EHM1 Regen Testing (2016)

Post by **nino33** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:44 am

Here's the rest of the results from Test 1 (no players/staff added) at 2025
.

CA at 2025 by Nation - all players/ages

Nation & CA Range	Australia	Austria	Belarus	Belgium	Canada	Croatia	Czech Republic	Denmark	Estonia	Finland	France
190-200	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0
180-189	0	0	0	0	9	0	1	0	0	1	0
170-179	0	0	0	0	24	0	5	0	0	6	0
160-169	0	0	0	0	21	0	1	1	0	7	0
150-159	0	1	0	0	40	0	8	0	0	14	0
140-149	0	0	0	0	57	0	7	1	0	12	0
130-139	0	0	1	0	64	0	9	3	0	16	0
120-129	0	1	5	2	147	0	35	3	0	37	1
110-119	0	4	8	1	156	1	36	1	1	45	0
100-109	1	7	6	0	268	1	58	4	0	63	4

Nation & CA Range	Germany	Great Britain	Hong Kong	Hungary	Italy	Kazakhstan	Latvia	Lithuania	New Zealand	Norway	Poland
190-200	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
180-189	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
170-179	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
160-169	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
150-159	1	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	0
140-149	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
130-139	1	0	0	0	0	0	2	0	0	0	0
120-129	7	0	0	0	2	3	5	1	0	3	0
110-119	11	4	1	2	0	6	11	2	1	3	0
100-109	14	1	1	0	0	4	7	0	1	3	1

Nation & CA Range	Romania	Russia	Slovakia	Slovenia	Spain	Sweden	Switzerland	Turkey	Ukraine	USA
190-200	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1
180-189	0	0	0	0	0	2	0	0	0	3
170-179	0	3	0	0	0	6	0	0	0	11
160-169	0	1	1	0	0	11	2	0	0	23
150-159	0	11	3	0	0	24	6	0	0	36
140-149	0	18	2	1	0	19	3	0	1	33
130-139	0	16	5	1	0	20	5	0	0	27
120-129	1	56	14	1	0	97	13	0	1	95
110-119	0	59	18	0	0	104	7	0	0	110
100-109	0	70	29	0	1	129	30	1	0	128

PA at 2025 by Nation - all players/ages

Nation & PA Range	Australia	Austria	Belarus	Belgium	Canada	China	Chinese Taipei	Croatia	Czech Republic	Denmark
190-200	0	0	0	0	5	0	0	0	0	0
180-189	0	0	0	0	13	0	0	0	1	0
170-179	0	0	0	0	38	0	0	0	7	0
160-169	0	1	0	0	45	0	0	0	8	2
150-159	0	0	3	0	105	0	0	0	21	3
140-149	0	2	1	0	142	0	0	0	18	2
130-139	0	4	4	0	263	0	0	0	50	6
120-129	1	7	14	3	458	1	0	2	74	6
110-119	1	18	27	1	486	0	0	5	143	18
100-109	1	21	19	1	557	1	1	2	143	28

Nation & PA Range	Estonia	Finland	France	Germany	Great Britain	Hong Kong	Hungary	Iceland	Italy	Japan
190-200	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
180-189	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
170-179	0	11	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0
160-169	0	9	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
150-159	0	27	1	3	0	0	0	0	0	0
140-149	0	29	0	4	0	0	0	0	0	0
130-139	0	69	1	14	1	0	0	0	0	0
120-129	1	88	2	22	3	2	2	0	2	0
110-119	1	132	3	40	9	3	3	3	5	2
100-109	3	151	8	66	6	2	3	1	4	0

Nation & PA Range	Kazakhstan	Latvia	Lithuania	Mexico	Netherlands	New Zealand	Nigeria	Norway	Poland	Romania
190-200	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
180-189	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
170-179	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
160-169	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
150-159	1	5	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0
140-149	1	1	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0
130-139	1	10	1	0	0	0	0	5	1	0
120-129	12	17	2	0	0	2	0	6	0	1
110-119	12	16	0	0	1	0	0	16	2	1
100-109	17	32	1	1	2	0	1	16	0	0

Nation & PA Range	Russia	Serbia	Slovakia	Slovenia	South Africa	Spain	Sweden	Switzerland	Turkey	Ukraine	USA
190-200	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1
180-189	2	0	0	0	0	0	4	0	0	0	4
170-179	6	0	0	1	0	0	10	4	0	0	25
160-169	5	0	3	0	0	0	15	2	0	0	35
150-159	29	0	8	0	0	0	35	6	0	1	70
140-149	37	0	4	1	0	0	39	7	0	1	58
130-139	89	0	19	1	0	0	147	9	0	0	147
120-129	123	0	41	2	0	1	199	41	1	0	252
110-119	241	0	77	3	1	1	280	47	0	3	286
100-109	247	3	92	8	0	0	301	70	1	5	256

Post by **nino33** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:28 am

From Test 1 - CA data on youngest players in 2025

CANADA (2011 Born)
275 players, CA average 28.2
49 players 40-49 CA
12 players 50-59 CA
1 player with a 70 CA (138 PA)

USA (2011 Born)
48 players, CA average 31.8
10 players 40-49 CA
5 players 50-59 CA
1 player with a 64 CA (110 PA)

CANADA (2010 Born)
983 players, CA average 31.6
82 players 50-59 CA
21 players 60-69 CA
12 players 70-79 CA
3 players 80-89 CA

USA (2010 Born)
256 players, CA average 37.0
28 players 50-59 CA
15 players 60-69 CA
6 players 70-79 CA

