 82 games. No dman plays 35 min for 82 games, no forward plays 30 minutes for 82 games. Reality of ice time is like that.....more used, more tired, more likely to get hurt. Simple as that. You want to use your goalie all 82 games go ahead, but don't expect him to stay healthy in playoffs and win you the cup.

Post by **Peter_Doherty** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:50 pm

When your players don't get to 100% between games you should probably look at playing them less, that's my cardinal rule atleast...

Post by **batdad** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:04 pm

Even if they do reach 100% overuse can lead to injury. Especially with goalies. I rarely have a goalie who does not get back to 100% for the next day, but I rarely play them in back to back games save in the playoffs.

Post by **Peter_Doherty** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:11 pm

Yeah, same here, never play them in back-to-backs unless both games are just too important and my backup sucks...

SirMichaelJordan · Post by **SirMichaelJordan** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:40 pm

Fatigue is poor in this game I can play anyone for 82 games (even goalies) and still have them play during the playoffs...

Rarely have to deal with injuries, player's don't tired enough after games and most of the fatigue comes from practice schedule which is a none factor if you know what you are doing with practice setup.

Post by **batdad** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:27 pm

I think it is so humorous that some people are saying

1. Tone down the injuries
2. Crank up the injuries

Shows that people just have different ways of playing, and the game takes different things from different people and shows the depth of the game so well.

Mason has played 52,53 and so far 30/40 for me in my three seasons. In the two playoffs he played 17 in each on his way to the cup. He has yet to get injured.

Sometimes you get lucky and can play the goalie all 82 and all playoffs in this game, not saying some don't. Just saying...that it is playing with fire.

As for players going all 82 and all playoffs, that is fairly normal unless you are giving them 30 minutes (d) or 25(f) of ice time every game game in and game out. It happens alot that skaters do not get injured. Not abnormal.....

IN EHM 2007...it was a guarantee almost if you played guys 82 games at any position, even for regular ice time they would get hurt in the playoffs. At least now we do not have that. That is unrealistic. Yeah should it happen sometimes---yes. And it does.

SirMichaelJordan · Post by **SirMichaelJordan** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:21 am

In real life it is not common to have your core let alone your entire team play in 82 games like I can in EHM.

Looking at games played for other teams controlled by the AI you'll also see the trend of guys playing all season, look at a team in real life and its way off.

Post by **Peter_Doherty** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:27 am

I think they need to tweak injuries alot, there should be more injuries, especially more of those minor sprains and stuff that keeps you sidelined for a week or two...

lemming3k · Post by **lemming3k** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:08 pm

batdad wrote:Overuse. Period. No goalie plays 82 games. No dman plays 35 min for 82 games, no forward plays 30 minutes for 82 games. Reality of ice time is like that.....more used, more tired, more likely to get hurt. Simple as that. You want to use your goalie all 82 games go ahead, but don't expect him to stay healthy in playoffs and win you the cup.

Whilst I agree that's how it works in real life, I'm interested in how that translates into the game when there's no indication other than 'condition' and this seems to be 100% all the time. It doesn't seem like the game has any mechanism for 'overuse' but if it does(and it should), then it needs to show it.

I don't look at my calendar after every game and meticulously plan who is being 'overused' based on their ice time etc etc.
I rely on an indication such as condition that a guy needs a rest and I rest them. FM was always get with messages about fatigue and you could see clearly from the condition levels dropping below 90 that players needed a break.

Post by **batdad** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:57 pm

WHy should the game give absolutely everything away for the user? YOu have to play it and figure it out. DO you risk playing guys a ton and see if they get hurt? Do you play too little and miss playoffs because scared of injury or want to keep them fresh?

I mean would you like Riz to make your breakfast for you too? ]

The whole idea and concept of this game is to be immersed in it. To be the GM. Do you think real life coaches and GM's are not immersed completely in their calendar and checking to see how much guys are playing? Of course they are.

Sorry do not want it given away. THere are notes that appear on your player in his profile if you are using him too much that he needs a rest.

Again for the millionth time folks--this is not EA SPORTS.

Koekenbakker · Post by **Koekenbakker** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:37 pm

Batdad. I really like your advice but can you please be a little less negative or arrogant towards people who haven't played the game that much or are new. They can't help that they don't have as much knowledge so no reason to act like they're dumb and think this game is ea's NHL.

umwoz · Post by **umwoz** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:39 pm

It seems to me like Early Access punishes you for this less than 2007 did. In real life most teams will have around 4-5 players on the entire roster that play 82 games. In my experience it's not uncommon to have 10+ guys play all 82 in game.

