The Idea of a "Soft Cap" on Attributes

[umwoz]

Thought this would be an interesting discussion for those with some experience in this franchise. Not sure if it has been brought up before but someone mentioned it on HF and it caught my attention.

Basically the idea is that 20 is the max for the attribute, but players that are truly exceptional in an area can get slightly above that cap. It wouldn't be commonplace, with only a handful of players attaining it but it may make the true "superstars" actually different from the rest.

example(Deking): Sidney Crosby: 18, Alex Ovechkin: 20, Evgeni Malkin: 21, Claude Giroux: 22, Pavel Datsyuk: 22, Patrick Kane: 23

The true power may be in the mental attributes where the elite hockey sense guys can get above a 20 in anticipation or creativity.

What do you guys think?

[batdad]

Been there, done that. Not needed. Why? Because it is arbirtary what number you assign to a player for his abilities. If 20 is the top/elite guy...to use an example Weber slapshot you just slot everyone else in under that number. It does not matter what number you give it. There are subtle graduations in each number. One guy with a 20 may have a better slap shot than another guy with a 20 in the same thing. So the game already does that. Do not need superpowered guys...they are already there. This is a reality management game, not a superpower game where you achieve easter egg super star status. Maybe the puck should have a tail on it or we could press a button that says the team goes super charged?

Nah....not necessary as basically already implemented in the game with the numbers as they already are.

[ROHM]

Not necessary at all, Football Manager doesn't have that and it works pretty well, that would complicate things more. Just give the best players a 20 and work from there.

[bruins72]

I understand where umwoz is coming from. While the numbers are arbitrary, it would mean more if the game didn't give out as many 18, 19, and 20's.

[Alessandro]

I understand where umwoz is coming from. While the numbers are arbitrary, it would mean more if the game didn't give out as many 18, 19, and 20's.

I'm sure that Riz is aware and will have a look. The idea of a soft cap is, with all the due respect, quise unuseful and not needed because of batdad said. Batdad, often we agree, maybe we should try and yell together?

[batdad]

Nah alessandro---You are not cloud shaped enough. Look too red with some weird scribble on you ...Posschia?...is that a relative of Porsche? Heh.


Again I do get where they come from when this idea comes up. But it is totally unneeded when you pay attention to probability and statistics. There is no end point to it if you go this route in the game. No one is above perfect and 20 is perfect.

Yes there are issues (although I have not seen them myself) with alot of players getting attributes that are too high for what they should get. But that does not mean you add on attribute potential numbers higher than the set we have. It means the game people and the db people need to work together to get those numbers that are too high down.

Silly to add in super powers when they are already there. The 20 slap shot and 20 skating is a superpower, jsut right now with a game IN DEVELOPMENT ...we have too many getting those numbers apparently, so it needs to get fixed up.

Also, who is to say that someone cannot train guys up to that level and develop them to that level, because they are good at the game. IT is funny all this talk about high ratings, when development in this version of EHM is so much harder than in EHM 2007 where I Could make a guy look all green by age 19 or 20. Now I cannot do that, yet there are people very concerned about top level player attributes.

And as Alessandro said....Riz is looking into it.

[bruins72]

Don't you think 20's were too attainable in the older version of the game too?

[batdad]

Yeah in alot of cases, but they stopped development of that game. Can change it now.

[Hypnotist]

TURN IT UP TO 11!!

[batdad]

TURN IT UP TO 11!!

This amp goes to 11!

Exactly my point....Spinal tap of hockey, or what was that arcade game that did stuff like that? It was 3 on 3 or 4 on 4.

[lemming3k]

TURN IT UP TO 11!!

That was exactly my thought when reading this idea!
It would be pointless to change the top number, but if you want to see a better spread in numbers use stats up to 99, it makes the differences in levels a lot clearer.

