The British Hockey Thread 2016-17

[marksbros6]

Would love to see a Brit in the NHL!

Never thought of it like that, always thought that when we're talking about netminders in particular it's with a view to Team GB, and I always think that for a sole position in the team how big a pool do you need. all it will mean is some international-level players missing out because Bowns/Murphy/Lyle (delete as applicable) are first-choice and backup.

We do need some younger 'back-ups' coming through though I suppose. I'm glad MK have got Hedley back anyway. Still very young and quite capable at EPL level in his own right. you are right in that the chances just aren't there at the moment but there have always been import netminders haven't there? Even back in the Superleague/BNL days?

[Calv]

Yep, British starting netminders in the EIHL era have been Bowns, Lyle, Murphy, Craze (for 1 season). A couple of netminders have played 15-20 games in a single season, but none of them ever kicked on to become full time starters.

EPL has only really moved to import netminders over the past couple of seasons (Auzins started the current trend).

[archibalduk]

The whole Manchester thing is pretty boring IMO. People have debated/argued it to death already and I don't think anybody other than those closely involved with the business will have any idea as to what is going on. The news release on the Phoenix website says pretty much nothing. The only thing of note is that the company is, according to the news release, undergoing insolvent liquidation which means an insolvency practitioner is now in control of the company. He will be investigating the affairs of the company, liquidating assets and distributing these to the creditors (and ultimately bringing the company to an end). As I mentioned yesterday, recent transactions can be undone by the liquidator (this is via court action but usually there is negotiation and a settlement is reached without it reaching court). If, for instance, any assets were transferred to another company in return for something/money that did not represent the full value of the asset then it can be challenged/undone by the liquidator (that's a very simple description of the rule). Also, if money has been paid some creditors in preference to others then this also can be challenged. The process can take years however.

The whole shares thing is not surprising. It is common to sell shares to investors which have very limited rights. The idea is for them to invest in, rather than run, the company (in theory, the investors are bringing money rather than expertise - this is a private company and not a public company after all).

I really hope Manchester and Bracknell survive but I'd be happy to see the back of Neil Morris (but not at the expense of Manchester of course). I wouldn't be surprised if either or both teams didn't last the whole of next season. Planning permission can take ages - often it is broken down into separate permissions with larger projects and there is often negotiation and requirements (e.g. the council can require that the applicant pay for improved roads, etc servicing the new rink).

The import limit is disappointing. It's of benefit to the likes of Guildford who can afford the extra import but not the likes of Sheffield, Bracknell, Manchester, etc. Surely it will just increase the gap...

[marksbros6]

I do think it's silly with clubs struggling and surely wanting to keep a 'healthy' league with 10 teams in it that the EPL are doing something that will increase the 'import arms-race'.

If it was something like 'teams that missed the playoffs are allowed to field an extra import' then maybe it would have some merit (in the whole sense that you could probably bring in an import player, maybe one that's already living here, of comparable quality to a top-2 line Brit for less than that British player). But if you're bringing in 5 TOP imports then it will only favour the teams with all the money. I think the Elite did something similar for 'new' teams once upon a time?

[Calv]

The whole Manchester thing is pretty boring IMO. People have debated/argued it to death already and I don't think anybody other than those closely involved with the business will have any idea as to what is going on.

You means it's boring to go over the same thing over and over again with limited new information...who knew!?!?

The news release on the Phoenix website says pretty much nothing.

Pretty standard for Phoenix PR's nowadays.

By the sounds of it, it was the smaller teams that voted for the extra import (Hull have recently been complaining about not being able to sign enough quality brits), whilst Basingstoke apparently suggested 4 imports including netminder, or 5 imports without netminder but this got rejected.

[Calv]

Yep, Elite League have previously allowed extra imports for the lower teams. Didn't really work, what usually happens is the teams with the bigger budgets end up near the top, and the lower budget teams end up down the bottom, regardless of the number of imports. What has started to work in the Elite League is the conference split, although this probably wouldn't be possible in the EPL

[archibalduk]

By the sounds of it, it was the smaller teams that voted for the extra import (Hull have recently been complaining about not being able to sign enough quality brits), whilst Basingstoke apparently suggested 4 imports including netminder, or 5 imports without netminder but this got rejected.

