FHM 2 General Impressions Thread

[batdad]

Hi all,

Game came out yesterday and I am looking for thoughts. I have not purchased it as yet, and looking for feedback.

I AM NOT LOOKING FOR DEBATE ON WHICH IS BETTER EHM or FHM2. I want thoughts on how FHM2 looks, feels, and plays from people that I Know and trust.

For instance-

I saw ALessandro post on their site. Showed strengths and weaknesses of both games, but really I do not want the comparison. I got some sense of how it plays, but not much.

I just want to hear how guys who have played EHM EA and former EHM games ALOT feel that FHM 2 is working.

KEEP YOUR POSTS separate...do not compare to EHM at this point. For the sake of this thread, pretend EHM does not exist and tell me what you think of FHM 2

UI, AI, Game play, etc.


Thanks

[hluraven]

I am likely to get it soon, I went to buy it from the OOTP site and then they threw in VAT just at the last stage which whacked the price higher than I'm prepared to pay. I will probably get it on Steam this week with the discount, the early reviews seem fine but I've not heard too much by way of confirmation of the key concerns I have, just that it's much better than the one before.

[Alessandro]

Hi all,

Game came out yesterday and I am looking for thoughts. I have not purchased it as yet, and looking for feedback.

I AM NOT LOOKING FOR DEBATE ON WHICH IS BETTER EHM or FHM2. I want thoughts on how FHM2 looks, feels, and plays from people that I Know and trust.

For instance-

I saw ALessandro post on their site. Showed strengths and weaknesses of both games, but really I do not want the comparison. I got some sense of how it plays, but not much.

I just want to hear how guys who have played EHM EA and former EHM games ALOT feel that FHM 2 is working.

KEEP YOUR POSTS separate...do not compare to EHM at this point. For the sake of this thread, pretend EHM does not exist and tell me what you think of FHM 2

UI, AI, Game play, etc.


Thanks

The UI still requires too many clicks, IMHO. It has tremendously improved over the first version, but it still requires some clicks to get here and there. Some screens, though, are phenomenal, like the history part, very very detailed and with a good presentation. A huge leap forward if compared to the first version.
The AI I would say it's a bit so and so. I can't comment on the NHL, as I play only in the KHL, but I am sure that there are many things that work the same. For example, the game doesn't care much about the performance (can't help but add "just like EHM"), all it cares is the value of the players in stars. This is especially visible in contracts, if your forward is the league top scorer won't ask for a bonus. Then there are some things like the goon bonus or potential bonus which lead to bad salary decisions. That is KHL, though, however I am sure that the NHL is affected too. Trades, etc., I wouldn't comment too much. Replicate an accurate AI for trades is IMHO an impossible mission, so you're still going to miss it.
Game play is interesting, finally they added some good tactical options, you can finally pull the goalie, etc. The training has also been improved a lot and this is the little stuff that geeks like me and you like to find in games.
If I were you, I'd give it a try. But you need some time to adapt because it's hard to click your way through a certain screen when in EHM you can find it with closed eyes just because you play it for so many years.

[batdad]

ARgh put this in the wrong forum....sorry guys. If someone could move to Hockey games forum that would be great.

And thanks Alessandro.Good points, and only 2 mentions of EHM? Impressed that the number of times you say KHL is equal to number of times you say EHM and NHL. LOL

[m0fownz0r]

I would also like to ask for different perspectives on the playing experience based on GM vs GM/coach mode.I know that FHM (ootp) style is more suited for the former but still incorporates some basic tactical stuff.

I went over their boards, to check the impressions of the new version, and it seems that, although it has improved somewhat, there are still many issues that are unresolved.

[MWE]

If I have time I will probably buy this at the weekend

do you guys reckon I could run both games at the same time

[A9L3E]

If I have time I will probably buy this at the weekend

do you guys reckon I could run both games at the same time

Of course.

[batdad]

Thank you gentlemen.

So I have decided reading the OOTP forums today that I will not be buying this gmae. There are several things that they have clearly improved a ton. However, there are several things I just find wonky. Too bad... but this next one is the final straw for me.
Sad, but true unfortunately.

Here is the post from Jeff in response to a person asking about quite a few buyouts without penalties after year 2.

Originally Posted by JeffR View Post
The compliance buyouts were added to help the AI with cap management - in real life, the GM's gave themselves a way to dump their bad contracts after the last CBA. We don't have labour negotiations in the game, so to simulate the occasional "one time only" escape clause from bad contracts, teams are allowed one compliance buyout every few seasons, starting in 2017. I may need to make the logic a little less liberal about who it dumps, but in 2014 it was used on a still-productive Brad Richards, Vinny Lecavalier, and Christian Ehrhoff, among others.