CANADA (2009 Born)
1351 players, CA average 34.5
159 players 50-59 CA
42 players 60-69 CA
15 players 70-79 CA
5 players 80-89 CA
3 players 90-99 CA
1 player 111 CA (174 PA)

CZECH REPUBLIC (2009 Born)
67 players, CA average 32.5
9 players 50-59 CA
2 players 60-69 CA
0 players 70-79 CA
1 player 89 CA (150 PA)

FINLAND (2009 Born)
93 players, CA average 30.2
8 players 50-59 CA
5 players 60-69 CA
1 player 70 CA (148 PA)

RUSSIA (2009 Born)
98 players, CA average 41.7
21 players 50-59 CA
11 players 60-69 CA
0 players 70-79 CA
1 player 80 CA (132 PA)

SLOVAKIA (2009 Born)
64 players, CA average 33.2
4 players 50-59 CA
4 players 60-69 CA

SWEDEN (2009 Born)
208 players, CA average 34.4
25 players 50-59 CA
13 players 60-69 CA
0 players 70-79 CA
1 player 85 CA (143 PA)

USA (2009 Born)
563 players, CA average 36.1
82 players 50-59 CA
20 players 60-69 CA
7 players 70-79 CA
5 players 80-89 CA
1 player 95 CA (139 PA), 1 player 96 CA (130 PA)

CANADA (2008 Born)
1703 players, CA average 36.7
109 players 60-69 CA
30 players 70-79 CA
12 player 80-89 CA
9 players 90-99 CA
3 players 100-110 CA
1 player 115 CA (129 PA)

CZECH REPUBLIC (2008 Born)
166 players, CA average 32.0
7 players 60-69 CA
4 players 70-79 CA
2 players 80-89 CA

FINLAND (2008 Born)
206 players, CA average 29.1
9 players 60-69 CA
2 players 70-79 CA
4 players 80-89 CA
1 player 95 CA (138 PA)

RUSSIA (2008 Born)
128 players, CA average 46.9
20 players 60-69 CA
6 players 70-79 CA
1 player 81 CA (131 PA)
2 players 90 CA (132/159 PAs)
1 player 106 CA (149 PA)

SLOVAKIA (2008 Born)
103 players, CA average 35.9
6 players 60-69 CA
3 players 70-79 CA

SWEDEN (2008 Born)
336 players, CA average 32.5
18 players 60-69 CA
4 players 70-79 CA
1 player 84 CA (130 PA)
1 player 94 CA (142 PA), 1 player 95 CA (131 PA)

USA (2008 Born)
779 players, CA average 39.5
68 players 60-69 CA
21 players 70-79 CA
4 players 80-89 CA
5 players 90-99 CA
2 players 100-109 CA
6 players 110-119 CA

Post by **Alessandro** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:05 am

Looks like the game doesn't generate enough Russian players.
Nino, just one thing. As usual an incredible job.
Have you thought about comparing those number with what we have in DB?

Post by **nino33** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:35 am

Alessandro wrote:Looks like the game doesn't generate enough Russian players.
Nino, just one thing. As usual an incredible job.
Have you thought about comparing those number with what we have in DB?

No I hadn't! HaHa but since you asked...

The Updater’s exported_attributes file doesn’t have Nation & the exported_staff file doesn’t have CA/PA, so I can’t easily determine what the actual database contains…but I can look at CA from Test 1 at startup (the game still adds some players, and all players are given actual ratings so not exactly the same as the database, but very close I’d think)

Keep in mind Test 1 is with no players/staff added, Test 2 will show the results when all the add players/staff options are checked, and Primis is working on a Test 3 that will provide data from when only “Add Extra Junior Players” is checked

From Test 1 - CA data of youngest players at startup

CANADA (2005 Born)
7 players, 29.0 CA average

FINLAND (2005 Born)
6 players, CA average 30.7

RUSSIA (2005 Born)
6 players, CA average 31.5

SWEDEN (2005 Born)
5 players, CA average 25.8

USA (2005 Born)
4 players, CA average 34.5

CANADA (2004 Born)
6 players, CA average 30.3

FINLAND (2004 Born)
6 players, CA average 30.0

RUSSIA (2004 Born)
6 players, CA average 29.5

SWEDEN (2004 Born)
5 players, CA average 30.0

USA (2004 Born)
5 players, CA average 34.6

CANADA (2003 Born)
3 players, CA average 23.6

FINLAND (2003 Born)
3 players, CA average 26.0

RUSSIA (2003 Born)
2 players, CA average 36.5

SWEDEN (2003 Born)
5 players, CA average 38.0

USA (2003 Born)
4 players, CA average 25.3

CANADA (2002 Born)
127 players, CA average 19.5

FINLAND (2002 Born)
6 players, CA average 27.8

RUSSIA (2002 Born)
3 players, CA average 30.0

SWEDEN (2002 Born)
9 players, CA average 25.7

USA (2002 Born)
7 players, CA average 26.6

CANADA (2001 Born)
310 players, CA average 22.4 CA
8 players 50-59 CA
1 player 60 CA

FINLAND (2001 Born)
159 players, CA average 21.9
3 players 50-59 CA

RUSSIA (2001 Born)
18 players, CA average 26.6
0 players 50-59 CA

SWEDEN (2001 Born)
122 players, CA average 21.1
2 players 50-59 CA

USA (2001 Born)
344 players, CA average 21.8
11 players 50-59 CA

CANADA (2000 Born)
478 players, CA average 19.8
9 players 50-59 CA

FINLAND (2000 Born)
184 players, CA average 21.5
6 players 50-59 CA

RUSSIA (2000 Born)
27 players, CA average 28.6
0 players 50-59 CA

SWEDEN (2000 Born)
172 players, CA average 24.1
14 players 50-59 CA

USA (2000 Born)
436 players, CA average 22.3
10 players 50-59 CA
1 player 60 CA

CANADA (1999 Born)
898 players, CA average 23.2
42 players 50-59 CA
17 players 60-69 CA
5 players 70-79 CA
1 player 84 CA, 1 player 94 CA