Really?! If true, that is very interesting. I guess they wouldn't request it unless they could afford it. But like you say, the good teams are always going to win regardless of import levels!

I have only really followed the EPL closely since moving to Guildford, but it seems every summer we have the same conversations about teams struggling financially and interesting rules changes!

[marksbros6]

I imagine it could be just getting in 'bodies' at all for the smaller teams. Look how short-benched Bracknell and Manchester were at times last season.

Providing someone's living here already; 'student' imports, imports who already live/work over here (like the NIHL-level guys seem to) then potentially you could get one of them in for less than a top-2 line Brit so there's some merit to that part of the argument I suppose?

And like I said the only silver lining is that the '3 on-the-ice' rule is still in effect, so it's not like you'll have 5 imports all out on the ice at once.

Easily favours teams like Guildford though. Telford too providing their budget is unchanged from the last 2 years. Surprised Basingstoke weren't more in favour...they could have played both their import goalies from last year!

[Calv]

At least hockey made the front page of the BBC! http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/ice-hockey/36323920

[archibalduk]

I imagine it could be just getting in 'bodies' at all for the smaller teams. Look how short-benched Bracknell and Manchester were at times last season.

Providing someone's living here already; 'student' imports, imports who already live/work over here (like the NIHL-level guys seem to) then potentially you could get one of them in for less than a top-2 line Brit so there's some merit to that part of the argument I suppose?

And like I said the only silver lining is that the '3 on-the-ice' rule is still in effect, so it's not like you'll have 5 imports all out on the ice at once.

Easily favours teams like Guildford though. Telford too providing their budget is unchanged from the last 2 years. Surprised Basingstoke weren't more in favour...they could have played both their import goalies from last year!

Yeah I still can't get my head around this one, but clearly the smaller clubs think it good. If Bracknell still haven't paid their players for the latter part of last season, I can't see how they can afford a fifth import this coming season - same with Manchester given their current apparent insolvency. I wouldn't be surprised if we hear on 1 June that neither team is competing this coming season. Maybe it's more the likes of Hull and Sheffield it'll really benefit. It certainly sounds like both are planning to make the most of the rule change.

[Calv]

As I mentioned earlier, I think the number of imports is basically irrelevant, the teams that end up near the top will probably be the teams with the bigger budgets, and the teams near the bottom will probably be the teams with the smaller budgets... I can't imagine an increase of 1 import will make much of a difference.

Medvescak Zagreb of the KHL are playing 2 pre season games in Cardiff against the Devils. I would go, but the train is pretty expensive from London

[marksbros6]

Might look into that. Cardiff isn't as far from Oxford?

Agree with your point about budgets...I was thinking more along the lines of the smaller teams being able to bring in a 'cheap' import (stepping up from NIHL maybe) if they're having trouble recruiting Brits. Whereas if they have their 4 imports they would be forced to fill out the roster with any brit passport-holder going. It's the only scenario where the 'imports are cheaper' argument holds!

If Manchester or Bracknell ice this season then I doubt they'll field a full compliment of imports. If they do then I bet a couple of them will be NIHL-calibre at best. Same with Hull and Sheffield. You're right though Guildford and Telford will just run with 5 'proper' imports and so will any team that wants to compete with them.

From the noise coming out from Basingstoke I think they might stick with 4, MK I reckon might recruit another to compete as we must really want to win something this season before moving up. If we were planning 3 forwards and Odrobny in net then I could see us entering the market for an import defenceman as well. Possibly meaning one of out 'youth' players making way for him.

[archibalduk]

Sounds interesting, but I imagine there must be a strong chance it'll be a typical dull pre-season game. If it were more like the Gardiner Cup then that'd be fun.

I'm all but certain I won't renew my season ticket. It seems a bit mad spending so much per game when the cost of flights, trains and hotels is factored in. Especially as I can watch streams for a fraction of the price. But maybe I'll change my mind...