Now...I hope this thread does not once again become an EHM-FHM attack thread. That is not the intent of it, and I do not expect, nor really even want anyone responding telling me how this is something that is ..

a. not a big deal.
b. just the best way to do things.

Jeff admits it is a workaround to have this in the game. That means to me (AND I DO NOT CARE what it means to ANYONE Else) that this game has an AI in it that cannot even manage the salary cap. Yes--teams in real life have salary cap issues but ...they will do things with trades and movement not buyouts...because they are not allowed.

There is no CBA in the game...and that is the only time buyouts were allowed...with the last negotiation. So why would you add in this buyout rubbish, unless it was to workaround faulty AI.

Unless this goes away completely or someone makes it optional this game is not realistic for me, and I do not wish to purchase it.

AND LOL---using Richards, VInny and Erhoff as the examples from real life. Yeah, they were bought out after a CBA Issue. NOT....after poor seasons. No CBA Issue in game. NO "ESCAPE THIS naff DEAL" clause should be given.

[bruins72]

I checked it out on Steam but didn't buy it. For me the price is a stopper. It's $39.99 normally and right now it's "on sale" for $29.99. To me, they just haven't "earned" that kind of price point. They haven't earned my trust. I'd give it a shot for $15, not a penny more though. I'd have to hear some seriously good things from trusted sources before I'd pay more than that.

[archibalduk]

I haven't played the game much over the past two months (I've been without an internet connection and my new connection is going to be intermittent for up to another ten days), but it is a hell of an improvement over FHM 1. I'm going to write a full review for GM Games once my internet connection is back and I've had a real chance to try out the release build.

What concerns me most about FHM is the AI and that's what I'm most interested in testing and hearing other people's experiences on. I remember an issue with FHM 1, and I don't recall it being resolved for FHM 2015, is that the AI cannot cope with squads larger than ~23 players. Thus you'll see that European teams have reserve lists so that only 23 players can be on the active roster (in a similar way to NHL teams having 23 players and the rest on the farm teams). As far as I'm aware, Euro leagues do not have reserve lists and so we shouldn't be limited to the number of players on the active roster. Perhaps somebody with the game installed can check if this is still the case?

Another big issue for me is the lack of complete league rules for leagues outside of the NHL. Alessandro mentioned this to be the case with the KHL and I know this to be the case with the UK too.

It is understandably difficult for OOTP given the different demands placed upon them by different groups of users. So they're never going to please anybody. As with Alessandro, my interest in FHM is first and foremost as a hockey management and coaching sim - rather than some sandbox game/world creation sim.

But the above shouldn't detract from how much of an improvement over FHM 1 the new game is. The OOTP guys have done really well IMO. Although I would have liked to have seen a bigger discount for users that bought FHM 1 given the huge delay in the long awaited match engine patch (has it been released yet?) and the very rocky release, etc - but understandably OOTP is a small studio and I suppose cannot afford to discount the game too heavily.

[archibalduk]

P.s. I have re-opened the FHM Forum. I hope this time we can keep the discussion more civil. I appreciate some people love/hate the game, but lets not argue about it.

[batdad]

Yes my thoughts exactly archi.

And yeah, the sandbox thing...meh. Although I have to admit the historical game with the drafting and guys going to different places is interesting to me.

I believe that FHM can become a great game, and I hope it does. Just not there for me right now. But..>I have not touched EHM in about 4 months it seems either.

[Alessandro]

What concerns me most about FHM is the AI and that's what I'm most interested in testing and hearing other people's experiences on. I remember an issue with FHM 1, and I don't recall it being resolved for FHM 2015, is that the AI cannot cope with squads larger than ~23 players. Thus you'll see that European teams have reserve lists so that only 23 players can be on the active roster (in a similar way to NHL teams having 23 players and the rest on the farm teams). As far as I'm aware, Euro leagues do not have reserve lists and so we shouldn't be limited to the number of players on the active roster. Perhaps somebody with the game installed can check if this is still the case?

In the KHL teams have a large roster, with a realistic number of players. But in the KHL there are roster rules, maybe it helps the AI. Not all rules are in for the KHL, and many of them aren't implemented that well, but we can say the same about our favorite game either. The UK league I think it's less complicated that the KHL, though.

[RomaGoth]

I was a tester and roster guy for FHM14 and became so disgusted with it that I walked away from the entire project. The game was just....unplayable.

I really like OOTP and what they have done over the years with their baseball game, so I decided to give them another chance with FHM2 so I bought it yesterday and installed. Admittedly, I did not go really deep into the game as I am still playing EHM, but what I have seen so far is very promising.