FINLAND (1999 Born)
80 players, CA average 21.6
3 players 50-59 CA
1 player 65 CA, 1 player 75 CA

RUSSIA (1999 Born)
33 players, CA average 31.5
2 players 50-59 CA

SWEDEN (1999 Born)
164 players, CA average 28.0
12 players 50-59 CA
13 players 60-69 CA

USA (1999 Born)
118 players, CA average 29.9
8 players 50-59 CA
3 players 60-69 CA
1 player 78 CA
1 player 87 CA, 1 player 89 CA

CANADA (1998 Born)
562 players, CA average 29.9
57 players 50-59 CA
23 players 60-69 CA
13 players 70-79 CA
2 players 80-89 CA
2 players 90-99 CA
1 player 112 CA (175 PA)

FINLAND (1998 Born)
68 players, CA average 23.9
7 players 50-59 CA
3 players 60-69 CA
1 player 107 CA (151 PA)

RUSSIA (1999 Born)
99 players, CA average 43.0
22 players 50-59 CA
9 players 60-69 CA
3 players 70-79 CA
1 player 80 CA (80 PA)
1 player 94 CA (155 PA)
1 player 100 CA (137 PA)

SWEDEN (1999 Born)
149 players, CA average 33.0
19 players 50-59 CA
16 players 60-69 CA
7 players 70-79 CA
2 players 80-89 CA

USA (1998 Born)
142 players, CA average 35.6
19 players 50-59 CA
4 players 60-69 CA
4 players 70-79 CA
2 players 80-89 CA
1 player 99 CA (167 PA)

Post by **nino33** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:59 pm

Alessandro wrote:Looks like the game doesn't generate enough Russian players.

Not disagreeing with you, but I suggest that if you're comparing the number of players to other nations you should also compare it as a ratio to the number of available teams/leagues for them to play in (I had a brief look last night and it seemed maybe Russia has fewer available teams/leagues for younger players to play in, in some comparisons far fewer)

The other thing that I notice "at first glance" is it seems that the game might still be set closer to the old "100 Poor/120 Average/160 Good" NHL CA standards

Post by **nino33** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:32 pm

From Test 2 - CA data of youngest players at startup

CANADA (2005 Born)
6 players, CA average 31.3

FINLAND (2005 Born)
6 players, CA average 34.0

RUSSIA (2005 Born)
7 players, CA average 27.3

SWEDEN (2005 Born)
6 players, CA average 32.7

USA (2005 Born)
5 players, CA average 31.2

CANADA (2004 Born)
5 players, CA average 31.8

FINLAND (2004 Born)
6 players, CA average 32.8

RUSSIA (2004 Born)
8 players, CA average 28.3

SWEDEN (2004 Born)
6 players, CA average 34.8

USA (2004 Born)
6 players, CA average 28.5

CANADA (2003 Born)
6 players, CA average 28.3

FINLAND (2003 Born)
5 players, CA average 25.2

RUSSIA (2003 Born)
7 players, CA average 27.3

SWEDEN (2003 Born)
3 players, CA average 33.3

USA (2003 Born)
5 players, CA average 29.6

CANADA (2002 Born)
672 players, CA average 20.3
40 players 40-49 CA
8 players 50-59 CA
1 player 60 CA

FINLAND (2002 Born)
5 players, CA average 27.4

RUSSIA (2002 Born)
8 players, CA average 29.6

SWEDEN (2002 Born)
9 players, 30.34 CA average

USA (2002 Born)
10 players, CA average 23.5

CANADA (2001 Born)
910 players, CA average 22.7
66 players 40-49 CA
22 players 50-59 CA
3 players 60-69 CA

FINLAND (2001 Born)
602 players, CA average 20.9
37 players 40-49 CA
8 players 50-59 CA
1 player 61 CA

RUSSIA (2001 Born)
41 players, CA average 19.2
1 player 44 CA
1 player 52 CA

SWEDEN (2001 Born)
400 players, CA average 21.8
30 players 40-49 CA
4 players 50-59 CA

USA (2001 Born)
686 players, CA average 22.9
48 players 40-49 CA
16 players 50-59 CA
1 player 66 CA

CANADA (2000 Born)
824 players, CA average 21.2
61 players 40-49 CA
18 players 50-59 CA

FINLAND (2000 Born)
537 players, CA average 20.7
33 players 40-49 CA
6 players 50-59 CA

RUSSIA (2000 Born)
49 players, CA average 23.1
5 players 40-49 CA

SWEDEN (2000 Born)
400 players, CA average 22.6
40 players 40-49 CA
19 players 50-59 CA

USA (2000 Born)
901 players, CA average 21.5
50 players 40-49 CA
18 players 50-59 CA
2 players 60-69 CA

CANADA (1999 Born)
1210 players, CA average 22.4
45 players 50-59 CA
16 players 60-69 CA
4 players 70-79 CA
1 player 84 CA (98 PA)
1 player 90 CA (159 PA)

FINLAND (1999 Born)
255 players, CA average 22.9
15 players 50-59 CA
4 players 60-69 CA
1 player 74 CA (116 PA)

RUSSIA (1999 Born)
51 players, CA average 27.4
1 player 52 CA (124 PA)

