Official lead up to 2015-16 season thread

[batdad]

There are serious drops in talent after #2, and after #13-15. But....some still think Hanifin is the next coming of Chris Pronger/Scott Niedermeyer/Bobby Orr/Wayne Gretzky/Mark MEssier all rolled into one.

Today I head that if he is available at #23 there is one guy Vancouver will absolutely NOT draft....and that is Kylington. Reporter gave no reason why, but he has alot of insider access to the Canucks brains and scouting staff, so I tend to believe it. Also....Laughed real hard when one of the other dman was described by Pierre McGuire as a very similar player to DANA MURZYN...in a good way. LOL.

Finally....the other two they spoke about in the Canuck wheelhouse were Chabot and Roy...both were described by MCGuire as upside of Dan Boyle. Although one is bigger (Chabot) but that they possess that kind of top end upside. With that in mind if Vancouver does not take Chabot at that point....and instead takes Carlo (Murzyn) they have an issue. Roy would be the 2nd choice.

But again, who knows if available. Vancouver needs a dman at that point, but they also need a future Henrik successor. The guy who comes closest to that who may be available at 23 is Jansen Harkins. But he is at best a #2 to me. Harkins is a guy, like Barzal i have seen a zillion times since they were 10. In terms of person, character and desire I would rather have Harkins. But it is comparing apples to oranges. Like comparing Gretzky to Messier (not saying either is that because they are not).....Barzal is a weaker Sakic, Harkins is a weaker Forsberg.

[Peter_Doherty]

Actually surprised that Nucks are adamant at not drafting Kylington, almost all the mock drafts have them picking a puck moving D-man there and talentwise he would be by far the best at #23 if he's still there... Guess they really don't like something about him... Both Chabot and Roy will be good players though so i guess they want the safer pick which is fair enough...

[batdad]

This reporter is saying "I will not say why, but know they will not draft him" Not sure what he did, but it was something Trevor and Jim or Thomas Gradin did not like at all. The way it was phrased made me wonder about off-ice stuff or teammate stuff. I dunno.

[Peter_Doherty]

Yeah, i dunno either... It's known that some teams really don't like Kylington though, in Bobs draft-rankings where he talks to scouts there were several scouts that had him outside the first round and atleast one had him outside top-60, at the same time there were scouts that had him well within top-15 aswell... High risk very high reward is what he is... I think he will be a stud, best skater i've ever seen...

[batdad]

Nah. The best skater I have ever seen is a tie. Evgeni Plechenko and Kurt Browning. They were not good hockey players, but Dana Murzyn was, and so are Milan Lucic, Dan Boyle, Brian Boyle and Brent Seabrook.

[Peter_Doherty]

Kylington is just so smooth on the skates, not just fast but technically excellent on the skates, if he gets it together he will be elite.

[batdad]

Most scouts have him as a 2-4 guy. That is not elite. That is good. Elite would be PK Subban, Karlsson, Doughty, Keith. That is not a class I would ever put Kylington into, even when I saw how good he was for the Swedish World Jr team. He skates very well. But he is not that elite.


In general and this is not a stab at you...the word elite is thrown around far to easy when describing prospects in this sport now. It just is. ELite is reserved for people like Connor McDavid. Not even Eichel is elite. He is compared to guys who were star players, but not generational talents. There is ABSOLUTELY zero wrong with saying Eichel is a stud prospect, but I take issue with the word elite being used to describe him. He is top notch, but McDavid is a generational talent and that is who the word elite should be reserved for.

It should never be used IMHO to describe a talent who is someone who would be from the middle or bottom of the first round. If they were truly elite, there would be scouts with that player in the top 2 this season. There are not.

Eichel is very very close to that. But he is not even that.

It is society's fault that this is happening. Everybody gets a ribbon at Sports Day garbage. Sorry...but some are just that much better than others and they deserve to be separated. McDavid is. Eichel, Hanifin, and perhaps Strome and if healthy and grows up Barzal are stud prospects, like Reinhart, Ekblad Nylander and the top 3 or 4 others were last year.