EDIT: I should say... I don't think the solution is to crank up injuries, I think it's to hamper player performance.

Whether they are actually doing this in game, who knows? I think it's silly to think that this should be completely hidden from our eyes though. It would be nice to have a "condition report" like we do for injuries from the coaches. If a GM wants to know if his guy is being overused he'll ask the coach who will have a pretty good idea of how that player is holding up.

Koekenbakker · Post by **Koekenbakker** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:46 pm

Also we've got people playing this game who don't follow hockey so they wouldn't know what a normal goalie or forward plays in real life. In soccer it is common for star players to play every game to the end if they've got no injuries.

Post by **batdad** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:29 pm

Koekenbakker wrote:Batdad. I really like your advice but can you please be a little less negative or arrogant towards people who haven't played the game that much or are new. They can't help that they don't have as much knowledge so no reason to act like they're dumb and think this game is ea's NHL.

Not acting like they are dumb. Giving them advice to check around and learn on their own, and when people complain a management game is too complex and too hard...well that is silly. That is what the game is about. Also when people want everything handed to them in a nicely wrapped package in life....and are used to getting it...well sorry but that is not what I believe this game is about.

For example I have given plenty of tactics advice all over the place, plenty of resting advice all over the place...and then we get a new thread on Fatigue for no reason. When I First came here I read every single thread and every single post to get to know the lay of the land. I did not jump in and create new threads and break rules and complain that the rules are not clear. I read em and I followed them and I Found them...regardless of how the site was organized.

I came in with respect for the others here, and respect for the admin and owner of the site.

Plus I came in wanting to learn about the game on my own and the breadth of the game on my own. I did not want to get everything handed to me like many people seem to want. And you may not be one of those, and neither may some others....but have a read. The answers are all over the place.

Still his call how he wants to use his players, just do not come back whining when half your core is injured in the Stanley Cup playoffs. Maybe they will be, maybe they won't.... but the more you play someone the better the chance of it.

Fatigue is relative in this game. You may not see a guy who is at 100% on game day as being tired and you may not see a guy at 95% as being tired. But if you check the 95 player page....he may very well be. If the 100 guy has great stamina and strength and goes into game and is getting 6,7,6,6 for game ratings...guess what? He is tired and you are risking him getting hurt. Simple to tell. Play the game and learn its ins and outs.

Don't need it handed to us on silver platter. This game should not be a game where everything is handed to us up front. Should be a game to learn things ALL THE TIME. Even after playing 10000 times. I am still discovering things (even about 2007) why should I just hand it all to you?

This is not necessarily a game for those with short attention spans who just want to BEAT the game....it is something that can be played and enjoyed in zillions of ways while still learning new things over and over and over. Play it, read here....tons of stuff.

Not going to line it all up for you and give you the way to beat the game.

A real manager in real life knows exactly when a player is tired? no....not unless they see them play and they are tired. So why would it be different in EHM?

lemming3k · Post by **lemming3k** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:57 pm

batdad wrote:WHy should the game give absolutely everything away for the user? YOu have to play it and figure it out. DO you risk playing guys a ton and see if they get hurt? Do you play too little and miss playoffs because scared of injury or want to keep them fresh?

I mean would you like Riz to make your breakfast for you too? ]

The whole idea and concept of this game is to be immersed in it. To be the GM. Do you think real life coaches and GM's are not immersed completely in their calendar and checking to see how much guys are playing? Of course they are.

Sorry do not want it given away. THere are notes that appear on your player in his profile if you are using him too much that he needs a rest.

Again for the millionth time folks--this is not EA SPORTS.

Seriously that bit in bold is exactly what I'm talking about - so you're now saying there is feedback in the game but we have to go looking for it, well that's great, it needs to be there and it needs to be easy to find.

And as for the rest of your attitude sure, why bother with ratings either? Heck don't even show condition at all or have assistants or training reports/feedback - just make everyone watch every second of each game and hunt through every player page to micromanage everything so they can figure out how a game that is not like real life functions Because that'll be a whole heap of fun and result in a commercially viable game that could be released year after year instead of disappearing for almost a decade.

Sorry if you don't like there crowd that thinks a game needs visible feedback because it's not real life and being a GM is a full time job. I have one of those and want a game to be fun, not spending hours just looking for information that should be freely visible and would be to a real life GM.