SWEDEN (1999 Born)
325 players, CA average 25.7
22 players 50-59 CA
13 players 60-69 CA
1 player 70 CA (170 PA)

USA (1999 Born)
145 players, CA average 28.4
12 players 50-59 CA
1 player 61 CA (156 PA)
1 player 70 CA (167 PA)
1 player 87 CA (104 PA)
1 player 90 CA (130 PA)

CANADA (1998 Born)
585 players, CA average 28.8
55 players 50-59 CA
22 players 60-69 CA
14 players 70-79 CA
3 players 80-89 CA
1 player 114 CA (153 PA)

FINLAND (1998 Born)
174 players, CA average 23.4
20 players 50-59 CA
4 players 60-69 CA
1 player 70 CA (166 PA), 1 player 75 CA (174 PA)
1 player 108 CA (176 PA)

RUSSIA (1998 Born)
102 players, CA average 43.4
25 players 50-59 CA
9 players 60-69 CA
3 players 70-79 CA
2 players 80-89 CA
1 player 90 CA (152 PA)
1 player 100 CA (132 PA)

SWEDEN (1998 Born)
303 players, CA average 29.4
34 players 50-59 CA
20 players 60-69 CA
8 players 70-79 CA
3 players 80-89 CA

USA (1998 Born)
188 players, CA average 33.0
20 players 50-59 CA
9 players 60-69 CA
4 players 70-79 CA
2 players 80 CA (82 PA and 124 PA)
1 player 100 CA (177 PA)

Post by **nino33** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:25 pm

Alessandro wrote:Looks like the game doesn't generate enough Russian players.

Not sure if it makes a difference, but I'm only looking at "First Nation" and not "Second Nation"

I don't think I'm noticing any more or less players with a Second Nation than normal, but I do notice many countries of the former USSR when compiling the CA data - from the youngest ages in addition to players from Russia there are also players whose First Nation is Armenia, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania and Ukraine (I'm sure some of these/the usual amount have Russia as a Second Nation)

Post by **nino33** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:33 am

Here's the first part of the results from Test 2 (all possible players/staff added) at 2025
.

BIRTH YEAR	2002	2003	2004	2005	2006	2007	2008	2009	2010	2011
PA Range/Player Age	22-23	21-22	20-21	19-20	18-19	17-18	16-17	15-16	14-15	13-14
190-200	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0
180-189	2	0	0	0	1	0	0	1	0	0
170-179	5	1	1	0	0	1	0	1	1	1
160-169	12	1	2	2	3	1	6	3	5	0
150-159	10	9	3	5	3	4	4	5	1	2
140-149	14	3	10	6	7	4	6	11	5	3
130-139	33	7	18	13	23	26	25	29	13	3
120-129	56	35	28	32	23	60	33	37	16	6
110-119	74	42	54	55	60	117	108	89	47	8
100-109	80	77	78	74	95	129	138	69	24	10

BIRTH YEAR	1992	1993	1994	1995	1996	1997	1998	1999	2000	2001
PA Range/Player Age	32-33	31-32	30-31	29-30	28-29	27-28	26-27	25-26	24-25	23-24
190-200	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	2	3
180-189	0	0	0	1	1	1	0	0	4	3
170-179	2	3	4	0	1	5	11	5	20	21
160-169	4	1	6	1	3	8	11	9	29	21
150-159	11	6	10	8	8	8	20	16	44	59
140-149	11	12	5	6	9	13	17	17	29	31
130-139	30	28	29	25	14	31	23	37	68	79
120-129	57	37	47	35	44	61	77	87	145	164
110-119	54	38	52	51	54	62	64	85	142	138
100-109	62	46	48	49	41	51	54	74	156	162

BIRTH YEAR	1982	1983	1984	1985	1986	1987	1988	1989	1990	1991
PA Range/Player Age	42-43	41-42	40-41	39-40	38-39	37-38	36-37	35-36	34-35	33-34
190-200	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	0
180-189	0	0	0	1	1	0	1	2	2	0
170-179	0	0	0	1	1	1	1	2	2	3
160-169	0	0	0	1	0	2	3	5	4	2
150-159	0	0	0	0	1	3	5	5	6	6
140-149	0	0	0	0	3	5	3	6	15	12
130-139	0	0	0	1	0	4	9	10	30	43
120-129	0	0	0	0	0	4	8	15	29	35
110-119	0	0	0	0	0	2	3	7	20	39
100-109	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	6	24	42

Here's a look at the older players and their CA/PA (players with a 150+ PA).....

