Draft Quality

[nino33]

...but you won't get a star/superstar player in the late rounds)

I don't entirely agree with that. It is mostly right, but I've seen a fair number of quality players in the late rounds. I'd say that every few (in-game) years there's a star player (not generational talent, but key player) drafted in the late rounds and plenty of regular/depth players.

I'd love it to be the way you describe! If people are getting star players in the 5th-7th rounds of the Draft please post screenshots showing their draft data and stats! I'm sure many would be interested in seeing these

EDIT - it'd be helpful to add what "Add Players/Staff/Juniors" options were selected; since the recent update my testing has shown the adding players options increases the talent pool quite a bit (likely to much) including adding superstar/generational players (for sure to many, as they become yearly players at times and not at all "generational")

[DOCsnowman]

Could somebody explain how you're reaching the PA CA values? I'm pretty new to scouting players. Reading through this thread has already helped a lot, thanks!

[nino33]

Could somebody explain how you're reaching the PA CA values?

Not sure what you mean by "reaching" - if you meant to say reading, the CA (Current Ability) and PA (Potential Ability) are hidden Attributes and aren't directly visible ingame...they're "determined" by looking at what is visible ingame (the visible Atts, scouting reports, ingame performance, etc)

The EHM Assistant http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... &start=400 can be used to view saved game data

[helmespc]

...but you won't get a star/superstar player in the late rounds)

I don't entirely agree with that. It is mostly right, but I've seen a fair number of quality players in the late rounds. I'd say that every few (in-game) years there's a star player (not generational talent, but key player) drafted in the late rounds and plenty of regular/depth players.

I'd love it to be the way you describe! If people are getting star players in the 5th-7th rounds of the Draft please post screenshots showing their draft data and stats! I'm sure many would be interested in seeing these

EDIT - it'd be helpful to add what "Add Players/Staff/Juniors" options were selected; since the recent update my testing has shown the adding players options increases the talent pool quite a bit (likely to much) including adding superstar/generational players (for sure to many, as they become yearly players at times and not at all "generational")

I checked my game after I got home from work after writing that and it appears maybe I was a bit misled. I'm in 2022 and I see a reasonable amount of "regular" players from the lower draft rounds, but nobody that is really making a huge impact. If I go back to 2017 I see quite a few good players in THAT draft from the lower rounds, but I don't believe those to be game-created players. I'll have to see after a few more years. I've *drafted* a lot of lower players who the coaches believe to be talented enough to retain, but nothing quite as exciting as I had originally thought!

[Moses Doughty]

...but you won't get a star/superstar player in the late rounds)

I don't entirely agree with that. It is mostly right, but I've seen a fair number of quality players in the late rounds. I'd say that every few (in-game) years there's a star player (not generational talent, but key player) drafted in the late rounds and plenty of regular/depth players.

I'd love it to be the way you describe! If people are getting star players in the 5th-7th rounds of the Draft please post screenshots showing their draft data and stats! I'm sure many would be interested in seeing these

EDIT - it'd be helpful to add what "Add Players/Staff/Juniors" options were selected; since the recent update my testing has shown the adding players options increases the talent pool quite a bit (likely to much) including adding superstar/generational players (for sure to many, as they become yearly players at times and not at all "generational")

I haven't seen an issue with too many generational type guys but alot of the prospects who are a bit older and have high offensive stats can often times turn into quality players

[saberhagen83]

One thing I've been thinking about a lot but haven't looked into too much myself. I've actually drafted the guy posted on the previous page, Ryan Brushett, to my Toronto team at 138th overall. My scouts all claim he is a 3rd line potential, how wrong they are. It's quite obvious to me (looking at him in my game) that he is gonna be loaded offensivly. But exactly like in the pic in this thread he is not very good defensivly and not a good passer at all. He is apparently ALL goals, skill and speed.

Is it possible to take this player, as an example, and lift his passing and defensive skills through training? He apparently has a LOT of growth to do to reach his potential, so is his PA locked to certain attributes or can you actually turn him into a decent 2-way player with more emphasis on offense? Or is he always gonna be that goalscorer and not much more? I am thinking that if a player is very determined, you could actually change his style of play but I am unsure if the game works that way.

[helmespc]

In my experience, its been best to use players like that as snipers or offensive specialists. I've got a guy on my team right now who is garbage defensively (4's across the board in the defensive attributes), but has turned into a 30 goal scorer after a few years in the league.

