The British Hockey Thread 2016-17

[Calv]

Time for a new thread I think, with the season now over and GB finishing runner up in the WCs again

There seems to be a certain amount of stability in the Elite League now after the demise of Hull a year ago. The quality appears to be steadily increasing, mainly due to the import players rather than the Brits, and crowds look pretty good. The only question mark is Edinburgh who imploded last season. It sounds as though the league may be running out of patience with Scott Neil a bit. I hope that they are not squeezed out of the league at a future date when new teams are added, as they're my second favourite team in the league behind Storm.

MK are joining in the 17-18 season, most likely joined by another team (Leeds, Blackburn, Aberdeen?) with London (and I'm guessing another, potentially Dublin) hopefully joining the following season.

I'm expecting another tight season at the top between Sheffield, Nottingham, Cardiff and Belfast, possibly Braehead too getting a little bit of help from the conference system.

Of the rest of the teams, it will be interesting to see how Danny Stewart gets on at the Blaze who have been struggling the past few seasons in the league (but playing very well in the playoffs). Hopefully the Caps can put together a competitive team for the whole season.

For the Storm, last season was pretty difficult, mainly due to depth issues and the challenge of putting together a whole team/organisation from scratch in 6 weeks. The signings of Prince & Harding are good starts on the Brit front (last season Phillips and Davies both commuted to/from Hull for games/training), hopefully Swindlehurst joins too. Cartier looks a good signing as well (former CIS all-star). I'd like them to make the top 8 this season.

It sounds as though the league is going to start and finish a week later this year, hopefully this does not impact the Team GB preparations for the WC.

One thing I am disappointed at is the raising of the import limit to 14. Unfortunately, all of the clubs treat this is a target rather than a limit. It sounds as though Storm will have 3 or 4 British outskaters next season which is way too few. I would be a bit happier if this was a short term measure that was combined with a commitment to investing in youth training etc however this isn't the case. I disagree wholeheartedly with (league chairman) Tony Smith when he says the league is not a development league. I'm pretty sure every other league in the world (including the NHL) is committed to developing young players to the required standard. I'm not sure why we feel the need to be different.

Some things that appear to be on the agenda for the league, are changing the playoffs to a series and having the Challenge Cup semis & final over a single weekend. No idea if these are going to happen any time soon though

[Calv]

For the EPL, who knows whats going on. I'm confident that the league will have between 0 & 10 teams, but Bracknell need to raise £125,000 before they can start the season and Manchester currently don't have a rink to play out of Also, is it 4 or 5 imports next season!?!?!

Phoenix look like they've lost about half of their team for this season, Archer will be a big loss in particular. Definitely a rebuilding season for them (in more ways than one!).

In the NIHL South, Chelmsford will be looking to continue their domination of both divisions. Some good news is that Romford's new rink is finally getting built so they should be moving back there in 17-18. I hope a NIHL S1 team stays in Lee Valley (particularly if I still live within walking distance of the rink!)

[MWE]

the Steelers have announced a few things while I was on holiday

Cullen Eddy has retired
Colton Fretter has signed a new one year deal
Fredrik Vestberg has left the club
Markus Nilsson has signed from Troja Lundby
Ervins Mustukovs has signed
We have also signed british international David Phillips
Rod Sarich has retired
Levi Nelson has signed a 2 year deal

We also have a 2 exhibition games with the Aalborg Pirates in August

That's everything from the last two weeks I think

[Calv]

Finally, the signing of the off-season so far (I realise there's still 4 months before the season starts!) has to be Jerry Andersson (former Coach/GM at Troja in Sweden) for Sheffield coming in as Assistant Coach. That gives them the strongest coaching team in the league I think. Hopefully they can surprise a few teams in the CHL. Nottingham have a good chance in the Continental Cup as well.

A few players to watch out for around the world next season:

Sam Duggan - Captain of the U18 GB team, currently playing in the Swedish Jrs for Orebro. Hopefully he's staying over there for a few more years. Don't think he'll get drafted, but one of the best prospects around for GB.

Mac Howlett - Just graduated from the OHA in Swindon, he's been playing U-16 hockey since he was 11. Now he is 16 he has just signed for SaiPa U-18 in Finland. His size might be a problem, but hopefully he'll be a good prospect in a few years.

Kieran Brown - Put up insane numbers in the UK U-16 league as a 14 yr old (91 points in 18 games) before moving to the states to play for Iowa Wild AAA U14 team. This past season he scored 72 points in 60 games in the US Bantam leagues. I've heard he is currently the best British prospect.