Year of Birth - Name CA/PA
1985 - Alexander Ovechkin 136/186
1985 - Shea Weber 127/178
1985 - Loui Eriksson 116/160
1986 - Evgeni Malkin 136/180
1986 - Ben Bishop 132/170
1986 - Alexander Edler 105/154
1987 - Nicklas Bäckström 128/172
1987 - Kris Letang 122/168
1987 - Nick Foligno 118/160
1987 - Dan Sexton 106/158
1987 - Bobby Ryan 107/156
1987 - Jack Johnson 105/152
1988 - Jonathan Toews 184/192
1988 - Patrick Kane 144/182
1988 - Sergei Bobrovsky 141/170
1988 - Max Pacioretty 136/166
1988 - Semyon Varlamov 128/164
1988 - Kyle Okposo 118/162
1988 - Kaspars Daugavins 110/156
1988 - Scott Darling 121/154
1988 - Erik Johnson 112/154
1988 - Wayne Simmonds 116/150
1988 - Nick Bonino 112/150
1989 - Braden Holtby 182/182
1989 - Jamie Benn 144/180
1989 - P.K. Subban 143/176
1989 - Ryan McDonagh 142/174
1989 - Logan Couture 135/166
1989 - Kyle Turris 136/166
1989 - Kevin Shattenkirk 138/166
1989 - Jakub Vorácek 124/164
1989 - Harri Säteri 139/163
1989 - Chris Tanev 136/158
1989 - Mike Hoffman 114/154
1989 - Brandon Sutter 111/152
1989 - Colin Wilson 114/152
1989 - Jared Spurgeon 134/150
1990 - John Tavares 184/186
1990 - Erik Karlsson 180/180
1990 - Victor Hedman 178/178
1990 - Alex Pietrangelo 148/174
1990 - Travis Hamonic 166/166
1990 - Tyler Johnson 148/166
1990 - Derek Stepan 144/166
1990 - Jan Kovár 139/161
1990 - Nikita Feoktistov 132/158
1990 - Jordan Eberle 132/158
1990 - Jakob Silfverberg 135/154
1990 - Michael Del Zotto 142/152
1990 - Anders Nilsson 136/152
1990 - Zach Bogosian 138/152
1991 - Vladimir Tarasenko 174/174
1991 - Oliver Ekman-Larsson 172/172
1991 - Taylor Hallg 168/170
1991 - Matt Duchene 150/160
1991 - Ondrej Palát 148/160
1991 - Tyson Barrie 158/158
1991 - Artemi Panarin 157/158
1991 - Chris Kreider 148/158
1991 - Nick Leddy 154/154
1991 - Simon Després 150/150
1991 - Cody Eakin 132/150
1992 - Tyler Seguin 177/178
1992 - Ryan Johansen 170/172
1992 - Evgeny Kuznetsov 168/168
1992 - Gabriel Landeskog 168/168
1992 - Justin Faulk 162/162
1992 - Brandon Saad 160/162
1992 - Brandon Gormley 157/159
1992 - Jani Hakanpää 159/159
1992 - Stephen Johns 153/154
1992 - Jamie Oleksiak 154/154
1992 - Jaden Schwartz 147/152
1992 - Petr Mrázek 150/152
1992 - Christian Thomas 142/151
1992 - Mikael Granlund 143/151
1992 - Mark Stone 148/150
1992 - Vladislav Namestnikov 143/150
1992 - Michael Parks 114/150

Post by **nino33** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:27 am

nino33 wrote:The other thing that I notice "at first glance" is it seems that the game might still be set closer to the old "100 Poor/120 Average/160 Good" NHL CA standards

More and more I'm thinking the CA increase in the database is an issue

When I first discovered EHM I was a firm believer in the available databases all had players that were significantly overrated (not some, almost all/all players).....over time I stopped bringing it up/trying to convince others, and even came to see some value in the current way things are done.....but more and more it seems to me reasonable to think an NHL with CA ranges much closer to the 100 Poor/120 Average from the original guidelines make way more sense and would be better for gameplay

What "got me thinking about it again" was the current testing I'm doing and noticing the CA of old star/superstar NHLers when they play well into their 30s.....I'm seeing such former players still playing in the 105-125 CA range, which would still be NHL Poor/Average under the EHM07 CA guidelines, but in most cases many would be well below Poor with the current guidelines as 4th liners are typically in the mid/high 120s

In the current testing/data compiling I also noticed the large amount of players in the 100-140 CA/PA range for every Birth Year (see comments on the Draft below)

Three issues with the game that I think maybe (likely?) connect most significantly to the database and not the game/coding are.....

the few players age 18-19 that make the jump to the NHL every year would be able to make it if the original 100/120 guidelines represented Poor/Average, but as long as Average NHL CA is almost 140 I don't see it happening - McDavid's current 146 CA would make him the special player he is without even hitting the "Good" Range immediately based on the original guidelines, but as is he's barely above an average NHLer; it seems that for players like McDavid and Eichel and Ekbland to be properly represented with the current guidelines their CAs at the Draft would need to be 160ish
the other thing is trading.....the "scrubs" (players in the 100-120 range) that are said to be easy to trade for value wouldn't be scrubs/AHLers under the old guidelines, but are with current practices (which have always been used AFAIK); does the Reputation system connect to CA guidelines that are lower and not actually used in the database creation? seems likely to me
the Draft would have much more "depth" if players in the 120-140 range had the original value they were given (Average to Above Average) but instead they're 3rd/4th liners - when I look at the data I see that if players were Average/Above Average in the 120-140 PA range each draft year would have 50-100 more potential NHLers in it! making later round drafting much better!.....but as it is Average/Above Average is only a dozen or two players, with a handful of Top players above them (resulting in not much "possible NHL talent" being available after the 1st round)

If the game is still mostly/totally following the old guidelines, perhaps these issues wouldn't be able to be easily addressed by Riz because they'd require significant recoding?

I don't think this is a "current problem" or even a "recent problem" - IMO (from significant research/testing over the years) the default database was not well put together/didn't follow guidelines and the issues that resulted have carried on ever since

Post by **nino33** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:20 am

Here's the rest of the results from Test 2 (all available players/staff added) at 2025
.