[Koekenbakker]

I'd actually prefer a lower cap on some of the attributes depending on player role or something

[nino33]

I'd actually prefer a low cap on some of the attributes depending on player role or something

I think that's what supposed to happen actually, and hopefully we'll see this as things get tweaked in the coming updates

I've long felt that players often ended up overrated, and that 15-18 should be the "good to great" rating for the top players (and 19/20 should be rare)

[Obalobex]

the way the game generates new players they frequently end up with like 6 or 7 20s, 6 or 7 5s and they're just The Best Passer Of All Time or The Best Checker Of All Time and that's it. its weird how cookie cutter the template is for the best players

[Peter_Doherty]

I would much rather just that the DB-makers redistributes the attributes and tones them down a bit, 20 acceleration for example should be reserved only for Hagelin and maybe a few (then i really mean a few 2-3) others while 20 wristshot really only should be on Ovechkin, attributes are just too top heavy so after a few years the 20-24 year old (when game starts) studs have developed a bit there are so many 20s out there, way too many. A player like Seguin is fast, but he will never ever be as fast as Hagelin, yet in the game he will get to 19-19-19+ (acc, speed, agi) every single time, that's just not realistic

[batdad]

Yes Oboalobex---Riz is aware of the issue with the new gens, and is apparently looking into it, and that way the dbase guys can try and make things work a little better with the guys in the game, and hopefully it will translate to keep ratios the same as time goes on and the game continues to be developed.

And yeah. Peter...that is what Nino said. Really...just have to get things working right in the game. All in good time as the volunteers in the database work move forward.

We all get that you think Hagelin is the fastest player in the world. No need to repeat it over and over and over. It is growing a bit tiresome seeing your name and then Hagelin in every post. Mason Raymond is just as fast. Just he falls more often. Speed kills and sometimes kills yourself.

[Peter_Doherty]

batdad - Hehe sorry, i just use him as an example since that's the best one i got, i obviously watch more Rangers then any other team and Hagelin is the only player in Rangers that is clearly THE best (might be tied but whatever) at something in the league so it's natural to use him as an example

I don't really repeat it either, i just use it as an example to give my view of a thread, it's not like i spam "HAGELIN IS THE FASTEST" 3 times in every thread.

[batdad]

Really? I swear i Have read it every time I read a post of yours.

[Peter_Doherty]

I guess you should look at getting a new pair of glasses then

[batdad]

No need. I know I am right, and so do you.

[Peter_Doherty]

Ehm, no?

Edit: Done with littering this thread, pm me if you don't want to let it go. I will keep using Hagelin as an example if it adds to the point i'm trying to make, deal with it.

[umwoz]

I suppose the limitations are artificially imposed by the frequency of 20 rated attributes.

Again I do get where they come from when this idea comes up. But it is totally unneeded when you pay attention to probability and statistics. There is no end point to it if you go this route in the game. No one is above perfect and 20 is perfect.

But here's where the idea arises from. Sure nobody is perfect, because hockey is composed of skills, and skills are always evolving. Pre 2007 Draft I'm sure we would all agree that Pavel Datsyuk deserves a 20 in deking. Fast forward to today and(while I'm sure some will disagree)... Patrick Kane is on another level with stickhandling. Those two 20's in game however, are equal.

Nobody is above perfect.... but no matter what technical skill you choose, at one point we thought somebody was a '20' at that... and someone better came along.

I'm sure there are other ways, just provoking discussion.

[nino33]

I would much rather just that the DB-makers redistributes the attributes and tones them down a bit, 20 acceleration for example should be reserved only for Hagelin and maybe a few (then i really mean a few 2-3) others while 20 wristshot really only should be on Ovechkin, attributes are just too top heavy so after a few years the 20-24 year old (when game starts) studs have developed a bit there are so many 20s out there, way too many. A player like Seguin is fast, but he will never ever be as fast as Hagelin, yet in the game he will get to 19-19-19+ (acc, speed, agi) every single time, that's just not realistic

It doesn't make a difference how we distribute the Attributes if the game allows them to develop excessively, which is why I responded to the idea of a limit on such development by saying "I think that's what supposed to happen actually, and hopefully we'll see this as things get tweaked in the coming updates" - as even you note it's not what players start out as but what they "get to" that's the issue, and that has to be addressed by Riz (and my understanding is he's working on it!)

[Peter_Doherty]

nino - Spot on.

[umwoz]

It's essentially like the old days before you guys pulled the retirees. No matter what we would rate players the regens would develop into the best in the league.