[MWE]

Is the draw for the CHL in May?

[Calv]

Yep, 3rd May

By some quirk of the seeding system, Steelers will definitely get Salzburg as the number 1 seed in their group. The other team can be any team from Pot 2 I think.

https://www.championshockeyleague.net/n ... draw/1690/

[MWE]

Not too long to wait then

[marksbros6]

Hope the Steelers do well in Europe, can only be good for the game in this country.

Bit worried about the state of the EPL to be honest. Both Bracknell and Phoenix look to be in a pickle. An 8 team league would just look a bit silly IMO.

[MWE]

Steelers have signed RW Jesse Schultz

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=11029

[Calv]

Steelers have signed RW Jesse Schultz

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=11029

Looks pretty good, played with (and has similar stats to) new Storm signing Mark Heatley (Dany's brother).

Belfast have applied to host the world championships next April. Hopefully they're successful. I'll try to get over there if they do

[Garethw87]

Hope the Steelers do well in Europe, can only be good for the game in this country.

Bit worried about the state of the EPL to be honest. Both Bracknell and Phoenix look to be in a pickle. An 8 team league would just look a bit silly IMO.

I can see the CHL becoming a good thing for UK hockey. If teams get behind it and fans realise how lucrative the exposure can be for their team and league its a good selling point to sponsors and even when recruiting players!

However I need to disagree about an 8 team league. If thats the natural order and how it needs to be then let's have 8 teams! I think the EPL needs to go ahead and increase to 5 imports though, it's clearly not a 'development league' anymore.

The new Euro Baseball League has launched with only 4 teams and plays games midweek... if they can do it why can't we

[Calv]

Phoenix have liquidated: https://m.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2539244

[marksbros6]

Looking like that 8-team league might be happening then!

Just don't like the point that everyone qualifies for the playoffs, diminishes that part of re competition for me?

[Calv]

Looking like that 8-team league might be happening then!

Just don't like the point that everyone qualifies for the playoffs, diminishes that part of re competition for me?

I have no idea what will happen to be honest, the whole Phoenix & Bees saga is just a wait and see for me. I see people who are in the know appear to be suggesting that the Phoenix operating company is no big deal, so perhaps Morris has sold the assets to someone else before liquidating his own company?!?! Or maybe it's another case of the iraqi minister of information (https://cdn.meme.am/instances/53529697.jpg). I'd imagine that the biggest (by far) creditor will be Neil Morris himself, but I hope no other companies have lost money due to this liquidation.

Also it raises some questions about the fans donations etc. IF he continues on as the Manchester Phoenix but wipes the slate clean by just starting another company then I would find that a bit dodgy.

As I said though, it's all a bit wait and see...!

[Calv]

Just as I post that: http://www.britishicehockey.co.uk/epihl ... quidation/

I sincerely hope they have not left any companies out of pocket with this move

[archibalduk]

It depends on whether the liquidation is a solvent liquidation or an insolvent liquidation. If it is a solvent liquidation then everybody gets paid off in full and Neil Morris can do as he wishes with the remainder (e.g. transfer assets to a new company). If it is an insolvent liquidation then the company (and Neil Morris) is subject to a lot of strict rules about what can and cannot be done - particularly in relation to how any assets are transferred to others (e.g. you cannot give "preferences" to some creditors - all creditors have to be treated correctly).

I wouldn't really read much into BIH's item. They refer to Freezing Point as being a holding company (i.e. it has subsidiary companies which actually do the trading/business) which I'm not sure is correct as Freezing Point trades as Manchester Phoenix. If they have got that wrong then I'm sure they could misunderstand other aspects. It is a hockey fansite after all and not a bunch of lawyers/accountants!

[Calv]

2 weeks for Phoenix & Bees to get things sorted for the league next year. No idea whether either of them will make it

[marksbros6]

It depends on whether the liquidation is a solvent liquidation or an insolvent liquidation. If it is a solvent liquidation then everybody gets paid off in full and Neil Morris can do as he wishes with the remainder (e.g. transfer assets to a new company). If it is an insolvent liquidation then the company (and Neil Morris) is subject to a lot of strict rules about what can and cannot be done - particularly in relation to how any assets are transferred to others (e.g. you cannot give "preferences" to some creditors - all creditors have to be treated correctly).

I wouldn't really read much into BIH's item. They refer to Freezing Point as being a holding company (i.e. it has subsidiary companies which actually do the trading/business) which I'm not sure is correct as Freezing Point trades as Manchester Phoenix. If they have got that wrong then I'm sure they could misunderstand other aspects. It is a hockey fansite after all and not a bunch of lawyers/accountants!