CA at 2025 by Nation - all players/ages

Nation & CA Range	Austria	Belarus	Bulgaria	Canada	Croatia	Czech Republic	Denmark	Finland	France	Germany
190-200	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	1	0	0
180-189	0	0	0	6	0	0	0	0	0	0
170-179	1	0	0	21	0	4	0	4	0	0
160-169	0	0	0	35	0	2	0	14	0	1
150-159	1	0	0	59	0	8	2	11	0	0
140-149	2	0	0	62	0	11	1	18	0	0
130-139	0	1	0	43	0	9	1	12	1	2
120-129	6	2	0	193	0	24	3	73	0	4
110-119	2	6	0	170	0	42	1	78	2	6
100-109	5	3	1	245	1	58	5	89	0	9

Nation & CA Range	Great Britain	Hong Kong	Hong Kong	Hungary	Iceland	Israel	Italy	Kazakhstan	Latvia	Lithuania
190-200	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
180-189	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
170-179	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
160-169	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
150-159	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	0
140-149	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
130-139	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	1
120-129	5	1	1	0	1	2	0	2	7	0
110-119	4	1	1	0	0	1	2	0	5	1
100-109	8	3	3	1	0	0	1	2	5	0

Nation & CA Range	Mexico	New Zealand	Norway	Romania	Russia	Slovakia	Slovenia	South Africa	Spain	Sweden
190-200	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
180-189	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	2
170-179	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	6
160-169	0	0	0	0	6	1	0	0	0	13
150-159	0	0	0	0	10	0	0	0	0	19
140-149	0	0	0	0	15	1	0	0	0	28
130-139	0	0	0	0	12	5	0	0	0	19
120-129	1	1	0	0	28	6	0	0	0	76
110-119	0	0	3	0	34	7	1	3	0	102
100-109	0	0	7	1	48	23	2	0	2	148

Nation & CA Range	Switzerland	Ukraine	USA
190-200	0	0	1
180-189	0	0	3
170-179	1	0	11
160-169	1	0	15
150-159	3	0	35
140-149	3	0	49
130-139	1	0	31
120-129	8	0	69
110-119	11	0	110
100-109	18	1	148

PA at 2025 by Nation - all players/ages

Nation & PA Range	Australia	Austria	Belarus	Belgium	Bulgaria	Canada	Chinese Taipei	Croatia	Czech Republic	Denmark
190-200	0	0	0	0	0	6	0	0	0	0
180-189	0	0	0	0	0	11	0	0	1	0
170-179	0	3	0	0	0	66	0	0	7	0
160-169	0	1	0	0	0	85	0	0	12	1
150-159	0	1	1	0	0	183	0	0	27	4
140-149	0	4	3	0	0	163	0	0	24	3
130-139	0	6	5	0	0	356	1	0	66	5
120-129	0	11	7	2	1	598	2	2	112	8
110-119	2	20	27	4	0	665	2	4	187	21
100-109	2	22	28	2	1	703	0	5	193	26

Nation & PA Range	Estonia	Finland	France	Germany	Great Britain	Greece	Hong Kong	Hungary	Iceland	Israel	Italy
190-200	0	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
180-189	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
170-179	0	21	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
160-169	0	20	1	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
150-159	0	49	0	1	1	0	0	0	0	0	0
140-149	0	39	0	2	0	0	0	0	1	1	0
130-139	1	100	2	20	0	0	1	0	0	0	0
120-129	0	215	4	30	24	0	4	3	2	4	3
110-119	0	223	5	55	29	0	5	6	2	4	6
100-109	2	256	4	81	40	1	4	3	3	1	9

Nation & PA Range	Japan	Kazakhstan	Latvia	Lithuania	Luxembourg	Mexico	Netherlands	New Zealand	Nigeria	Norway
190-200	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
180-189	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
170-179	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
160-169	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
150-159	0	1	4	0	0	0	0	0	0	1
140-149	0	0	4	0	0	0	0	0	0	1
130-139	0	2	10	1	0	0	0	0	0	5
120-129	0	7	18	1	0	1	3	1	0	13
110-119	0	14	19	0	0	0	4	3	0	12
100-109	2	17	23	3	1	2	5	1	1	27

Nation & PA Range	Poland	Romania	Russia	Serbia	Slovakia	Slovenia	South Africa	Spain	Sweden	Switzerland	Turkey
190-200	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
180-189	0	0	2	0	0	0	0	0	6	1	0
170-179	0	0	2	0	0	1	0	0	14	2	0
160-169	0	0	13	0	6	0	0	0	36	1	0
150-159	0	0	31	0	5	0	0	0	43	5	0
140-149	0	0	38	0	3	0	0	0	60	8	0
130-139	0	0	89	0	24	2	0	0	180	12	0
120-129	0	2	116	0	43	4	4	2	296	48	1
110-119	1	2	242	0	83	3	2	2	376	49	1
100-109	2	3	258	1	100	9	2	1	377	90	1

Nation & PA Range	Ukraine	United Arab Emirates	USA
190-200	0	0	3
180-189	0	0	7
170-179	0	0	32
160-169	0	0	54
150-159	0	0	99
140-149	0	0	72
130-139	3	0	185
120-129	0	0	357
110-119	3	1	375
100-109	5	0	358

Post by **Manimal** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:11 am

Nino, do you have any research with league average CA?
I think that could give us more definite result in regard to our CA guidelines than research by nation.

You make some good points and I need to consult CJ (and hopefully Riz ) to see if we should change our guidelines.

Post by **nino33** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:11 pm

Manimal wrote:Nino, do you have any research with league average CA?

No, but I'll see what I can do

Post by **Alessandro** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:15 pm

nino33 wrote:
Alessandro wrote:Looks like the game doesn't generate enough Russian players.
Not sure if it makes a difference, but I'm only looking at "First Nation" and not "Second Nation"

I don't think I'm noticing any more or less players with a Second Nation than normal, but I do notice many countries of the former USSR when compiling the CA data - from the youngest ages in addition to players from Russia there are also players whose First Nation is Armenia, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania and Ukraine (I'm sure some of these/the usual amount have Russia as a Second Nation)

I admit I am not following you. If in the DB they are set to have more than one nation, then they should be like that.