[Ferretferret]

I've definitely noticed the later rounds have better prospects than the earlier ones, bizarrely enough.

I just looked my game up in the editor, and

My PA average from rounds 1-3: 162

PA average from rounds 5-7: 177

(My round-four pick sucked both years; whoops. XD)

My round six draft pick last year had a PA of 192. My round six draft pick this year has a PA of 199.

It definitely seems like following scouts' advice pays off quite fantastically well.

I've only had one player with a PA of 170+ in rounds 1-3; rounds 5-7, where I listen more to the scouts, has resulted in 4 players with 170+ PA.

[RomaGoth]

I've definitely noticed the later rounds have better prospects than the earlier ones, bizarrely enough.

I just looked my game up in the editor, and

My PA average from rounds 1-3: 162

PA average from rounds 5-7: 177

(My round-four pick sucked both years; whoops. XD)

My round six draft pick last year had a PA of 192. My round six draft pick this year has a PA of 199.

It definitely seems like following scouts' advice pays off quite fantastically well.

I've only had one player with a PA of 170+ in rounds 1-3; rounds 5-7, where I listen more to the scouts, has resulted in 4 players with 170+ PA.

Are these PA's based on the old ratings from previous EHM games where a 170 is 1st line player, 180-190 is superstar, and 200 is generational? Or, is this a new type of system specific to EHM1?

[nino33]

There is WAY to much high end talent being produced (since 1.1)
Riz is aware and will be making adjustments accordingly



In January and then again in March I did multiple 20-30 year tests and then charted the talent pool by PA level and birth year

In EHM version 1.1 adjustments were made to the "starting/initial talent pool" in EHM. These adjustments need tweaking

After the last update my testing showed the game creates way to many generational/superstar players over about a ten year period


Here's a summary of my testing results...

The original test showed birth years 2000-2010 resulted in
- 0 players with a 190-200 PA
- 1 players with a 180-189 PA
- 8 players with a 170-179 PA
NOTE the original test was done with 1.0, the five tests below with 1.1 (all tests looked at players born 2000-2010)

Test 1 (with players/juniors added) shows
- 12 players with a 190-200 PA
- 24 players with a 180-189 PA
- 65 players with a 170-179 PA

Test 2 (with players/juniors added) shows
- 13 players with a 190-200 PA
- 23 players with a 180-189 PA
- 61 players with a 170-179 PA

Test 3 (with players/juniors added) shows
- 13 players with a 190-200 PA
- 24 players with a 180-189 PA
- 66 players with a 170-179 PA

Test 4 (without players/juniors added) shows
- 10 players with a 190-200 PA
- 13 players with a 180-189 PA
- 30 players with a 170-179 PA

Test 5 (without players/juniors added) shows
- 10 players with a 190-200 PA
- 8 players with a 180-189 PA
- 23 players with a 170-179 PA

For about a decade...
- the talent pool that used to have 10-12 players in the 170-200 PA range now has 50-100!
- players who are "generational" (like Gretzky) are being generated, on average, every year!

As mentioned, Riz is aware and will be making adjustments accordingly

[Ferretferret]

They are! I'm quite pleased with how the drafts have gone, to say the least. But, yeah, Sidney Crosby also had a PA (and CA) of 199, so, I'm pretty excited for the new players to develop. XD

Edit: Ah, I see. I was wondering why the recent draft classes seemed so superb. O_o

[Ferretferret]

There is WAY to much high end talent being produced (since 1.1)
Riz is aware and will be making adjustments accordingly



In January and then again in March I did multiple 20-30 year tests and then charted the talent pool by PA level and birth year

In EHM version 1.1 adjustments were made to the "starting/initial talent pool" in EHM. These adjustments need tweaking

After the last update my testing showed the game creates way to many generational/superstar players over about a ten year period


Here's a summary of my testing results...