I was able to sim an entire season (took about 8-10 minutes) with no crashes or errors of any kind. The UI is much, much better than before, and I really like how hovering over a player link gives basic info on the player without having to actually click on the the name.

I will play it some more in the coming week and give more reviews on it when I can. As of now, I like it and am excited for the future of the FHM series. The developers definitely listened to the player base after the last debacle and improved the game in every way.

[hluraven]

I have bought it now, and it is beyond belief better than the first one, to the point where that can be forgotten. The question now is how it stands on its own. You can't compare fictional/historical really as EHM doesn't really focus there at all, so looking solely at the modern game from a realism/playability point of view:

I haven't played much, but I think it appears (so far) to exceed EHM levels on a couple of big points, the player progression is probably the biggest which seems (again, at first) to be very good, and more in the OOTP style rather than the fixed potentials of the SI style. Combine this with a much more realistic scouting system than EHM and you have much better and more realistic feeling modern world simulation.

The other main stand out area is the game engine stats. These are staggeringly close to real life, and can be tweaked league by league as well. While I'm sure it will come, there are no killer tactics or simply put shooting on barrage to win type holes in the game, and results feel right. EHM may show you a 2D moving puck/players, so the presentation is better, but the underlying engine is much better in FHM.

I would probably disagree that the AI in FHM is bad or makes the game unplayable compared to EHM in terms of cap management/roster building, I think we all know how easy it is in EHM to exploit and trading seems no worse/slightly better in FHM to date. The dumping of some high salary but high production players to a mythical CBA is not good, but a small crutch to the AI is probably better than the ease you can exploit the AI in EHM (in my opinion). Additionally, the developers have already said they will tone it down in a patch and not do it on the higher productive players, so it won't be around for long.

EHM has a few things FHM doesn't, international play is one, probably more up to date/comprehensive rules outside of NHL is another. The GUI is obviously preference/familiarity but I give the edge to EHM there (apart from the tiny screen), both in general use and ease of modding. EHM also has better training camp/try-outs. FHM has expansion, fictional mode and online play.

FHM has 21 playable leagues over 12 countries, EHM has 22 playable leagues over 12 countries, so as good as the same there.

Overall, I am very impressed with FHM, which frankly I did not expect to be. For now, I will probably be splitting my time between the two games, and both have big potential to go further. Sadly, EHM seems to be progressing very slowly, but if Riz can dedicate more time once FM16 is out then maybe it can keep pace.

[bruins72]

Thanks for that info, Hluraven. That was a very objective and fair look at comparing the games without slamming one or the other. Good info!

[batdad]

That was my thought exactly. He did a good job of that. Thanks.

My thought pattern on this is changing a bit. Still not liking the bug reports etc coming out of FHM, but it appears it has advanced a ton from FHM2014. This is good. Once the bugs are squashed and the AI for trading is tuned up, so that the draft pick values are good, and the trades make sense to what type of team an AI manager is building (going for cup vs Rebuild) I may look at buying it.

Still do not like the buyout stuff, but it is not a game breaker. Especially since going to work on who gets bought out etc.

The other one I really do not like is the sending guys up and down for training camp and ex games. That one I would love to see sorted, but the workaround of making it not affect a player;s morale is good for some of it. And it would force us to dress the 8 veterans we have to have in the lineup for sure. I want to see this change so that we can make the pre season lineups work and not the 23 man limit for rosters.

But overall the game seems to be heading in a good direction. In fact both games do. Different games, different ideas. Both can be good for different reasons.


Edited to add: I also want to see the game somehow make the players be judged a bit better for their actions prior to the start of game season. I see talk about how the players are just numbers and names are not recognized as stars etc in the game at startup, and that the game cannot and does not take into account what they have done in their careers prior to the starting season you choose in game. I know this may not be easy to do, but I think FHM needs to be able to read the data for these players and recognize their talents and numbers from prior to the date you choose to start your game a bit better.

This would avoid some of the moves we are seeing in the game, like the trading of Jonathon Quick etc for average prospects.

Again, not a game breaker but something that would make the game more realistic to start.

[Prowl]

Thank you for the honest impressions. I've had some family stuff to deal with so I only had limited time to test beta build. I'm going to purchase as I like the direction the game is going and as a huge hockey fan, how do you not like the fact we have 2 great games?

[stone169]

It's not bad. The way to setup your scouting has improved somewhat and seems to be closer to EHM. Setting your lines is too much of a chore IMHO. When I finally figured out how to stop my assistant from setting my lines automatically for me during games, it seemed as though the game would clear my 4 lines each period and I would have to go set them up again for each period. Playing the game shouldn't have to be a chore.