You need to write for them mate!

Phoenix have always (can't put my finger on exactly why) wound me up. Hated losing to them and was properly narked when they started pulling on heart-strings for donations and still putting out a team with 4 imports and Brits who were probably on a decent whack.

Bracknell by contrast cut the team down the the bare bones. Both in trouble now of course but can't help but feel (in retrospect) that some of that success that Phoenix had was built on the back of money that can't have been there?

Still: fantastic shame to lose either team. Was planning to visit each away rink next season (even Hull) and looks like there will be at least one less.

What's your thoughts Calv? you've still got the Phoenix on your avatar (unlike your bro ) so presuming you're still a fan/follower?

[Calv]

Tom Darnell has been posting a rules quiz on twitter: https://twitter.com/tomdarns it's been pretty interesting. I've got yesterday's wrong, but I've been right on the rest of them

[Calv]

It depends on whether the liquidation is a solvent liquidation or an insolvent liquidation. If it is a solvent liquidation then everybody gets paid off in full and Neil Morris can do as he wishes with the remainder (e.g. transfer assets to a new company). If it is an insolvent liquidation then the company (and Neil Morris) is subject to a lot of strict rules about what can and cannot be done - particularly in relation to how any assets are transferred to others (e.g. you cannot give "preferences" to some creditors - all creditors have to be treated correctly).

I wouldn't really read much into BIH's item. They refer to Freezing Point as being a holding company (i.e. it has subsidiary companies which actually do the trading/business) which I'm not sure is correct as Freezing Point trades as Manchester Phoenix. If they have got that wrong then I'm sure they could misunderstand other aspects. It is a hockey fansite after all and not a bunch of lawyers/accountants!

You need to write for them mate!

Phoenix have always (can't put my finger on exactly why) wound me up. Hated losing to them and was properly narked when they started pulling on heart-strings for donations and still putting out a team with 4 imports and Brits who were probably on a decent whack.

Bracknell by contrast cut the team down the the bare bones. Both in trouble now of course but can't help but feel (in retrospect) that some of that success that Phoenix had was built on the back of money that can't have been there?

Still: fantastic shame to lose either team. Was planning to visit each away rink next season (even Hull) and looks like there will be at least one less.

What's your thoughts Calv? you've still got the Phoenix on your avatar (unlike your bro ) so presuming you're still a fan/follower?

No idea really, since I left Manchester (almost 5 years ago now!) I've stopped following them as much (it's easier to follow the EIHL with webcasts and increased coverage etc.).

Firstly, a lot of people have said Bracknell made the correct decision cutting their cloth etc, however you have to remember that they did by not paying their players anymore. It sounds as though these players are still owed money, so I'm not sure the previous owners are quite as innocent as a lot of people seem to be making out. The new owners seem to be much better.

It's quite clear that Neil Morris made some bad decisions, falling out with Silver Blades was a bad idea (no idea about the claims made on eithere side) and getting in bed with Red Hockey didn't really end up particularly well. Clearly he should've made up and got Silver Blades to invest in the club (as they appeared to be willing to do). I was annoyed with the whole supporters trust thing, I think he should've set up a real supporteres trust where the supporters actually had some shares/control of the company. It was only after the supporters had invested £20k that he put shares up for sale (what happens to them in the new company, btw??), and obviously having invested £20k the supporters probably couldn't afford shares... Also, it's clear he doesn't want to lose control of the club and he set the share sale so that he would keep control of the club.

No idea about the iliquidation, lets see what comes out in the wash...!

With the rink, I am getting sceptical whether that's going to be ready in time. No planning permission yet, and either of the two sites sound as though they need pulling down (as suggested in the FOI papers by Morris himself) and rebuilding. It's not looking good on that front, although saying that I've never applied for planning permission or built a rink so I've no idea how long these things take.

[marksbros6]

Yeah regarding Bracknell it's not right that the players have been left out of pocket. Meant more from a 'sporting' perspective though in that they did let some players go and obviously try to get the wage-bill down.

To be honest for Phoenix it would be almost better at this stage if the club was put out of it's misery really? If 'Phoenix Hockey Club' has any future maybe it should go NIHL2 (N) and start again. Maybe a club run by the fans for the fans in the 'FC United' mould. I suspect many )of the remaining fans anyway) would either bite the bullet and go support Storm (at the 'old' rink).