The original test showed birth years 2000-2010 resulted in
- 0 players with a 190-200 PA
- 1 players with a 180-189 PA
- 8 players with a 170-179 PA
NOTE the original test was done with 1.0, the five tests below with 1.1 (all tests looked at players born 2000-2010)

Test 1 (with players/juniors added) shows
- 12 players with a 190-200 PA
- 24 players with a 180-189 PA
- 65 players with a 170-179 PA

Test 2 (with players/juniors added) shows
- 13 players with a 190-200 PA
- 23 players with a 180-189 PA
- 61 players with a 170-179 PA

Test 3 (with players/juniors added) shows
- 13 players with a 190-200 PA
- 24 players with a 180-189 PA
- 66 players with a 170-179 PA

Test 4 (without players/juniors added) shows
- 10 players with a 190-200 PA
- 13 players with a 180-189 PA
- 30 players with a 170-179 PA

Test 5 (without players/juniors added) shows
- 10 players with a 190-200 PA
- 8 players with a 180-189 PA
- 23 players with a 170-179 PA

For about a decade...
- the talent pool that used to have 10-12 players in the 170-200 PA range now has 50-100!
- players who are "generational" (like Gretzky) are being generated, on average, every year!

As mentioned, Riz is aware and will be making adjustments accordingly

Are there any insights regarding how this would be corrected? Like, after the next patch, will the PA values of my previous draft picks suddenly plummet? Or, would it only change future draft classes? Or, perhaps, would it only affect new save files? I purchased the game through the Humble Bundle, which was immediately after the 1.1 Patch, so, I'm not sure how new patches to this game affect old saves.

[nino33]

I don't know, but I suspect the fix will require a new game...

I don't think the PAs of your players will be affected

FYI - a player may not reach his PA, as many things can affect development (icetime, quality of competition, coaching, practice, etc). Also, I wonder if your player with the 13CA and 199PA http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 87#p210387 will develop into an NHLer.....players typically need a CA well over 100 at 18 to develop into superstars (and based on previous testing I've done, the largest CA boost typically occurs as a teenager/before their draft year.....I don't think players receive huge CA boosts after they're drafted, so I wonder if your 13CA player is just starting to far down to ever come close to his potential)

[Kobrakay]

I don't know, but I suspect the fix will require a new game...

I don't think the PAs of your players will be affected

FYI - a player may not reach his PA, as many things can affect development (icetime, quality of competition, coaching, practice, etc). Also, I wonder if your player with the 13CA and 199PA http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 87#p210387 will develop into an NHLer.....players typically need a CA well over 100 at 18 to develop into superstars (and based on previous testing I've done, the largest CA boost typically occurs as a teenager/before their draft year.....I don't think players receive huge CA boosts after they're drafted, so I wonder if your 13CA player is just starting to far down to ever come close to his potential)

My main problem with the draft classes was not the PA across the draft but the CA of the players...it was on the low side (still is). It is discouraging to draft an early 1st rounder with mostly orange or red attributes.

At least, from my experience the latter part of your post does not always happen and there are a lot of players developing quite nicely after being drafted, otherwise with such low CA values as junior players (even for very top end talent juniors) the NHL would be decreasing rapidly in quality on average. I've had several players developing a lot after being drafted but the way to get there varies a lot. There is not one formula I think, since for a few players junior seems to work better, others benefit from NHL time, others require several years (thus AHL for some time) and others simply never get there.

[nino33]

My main problem with the draft classes was not the PA across the draft but the CA of the players...it was on the low side (still is). It is discouraging to draft an early 1st rounder with mostly orange or red attributes.

I think if you actually looked at data/testing results you'd see it differently....only a couple/few 1st rounders can play in the NHL right away (this past season it was just 3 players, and only 8 of 210 players even played a game in the NHL)

At least, from my experience the latter part of your post does not always happen and there are a lot of players developing quite nicely after being drafted

Not sure what you're referring to, but as I never said anything always happened a particular way I know I wasn't saying what you think I was...

otherwise with such low CA values as junior players (even for very top end talent juniors) the NHL would be decreasing rapidly in quality on average.

I'm not sure at all what you're saying here.....what "low" CA values are you referring too?
The regen system in general maintains the overall talent pool.....adding 50-100 top players to the database can only increase the CA/PA average...
And adding a few new/recent draftees to a talent pool of 600+ players (many/most who are seeing a CA increase or staying the same) isn't going to affect the CA average (and the testing done has shown this)...

Only three players from the 2015 NHL Draft have played regularly this past season.
Only four players from the 2014 NHL Draft have played more than a season worth of NHL games.
Players take time to develop, and I think some people's talent/performance expectations of recent draftees can be unrealistic.....

There is not one formula I think, since for a few players junior seems to work better, others benefit from NHL time, others require several years (thus AHL for some time) and others simply never get there.