Frankly I'd like to see the game get a full release and be back next year so it can get a fanbase like FM - but I think some of you would prefer to be an elite group supporting an unknown game from the past.
Oh and I don't come from an EA SPORTS background since they screw every game they touch, so you can quit trying to be so pious you just sound like an ass.

Koekenbakker · Post by **Koekenbakker** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:14 pm

Again Batdad, great advice but with a negative tone. If you don't like people coming in here who have a pretty simple question but don't have time to read 500 pages of old threads (and probably don't know their answer is in there), don't answer their question, just ignore it or simple revert to something like: "good question, in the tactics thread (link) we've discussed this earlier, you should have a look".

As for Lemming: I've played for 6 years and didn't know this until the answer above. Thanks for asking a great question!

umwoz · Post by **umwoz** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:28 pm

I think the answer is somewhere in the middle of what you guys are suggesting. Having everything be cryptic is certainly not the answer, if your player is not performing well how are you to know whether it's because of tactics or because of fatigue? Should I guess at one... wait 5 games for a reliable sample and then see that it did nothing? If I was a real GM I would probably just ask my coaching staff and trainers if the player seems a step behind.(judging potential/ability attribute for coach)

That said, I don't want a graphic on every player page that says "player is tired, rest him". My suggestion would be to either fix the condition stat so that it accurately reflects the wear and tear of a season, or to give an option to ask your coach about a players condition and have him give valuable feedback.

This is a great game already, but it needs work. EHM EA didn't come back to give us a new GUI on the same old game, it came back so it can evolve into the product that SI had in mind a decade ago. It's going to change, but complexity is what makes this game tick and I would hate to see them value accessibility over depth.

Post by **batdad** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:58 pm

Gentlemen, I believe that you need to go back and have a look at the stuff I have posted. THere is a graphic that clearly shows when a player is tired and needs a rest. I have told you where it is.

Now you need to stop with the personal garbage and move on. You don't like my style and the way I post. I get it. Too bad, so sad.

There are things that in this game are not perfect. There will always be things not perfect and not to everyone's liking. Such is life...every game is like that. Every part of life is like that.

And like I have said I learn something new every time I play this game. So cool that you do too after playing for 6 years.

as I have said I have no issue giving advice...have done it a zillion times. It is all over here. I have no issue helping people...I have done it a zillion times. I do not want the game to be an elite group ... as long as I enjoy the game I could care less how many others play it as long as it is enough to make the game have more and more versions and more and more work.

But then again...you would actually have to read my posts to realize I am not being negative about you or the game. I am explaining the way the game is. Exciting, VERY VERY DEEP and lots to learn. And handing out advice in a strict line of how to beat the game is not possible (Well I Suppose it is in one way), because there are several thousand ways to do well in this game.

But the personal stuff needs to stop. Get it...don't like my posts...don't read em...don't comment on them...don't deal with it.

You will note I do not call out anyone personally save for when they break forum rules. I comment, and if there is a person in question...I say not calling them out personally just painting a general picture.

Now to get back on the topic of THIS THREAD...as it is supposed to be about rest. NHL and elite hockey players are CERTAINLY capable of playing 82 games, NHL Goalies are not. That is standard knowledge. Sure there are people who do not know hockey here...and I explained it to them that they should not play their goalie all 82 games and expect to have them healthy for playoffs. If they do...they got lucky. Period.

If someone can show me about 5 seasons in a row where goalies play all 82 games in EHM and then all playoff games en route to winning the Stanley Cup...then I will believe that RIz et al need to tweak the game and injuries.

At this point in season 3 in my game I have no problem having injuries over the course of time. Very realistic.

Lost Schenn 3 times twice for 2 months, Lost VOracek 5 times for 10 days each, lost GIroux once, Lost SImmonds once, Lost Connauton twice, lost Weircioch twice.lost Mason once for 10 days, lost Zepp twice once for 10 once for two weeks. Lost MaCdonald twice, lost STreit twice.

Have seen the goalies who play a ton get bad injuries--Quick, Pavelec, Rask, Dubnyk, Smith, Lundquist to name 6 guys I saw news items on.

IN THREE YEARS.

So yeah the game does not spell out the injury possibility, and when asked I did. you overplay em....you risk getting injuries. That simple. Same as always.