But they are NOT elite. Mackinnon although was described that way was not ELITE. He is not a generational talent. He is one hell of a player but is not generational which means is not elite. He is just a great player. An all star for sure.

It is like saying that because Nick Bjugstad was a #1 centre on a bad team with young centres (and I do not know or care if he was last year for sure) that he is a #1 Centre. He is not. he is a #2 on any kind of playoff team at best.

Elite is thrown around too much is all I am saying. Solid, Stud, Good, Great yes. Elite? No. That is reserved for me for the best ever. Gretzky, Messier, Howe, Orr, Lemieux, Forsberg, and now McDavid (may have missed one or two) were elite prospects. Not many others. Probably 1-10 per decade.

[Peter_Doherty]

Well to be fair, not many guys had EK65 as a #1 guy when he was drafted either, Kylington has that elite ceiling, he probably won't get there but his physical tools means he has that ceiling imo. His skating is THAT elite atleast, say whatever you want about the rest of his game but his skating is elite...

I agree with that actually, i might use it too much aswell but in this case i stand by it, his skating is just amazing... I'm not saying all of Kylington is elite, just his skating and his ceiling as of now He is basicly a boom or bust type of player though...

Agree with most of what you said in this post though, people use too many big words too easily...

[batdad]

Yes an elite skater can be used for him. But nothing else about him makes him an overall elite prospect. Lots of guys are elite skaters and not great stars...Doug Smail, Mason Raymond, etc etc. Just great skaters.

[Peter_Doherty]

I agree with that, he's not an elite prospect, but his ceiling is also that of a First pairing PP QB... Most likely he will not get there though... I do think that Eichel could be described as an elite prospect though, kid is the real deal... McDavid is a generational talent but Eichel is a franchise player aswell, MacKinnon etc were never that

Edit: Come on Slats, get a deal done for Talbot now, i can't stand the anticipation... With every minute that goes i just hope for a better and better deal...

[philou21]

ROR to Buffalo! Haven't got more details though.

[Peter_Doherty]

Rumors are Zadorov+Grigorenko+#31, pretty good deal for both i would say... If ROR had been an angel for his entire NHL career i would say Avs should get a little bit more, but since he hasn't been i think it's a fair deal.

[philou21]

Roy probably pushed for having Grigorenko. Not sure it will change things much for him but the Avs can't screw him up as much as Buffalo did.


LOL At Bettman who just said something like "Looking at the upper deck hockey is alive and well in Florida."

[philou21]

Poor, poor McDavid.

[Peter_Doherty]

Full deal is Zadorov, Grigorenko, #31 and JT Compher for ROR and McGinn.

[philou21]

McGinn? Ahhh sucks I liked that guy. Don't know Compher though but Zadorov will certainly help the Avs D eventually. Buffalo is starting to look like something now.

[philou21]

Boston masterplan failed it seems.

[Peter_Doherty]

Pretty expected picks so far, i had Marner and Hanifin switched... I hope Philly takes the future 3rd liner Crouse here but they will probably get Provorov.

[philou21]

Yup they did.

[Peter_Doherty]

Actually called that Sharks would go Meier over Rantanen and Crouse, he just seemed like a fit.

[philou21]

Islanders traded Griffin Reinhart to Edmonton for their 16th pick and another one I forgot.

[batdad]

Griffin Reinhart oiler

[Peter_Doherty]

Solid trade for both teams i would say.

[batdad]

Perfect trade for the Oilers. EXACTLY what they need.

Vancouver radio is SKEWERING JIM BENNING. Nothing done, Still have Lack, still have Bieksa. LA, Edm two teams out of playoffs WAY better. Cal WAY Better. This team needs to do something. They even just said...is Jim Benning even here? LOL

[Peter_Doherty]

I feel empty right now, a few days ago all i wanted was a pick between 30-45, then all the mediahype got to me so i actually believed we would get #9, #11, #12, #15 or #16 for Talbot +... I hate mediahype, especially Dreger...