Also before each game I get a player projection of how Marc Methot could reach 100 points this season. I don't see that happening in any universe.

[zbguy]

FHM2 actually surprised me about how improved it was over FHM1. I was expecting marginal improvements (say, the game doesn't crash at nearly ever opportunity), and it's actually got some depth to it. This is what FHM1 should have been.

I like more of what EHM brings to the table (more detailed universe, international play, the game aspect is a little more fun to play) but I can see the potential in FHM. Hopefully it's getting enough support so we can have two hockey sims going at once.

[dave1927p]

Edited to add: I also want to see the game somehow make the players be judged a bit better for their actions prior to the start of game season. I see talk about how the players are just numbers and names are not recognized as stars etc in the game at startup, and that the game cannot and does not take into account what they have done in their careers prior to the starting season you choose in game. I know this may not be easy to do, but I think FHM needs to be able to read the data for these players and recognize their talents and numbers from prior to the date you choose to start your game a bit better.

That makes me think of ratings for EA sports games how they can flucuate so greatly season to season. It would be very cool to see a player perform great one season (maybe above his potential) and his star attribute be boosted as a result. So coming into the new season he might be shown as a 4 star guy even though he's still just a 3.5 star. Based on his play in the preseason games and the coming season the overall may continue to increase or decrease. To me that would be awesome to see.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Edited to add: I also want to see the game somehow make the players be judged a bit better for their actions prior to the start of game season. I see talk about how the players are just numbers and names are not recognized as stars etc in the game at startup, and that the game cannot and does not take into account what they have done in their careers prior to the starting season you choose in game. I know this may not be easy to do, but I think FHM needs to be able to read the data for these players and recognize their talents and numbers from prior to the date you choose to start your game a bit better.

That makes me think of ratings for EA sports games how they can flucuate so greatly season to season. It would be very cool to see a player perform great one season (maybe above his potential) and his star attribute be boosted as a result. So coming into the new season he might be shown as a 4 star guy even though he's still just a 3.5 star. Based on his play in the preseason games and the coming season the overall may continue to increase or decrease. To me that would be awesome to see.

Their baseball game does that. I tried to tell the dev to implement this during the development of FHM1 but they did not know what I was talking about so I just never mentioned it again.

I would think essential options from the baseball game would somehow make it's way to the hockey game. There is not even a trade difficulty and apparently trades are too easy in FHM2

[Sebastian Palkowski]

Seems I got that wrong, so I removed my lengthy explanation. Sorry!

Their baseball game does that. I tried to tell the dev to implement this during the development of FHM1 but they did not know what I was talking about so I just never mentioned it again.

I would think essential options from the baseball game would somehow make it's way to the hockey game. There is not even a trade difficulty and apparently trades are too easy in FHM2

[Lazion]

We understood what you said, we just did not agree that it is the best way to do it. OOTP works on the idea that the potential of a player can change during his career (e.g. I draft him as 5 star player and later he drops to 4 stars). I don't like that and think it is not realistic. The new development engine in FHM 2 works on the basis, that the potential of a player is given and if anything develops normal, he will most likely reach it (only exception: major injuries can drop the potential down). Of course development has many factors (e.g. hidden attributes like professionalism, training, his coaches, ice-time, injuries, luck/bad luck, quality of competition, ...), so many player will never reach there potential before starting to decline, some player will develop better and go over the potential and some will reach it. Factor in individual development speed, aging, scouting and all the other small factors and IMO you get a pretty realistic development system. Of course it always needs tweaking and there are some areas (e.g. draft predictability) that we want to improve asap but all in all it works pretty nicely.

Their baseball game does that. I tried to tell the dev to implement this during the development of FHM1 but they did not know what I was talking about so I just never mentioned it again.

I would think essential options from the baseball game would somehow make it's way to the hockey game. There is not even a trade difficulty and apparently trades are too easy in FHM2

IMO they are talking about player evaluation based on player performance (stats). I really can't say for sure, but there's some sort of performance bonus is FHM.. nothing advanced like in OOTP, I think.

[Sabresfan]

reading all of the posts over on the ootp forum and then reading all of the responses on this forum i am still torn as to if i wanna get the game or not.. my main thing is

1) i think the roster camp need to be more then 23 players
2) dont have the option to move teams around in divisions..
3) I know its 25% off right now but when u think about it after the convertaion that is still almost 50 Cnd for a game like just think of what it will cost after that discount isnt around anymore do i wait until more patches come out and when the price drops if it does?