I didn't think anyone was implying in any way that there was a "formula"

[Kobrakay]

My main problem with the draft classes was not the PA across the draft but the CA of the players...it was on the low side (still is). It is discouraging to draft an early 1st rounder with mostly orange or red attributes.

I think if you actually looked at data/testing results you'd see it differently....only a couple/few 1st rounders can play in the NHL right away (this past season it was just 3 players, and only 8 of 210 players even played a game in the NHL)

At least, from my experience the latter part of your post does not always happen and there are a lot of players developing quite nicely after being drafted

Not sure what you're referring to, but as I never said anything always happened a particular way I know I wasn't saying what you think I was...

otherwise with such low CA values as junior players (even for very top end talent juniors) the NHL would be decreasing rapidly in quality on average.

I'm not sure at all what you're saying here.....what "low" CA values are you referring too?
The regen system in general maintains the overall talent pool.....adding 50-100 top players to the database can only increase the CA/PA average...
And adding a few new/recent draftees to a talent pool of 600+ players (many/most who are seeing a CA increase or staying the same) isn't going to affect the CA average (and the testing done has shown this)...

Only three players from the 2015 NHL Draft have played regularly this past season.
Only four players from the 2014 NHL Draft have played more than a season worth of NHL games.
Players take time to develop, and I think some people's talent/performance expectations of recent draftees can be unrealistic.....

There is not one formula I think, since for a few players junior seems to work better, others benefit from NHL time, others require several years (thus AHL for some time) and others simply never get there.

I didn't think anyone was implying in any way that there was a "formula"

I don't understand the need of the apparent aggressiveness in your post.

You said players don't get significant CA boosts after their draft year. I stated that based on my experience some players do get significant boosts in their CA after their draft year. One can always argue what does "significant boost" means...but ok.

The rest I'm not even going to touch because either I lost my ability to write in English, or I can't understand how can my comments be completely misunderstood when they were no big deal and a simple sharing of an opinion (and sometimes not the opinion you are replying to...but ok). English is not my first language so maybe I'm not writing what I think I am.

[nino33]

Significant would be 30-50 points...
I wasn't offering my opinion, just sharing actual testing results/IRL examples (sorry if you took it as aggressive)

I can't understand how can my comments be completely misunderstood when they were no big deal and a simple sharing of an opinion (and sometimes not the opinion you are replying to...but ok). English is not my first language so maybe I'm not writing what I think I am.

Maybe it is a language issue (I think I interpreted and responded to your words accurately)...as one who does the roster editing and advises others on the roster editing I try to think in terms of actual numbers/facts/testing results/etc (and develop guidelines for editing as a result)

[MasonCooper42]

guys what exactly is pa and ca? its confusing me big time as ive not seen any hint of it in my game so far.

[nino33]

guys what exactly is pa and ca? its confusing me big time as ive not seen any hint of it in my game so far.

CA = current ability
PA = potential ability

Neither CA or PA is shown ingame directly, nor are all the Attributes
The Attribute Guide explains more http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/wiki/inde ... s:_Players

[saberhagen83]

I wonder if the new update might be fixing some of the issues with drafted players being bad defensivly (looking at defensive players here). Since I saw this in the changelog "Adjustments to the Offensive/Defensive Awareness ratings created for newgens and when filling in blank attributes" I was wondering if this is tied in with Hockey Sense/Anticipation?

I've found that it's near impossible to draft decent to great defensive players. They may be great attribute wise but 95%+ of them can't read the play (low hockey sense) = they are still terrible in their own zone/PK. If this is the case, I may just have to start a new save.

Also if there are less offensive superstars in each draft now? It's too easy apparently to find guys that will be 99 in speed, acceleration, wrist shot and deking all the way down to the last few picks. I see them everywhere, and most have the same attribute distribution. They can't defend and all attributes are filled in skills and speed.

[MasonCooper42]

guys what exactly is pa and ca? its confusing me big time as ive not seen any hint of it in my game so far.

CA = current ability
PA = potential ability

Neither CA or PA is shown ingame directly, nor are all the Attributes
The Attribute Guide explains more http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/wiki/inde ... s:_Players

thank you

[MasonCooper42]

now how do I see these hidden attributes? I assume someone has otherwise I doubt we would have known about these

[nino33]

now how do I see these hidden attributes? I assume someone has otherwise I doubt we would have known about these

They're "hidden" ingame, they're visible via editors

[MasonCooper42]

how do I use these editor and see these stats?

[MasonCooper42]

never mind I found it