Post by **Alessandro** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:19 pm

nino33 wrote:
What "got me thinking about it again" was the current testing I'm doing and noticing the CA of old star/superstar NHLers when they play well into their 30s.....I'm seeing such former players still playing in the 105-125 CA range, which would still be NHL Poor/Average under the EHM07 CA guidelines, but in most cases many would be well below Poor with the current guidelines as 4th liners are typically in the mid/high 120s

I think you are right here.
What would you suggest for the NHL as of poor - average - good - top CA?
Starting from here we may (once again, sic) try and compile new CA ranges for the different leagues.

Post by **nino33** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:44 pm

nino33 wrote:
Manimal wrote:Nino, do you have any research with league average CA?
No, but I'll see what I can do

I think our best idea of "what the game does" will be from the 2035 tests (or even better 2045 tests, assuming I get that far)
I've just started compiling the 2025 data, and I see a lot of names I recognize

Alas it'll be a fair number of days (next week?) before I get to 2035, as I'm down to one testing computer from three, and while it's been running 24/7 since I reached 2025 in my testing, so far I've only simmed 3 of the 20 years needed to get Test 1/Test 2 up to 2035

But I'm working on it!

Post by **nino33** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:54 pm

Alessandro wrote:
nino33 wrote:
Alessandro wrote:Looks like the game doesn't generate enough Russian players.
Not sure if it makes a difference, but I'm only looking at "First Nation" and not "Second Nation"

I don't think I'm noticing any more or less players with a Second Nation than normal, but I do notice many countries of the former USSR when compiling the CA data - from the youngest ages in addition to players from Russia there are also players whose First Nation is Armenia, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania and Ukraine (I'm sure some of these/the usual amount have Russia as a Second Nation)
I admit I am not following you. If in the DB they are set to have more than one nation, then they should be like that.

I'm saying all the actual data I'm posting looks ONLY at First Nation

In the database and in the game they are set to have more than one Nation, but compiling data takes hours and hours, and has to be limited for ease of compiling/understanding, and so the Second Nation is NOT included in any of my data (it still exists in the database/ingame as always)

If 100% of the Russians you're looking at in game are ALWAYS First Nation Russia then the data I'm posting is 100% reflective of your experiences while playing.....but if any Russians you're looking at ingame (say while running the Russian National Team, or when looking at required Russian players in the KHL), if any of these Russians have Russia as "Second Nation" then you need to keep that in mind when looking at the data, as the data I've provided shows ONLY First Nation

Essentially I'm saying I suspect that some of the players considered "Russian" by you ingame might show up in one of the columns for those countries that were formerly part of Russia when it was the USSR (because they have Russia as their Second Nation)

Post by CJ » Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:07 pm

I've been many days away so I haven't had the time to follow everything here at TBL and your good researching

Just took a sneak peak today.

I do understand everything what is said here, and agree.

Basically what I pointed out last year when we started to change the guidelines was that I didn't like that NHL used almost 50% of the whole scale of CA in-game (100-200).
This results that all other leagues don't have much CA room to move around with. For example I've heard that there's not much difference between poor and good players in British leagues; scoring/talent wise.

This was essentially the reason why I recommended to raise the CA guidelines of some leagues.

Post by **nino33** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:08 pm

Alessandro wrote:
nino33 wrote:
What "got me thinking about it again" was the current testing I'm doing and noticing the CA of old star/superstar NHLers when they play well into their 30s.....I'm seeing such former players still playing in the 105-125 CA range, which would still be NHL Poor/Average under the EHM07 CA guidelines, but in most cases many would be well below Poor with the current guidelines as 4th liners are typically in the mid/high 120s
I think you are right here.
What would you suggest for the NHL as of poor - average - good - top CA?
Starting from here we may (once again, sic) try and compile new CA ranges for the different leagues.

I'm not even sure/convinced our CA ranges are a problem (but there's enough signs/indicators that I thought "this needs to be looked at/considered further" - testing often leads to more testing! HaHa)

By "connecting the dots" it seems to me some issues could maybe be addressed by CA range changes, OR.....

Riz could say "it's a coding issue that I just haven't got to yet"
Regarding the issues I mentioned (teenagers playing in the NHL successfully, trade value of players, draft quality), maybe Riz has thought about this and has currently unimplemented plans to address things via coding

Post by **nino33** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:52 pm

nino33 wrote:Alas it'll be a fair number of days (next week?) before I get to 2035, as I'm down to one testing computer from three, and while it's been running 24/7 since I reached 2025 in my testing, so far I've only simmed 3 of the 20 years needed to get Test 1/Test 2 up to 2035

Good news! Hopefully it lasts (fingers crossed!)

After taking a bunch of days of to rest, it seems my laptop's working again (not shutting down!)

Post by **Alessandro** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:06 pm

nino33 wrote: Essentially I'm saying I suspect that some of the players considered "Russian" by you ingame might show up in one of the columns for those countries that were formerly part of Russia when it was the USSR (because they have Russia as their Second Nation)

Yes, I understand now. Some players may exist, but it shoulnd't be a significative number. There are many of them who are set as Canadian right now due to the game not being able to correct recognize imports in the CHL.
But frankly I doubt that it has a significant impact on the test.

Post by **Alessandro** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:11 pm

nino33 wrote: I'm not even sure/convinced our CA ranges are a problem

Didn't you write it in banner headlines a few posts earlier?

Post by **nino33** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:04 pm

Alessandro wrote:
nino33 wrote: I'm not even sure/convinced our CA ranges are a problem
Didn't you write it in banner headlines a few posts earlier?