That would leave the EPL a team short of course. Cross-league Cup again next season. Maybe if Oxford are invited I can see the unlikely fixture of Lightning/Oxford City Stars? Divided(ish) loyalties...

[Calv]

Yeah regarding Bracknell it's not right that the players have been left out of pocket. Meant more from a 'sporting' perspective though in that they did let some players go and obviously try to get the wage-bill down.

I agree with that on a sporting perspective, and I wasn't meaning you in particular, it's just that a lot of people seem to have forgotten that fact, whilst happily writing off Phoenix's owner.

To be honest for Phoenix it would be almost better at this stage if the club was put out of it's misery really? If 'Phoenix Hockey Club' has any future maybe it should go NIHL2 (N) and start again. Maybe a club run by the fans for the fans in the 'FC United' mould. I suspect many )of the remaining fans anyway) would either bite the bullet and go support Storm (at the 'old' rink).

That would leave the EPL a team short of course. Cross-league Cup again next season. Maybe if Oxford are invited I can see the unlikely fixture of Lightning/Oxford City Stars? Divided(ish) loyalties...

The problem with taking a step down is the lack of local players. The Jrs at Altrincham have seemingly been neglected for a long time, then there's also competition from Altrincham, Deeside, Widnes and Blackburn for NIHL level players, whereas at the EPL level there is less competition. The whole situation is a bit of a mess really, and sums up a lot of problems with British hockey.

Interesting to see what happens next season with a new crossover cup etc, teams have been selling season tickets for some time now with no guarantee of the number of games

[Calv]

So, 5 import EPL next season Crazy couple of days in British hockey...!

Not sure how I feel about it really, it looks as though most teams will be going with an import netminder next season. We could get to the crazy situation where, in the top 2 UK leagues, we have 4 or 5 British starting netminders out of 20 teams. We already have a lack of netminder development, and this decision will not help at all. Looks like UK hockey is taking the lazy way out as usual

In other news, it sounds as though the Phoenix liquidation was just to get rid of the debt, with some creditors not getting their money back (Neil Morris being the largest creditor), and then carrying on business as usual (I'm assuming with a couple of different suppliers). I thought we'd got past the days of this happening since, but it looks like we haven't .

I wonder if this will affect the new rink at all, if IceTech are one of the creditors then I feel like that could cause some problems

[marksbros6]

Maybe Morris wanted to get all this out of the way before commissioning ice-tech to start work on the new rink?

Bit shady to be honest. If it's just Morris effectively writing off his own debt would he need to liquidate the company for that? Couldn't he just say 'meh, my company, my money, I'll let 'the company' keep it?' (Where's Archi when you need him?)

As for the 5 imports; the only silver lining (because thre wasn't anything wrong with 4 imports really!) is that they are keeping the 'three on the ice' rule. So those teams with import netminders could still end up 2 import skaters against three? Interesting that it seems to be the smaller teams who are really happy with it and the bigger teams (bar Guildford) a bit less happy?

As for netminders; you guys will be able to tell me as I'm relatively 'new'. Who are we developing these netminders for? If it's team GB then how many do we really need? Bowns and 2 backups? The second back-up isn't likely to see any ice-time anyway... what was the zenith of British netminder-development in recent years, was there ever more than 2-3 of truly international/top-level standard?

if it's for the club teams then what difference does it make who keeps net as long as they're good?

[Calv]

As for netminders; you guys will be able to tell me as I'm relatively 'new'. Who are we developing these netminders for? If it's team GB then how many do we really need? Bowns and 2 backups? The second back-up isn't likely to see any ice-time anyway... what was the zenith of British netminder-development in recent years, was there ever more than 2-3 of truly international/top-level standard?

if it's for the club teams then what difference does it make who keeps net as long as they're good?

We should be developing netminders for the highest possible league, i.e. the NHL. Other countries manage it, yet they have similar standard home leagues and smaller attendances and fewer ice rinks. Look at Adam Vay from Hungary who just got signed to Minnesota, there's no reason why we shouldn't be developing players (not just netminders) to the highest level possible.

Recently we have Lyle, Murphy, & Bowns who have managed to get to a reasonably high level. Other than that, I can't think of many. Who's next?

Hedley? maybe but at his age Bowns was playing 50 games in the EPL with a save % of over 90.

Ben Churchfield? Currently playing in the States, looks pretty good and outperformed Hedley at the U-20's.

Jordan Marr is already 24 and needs to be getting regular EIHL time soon if he wants to be an international. Unfortunately, there's no opportunity at the Elite level because of the high number of import netmindres. Something that will soon happen in the EPL if the current trend continues...