[Calv]

an interesting quote about the Zagreb pre-season games

For those in UK/Scotland this training camp and games scheduled will be held to evaluate the expansion to UK.

Still not sure if this actually a possibility, but the guy is pretty clued up about the KHL

[marksbros6]

Sounds interesting, but I imagine there must be a strong chance it'll be a typical dull pre-season game. If it were more like the Gardiner Cup then that'd be fun.

I'm all but certain I won't renew my season ticket. It seems a bit mad spending so much per game when the cost of flights, trains and hotels is factored in. Especially as I can watch streams for a fraction of the price. But maybe I'll change my mind...

You had a ST last year mate? Madness! You must really love Flames, I got to plenty of games in MK but still works out cheaper to buy on a per-game basis.

Would love a KHL side in the UK. Only problem would be finding 5 (I think) locally trained players? Any ideas who would qualify (in your opinion) to be good enough?

[Calv]

I think the 5 local players is for Russian teams only? Zagreb had only 3 players born in Croatia in their squad last season (although they did have a number of players with a Croatian passport who were born elsewhere)

[MWE]

I think the 5 local players is for Russian teams only? Zagreb had only 3 players born in Croatia in their squad last season (although they did have a number of players with a Croatian passport who were born elsewhere)

I thought Russian teams can have just 5 imports rest of their team has to be Russian maybe I am wrong

For the teams from other countries they have to have 5 players that hold that countries passport but as I said maybe I am wrong.

[Thomaxius]

I think the limitation is 5 players that need to have UK passport, the trick is that Croatia has given a passport to many foreigners to dodge the rule (.

It would be very interesting to have an English KHL team, maybe it would also raise interest on hockey there.

[Calv]

Fair enough, I couldn't remember the exact ruling.

I think there's plenty of NA players with British passports knocking around, for example Danny Taylor (played in the KHL for Minsk & Zagreb), the Perlini brothers (although I doubt Brendan would come over), Scott Conway in a few years.

The World Championships 1B are being held in Belfast next year I might look in to going for the final few games or so. Will see how much it is.

Looks like the number of Swedes coming over to the Elite League is increasing. Last year Freddie Vertberg came over and was probably one of Sheffield's best players imo (not in terms of points scoring, but all round play), Mikael Lidhammar played well for Dundee and is back for next season. Conny Stromberg came over for the end of the season at Sheffield as well, and he looked okay. Today, Coventry have signed Robin Bergman who scored 24 goals in Denmark last year, and Braehead signed Daniel Åhsberg who was in Norway last year. Bergman looks top class, and should be one of Blaze's better players this season. I'm not so convinced by Åhsberg who looks like maybe he's struggled a bit since the 2011-12 season. It seems (looking at his stats only) that maybe he didn't live up to his early potential Seemed to do pretty well in Norway last year, however when I looked through his time in France I saw that he had similar stats to Peter Szabo (Telford Tigers EPL), Jens Eriksson (Guildford EPL), Matic Kralj (Guildford EPL) so I don't think he'll be a stand out player.

Apparently Sheffield are after 2 SHL players, but nothing's been done yet.

[MWE]

Vestberg was such a good player for us last season hope we get a few more like him

[kempelito]

How did Conny Strömberg do for the Steelers last season?

[MWE]

I thought he was quite good but at 40 years old he was never going to be asked to come along for another season.

[kempelito]

That's understandable. He has always been a solid point-producing forward though, except for his only season in SHL with Modo, he has averaged more than a point per game in Hockeyallsvenskan during his career, plus that he has had a good point-record in other countries as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywzstY4ThMM This is what I remember of him from Modo though

[Calv]

He seemed like he was good on the powerplay, but maybe doesn't have the legs anymore I didn't watch that much of him. There was an interesting interview with him here: http://www.hockeysverige.se/2016/03/08/ ... -fighters/ (in swedish!)

[Calv]

I'm on holiday for the next week, we better know how many teams are competing in the EPL next season by the time I get back