Imagine if you go into a game in the NHL with your top line not able to be at 100% fit and ready to play. And this happened over and over in the game. Wonder how realistic you would feel that was? Sure they may not be as fresh as normal, but does not mean not fit and ready to play...when the game says 100%.

I have had lots of back to back games where my top line guys for game two are showing as only 93-97. I have had Mason and Zepp show as 95-97 percent. The game does at times show you the guys are not 100% fit and ready to play. But...it should not and never will show that after 3 days without games the guys are not ready at 100%. Why? Because these guys are pro hockey players, not football or soccer players where they need a week off in between games to get back to 100% match fit.

Anyway...we are now back on topic, and we can cut the personal disagreement you have with my posting style. You cannot read tone into a post online gentlemen. Sure I am tired of answering the same question over and over and over. But who else is answering them correctly? not many....

Again...for new people...read around you will find tons of advice on this game, and no it will not all work perfectly for you, and no the game is not perfect. But I do not want it to be too easy, and you should not either or you will not get the 10 years of enjoyment out of it like I have.

You can play the game in speed ways, you can be immersed in GM detail. Your choice...doesn't matter which way you want it to be. I have no personal feeling about how you want to do that. Unfortunately, quick sim is just that...quick sim and not as much detail is available. and you may miss stuff if you do not go into the detail aspects like looking at your player page after every game.

Did you know that in your player page if you check it after a game, each time there is a possibility the player screen will show you that guy "has a possible injury"? and if you practice that player that day...he will get injured??

You guys ask for more easy details and say you do not have time for the game....well maybe then you should not play it? What does that have to do with anything? This game is designed to be immersed and take time....if you do not have the time....then don't try and make the game easier for those who do have the time and want to play it the hard way. find another easier game to play.

That is my last comment on this and I suggest it be yours as well guys. No negativity here, just laying out the facts about this thread and what the conversation is. The facts as they are. Some guys do not want to take the time to play this game in ultimate detail. So be it....that is fine. But don't wreck the game for some of us who do by asking for it to be simpler. I cannot say it enough...it is not EA Sports. It is EHM MANAGEMENT game. We want a challenge, not easy. Many of us want to look around and not sure what we have.

you know what? Look around and see how many guys actually do ask for not knowing the attributes of each player and only be going on stats. It is why in this version Riz actually added in a hide the attributes option. I am definitely going to try that. Sounds great to go only on scout reports, and actual stats and game performances to judge a player. I would even love it if game rating was gone. Makes it more challenging.

BrooklynIslander · Post by **BrooklynIslander** » Thu May 07, 2015 5:06 pm

Injuries have always seemed way too low, but the most ridiculous thing just happened to me in a season. I went from pre-season, to winning the Stanley Cup with merely two injuries the entire simulation, one to a fourth liner, and the other to a 3rd pairing defensemen. The fourth liner missed 10 days, the defensemen a month, and both were in November. From December onward, not a single injury. If I didn't force myself to take a player out here and there to give a prospect a game or two, I would have had 16 skaters play 82 games plus an entire slate of playoffs to winning the Cup. All practice settings were normal.

Can the game at least give a slider on this issue? I recognize "gamers" don't want a ton of injuries, but I want realism. There was nothing realistic about what happened here.

BrooklynIslander · Post by **BrooklynIslander** » Thu May 07, 2015 5:13 pm

I also have yet, after 5 seasons on my laptop and 2 on my desktop, have had a goalie miss significant time.

saberhagen83 · Post by **saberhagen83** » Thu May 07, 2015 6:10 pm

It's odd how things can be so different from one game to another.

Myself, I think injuries are on a nice level. I usually have multiple few days to a couple of weeks injuries during my seasons. I'm currently up at december in 5th season and just recently had one player out for 10 days, came back and re-injured himself for another few days. Think the previous season 2 of my players played the full 82 games, a few missed 1 or 2 from either injuries, fatigue or me just giving others a shot. And a few players missed several games because of at least a 7 day injury. Eichel got inured just before the playoffs and missed most of it as a result. I even have a few injuries happen during games. My goalies though don't get injuried to much, think it has happened once.

Couple of seasons ago I had a long term injury x2 to one of my top 4 defenceman. I can't imagine having more injuries cause then I would have to tinker around like a madman.

I suppose it could depend on how the teams tactics are set? I like playing fast paced hard pressing game. Might lead to more injuries perhaps?

Injuries and Fatigue in EHM:EA

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