No, I wrote "More and more I'm thinking" the CA increase in the database is an issue - not a conclusion

And I also wrote "I think our best idea of what the game does will be from the 2035 tests (or even better 2045 tests, assuming I get that far)"

And then I wrote "I'm not even sure/convinced our CA ranges are a problem but there's enough signs/indicators that I thought this needs to be looked at/considered further" & I also said "Riz could say it's a coding issue that I just haven't got to yet"

I've told Riz about things/linked this thread & I'm continuing with the testing (and now looking at Leagues too), so I'm still in the "needs to be looked at/considered further" stage as far as I'm concerned

Post by **Alessandro** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:02 pm

nino33 wrote:
Alessandro wrote:
nino33 wrote: I'm not even sure/convinced our CA ranges are a problem
Didn't you write it in banner headlines a few posts earlier?
No, I wrote "More and more I'm thinking" the CA increase in the database is an issue - not a conclusion

And I also wrote "I think our best idea of what the game does will be from the 2035 tests (or even better 2045 tests, assuming I get that far)"

And then I wrote "I'm not even sure/convinced our CA ranges are a problem but there's enough signs/indicators that I thought this needs to be looked at/considered further" & I also said "Riz could say it's a coding issue that I just haven't got to yet"

I've told Riz about things/linked this thread & I'm continuing with the testing (and now looking at Leagues too), so I'm still in the "needs to be looked at/considered further" stage as far as I'm concerned

Ok. Having Riz passing by wouldn't hurt either

Post by **nino33** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:38 am

FYI - to anyone trying to do anything like this, or look at data in a League, you have to be really careful and double/triple check what the EHM Assistant produces.....I've recently gotten in the habit of not using many columns to avoid "issues" and among those columns I've been not using are all the team/league columns, and looking at "league data" lately reminds me of why HaHa the LNAH has a team named after a radio station that always results in messed up columns & today I discovered that the EIHL is just called "Elite League" in the EHM Assistant and at least one other league is also called Elite League! So you have to sort by League (which is called Division in the Assistant) and then by team.....also, if trying to fix such errors you can't sort and fix columns, you have to fix each row individually to avoid mixed up data

Post by **nino33** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:31 am

Here's the Pro League data from Test 1 (no players/staff added) at 2025
.

CA/PA averages at 2025 by League (League "Contracted To" as of August 29, 2025)
The left hand side is all players Contracted To (so includes signed minor pros/juniors and is much higher than the number that "play" in the League)
The right hand side is the number of teams x 23 players, so it is reasonably representative of those actually playing in the League)

LEAGUE	Total Players	CA average	CA range	PA average	PA range	--	Players (23 per team)	CA average	CA range	PA average	PA range
NHL	825	135.5	50-195	147.1	63-195	--	690	143.6	112-195	152.8	120-195
KHL	728	87.9	18-165	110.4	35-175	--	644	93.9	55-165	115.4	61-175
AHL	527	98.7	47-160	116.7	61-178	--	527	98.7	47-160	116.7	61-178
SHL	405	94.9	15-156	114.2	32-158	--	322	106.1	74-156	123.6	85-158
HockeyAllsvenskan	430	77.6	3-130	97.7	17-152	--	322	88.8	55-130	108.5	60-152
Liiga	440	86.7	23-157	108.4	41-170	--	345	98.1	60-157	119.0	80-170
NLA	330	72.3	4-150	94.0	7-156	--	276	79.5	47-150	100.5	60-156
Czech Extraliga	408	74.3	4-130	96.2	13-157	--	322	85.4	47-140	107.2	60-157
DEL	376	79.0	3-163	100.6	11-163	--	322	88.2	42-163	110.2	60-163
Erste Bank Eishockey Liga	366	69.0	1-140	93.0	10-148	--	276	82.8	50-140	107.6	62-148
Slovakian Liga	281	71.0	9-120	93.8	30-146	--	207	82.2	55-120	104.7	65-146
GET Ligaen	246	68.9	4-128	93.5	10-156	--	230	72.2	30-128	97.1	45-156
Metal Ligaen	284	57.4	3-125	80.8	10-144	--	230	67.2	30-125	92.0	42-144
EIHL	317	53.2	1-128	71.5	10-158	--	230	70.0	19-128	91.3	20-158
EPL	286	38.9	1-110	57.3	10-130	--	230	46.4	17-110	66.5	20-130
ECHL	437	81.1	35-128	101.1	44-137	--	437	81.1	35-128	101.1	44-137
LNAH	190	67.0	33-124	92.4	43-139	--	172	69.7	49-124	94.5	64-139

NOTE - PA range for "Players (23 per team)" is the PA average/range of those players listed in the CA range
NOTE - AHL/ECHL/LNAH data is the same on "both sides" as they don't have an average of 23 players per team

NHL/KHL CA Ranges comparison - Test 1 @2025 and TBL 8.2

CA RANGE	NHL	%	NHL (TBL 8.2)	%	--------	KHL	%	KHL (TBL 8.2)	%
# players	690	-	676	-	--------	644	-	531	-
190-200	3	0.4	1	0.1	--------	0	0.0	0	0.0
180-189	16	2.3	9	1.3	--------	0	0.0	0	0.0
170-179	56	8.1	18	2.7	--------	0	0.0	0	0.0
160-169	62	9.0	44	6.5	--------	2	0.3	1	0.1
150-159	130	18.8	81	12.0	--------	8	1.2	2	0.3
140-149	121	17.5	136	20.1	--------	11	1.7	11	2.1
130-139	114	16.5	209	30.9	--------	15	2.3	42	7.9
120-129	138	20.0	175	25.9	--------	61	9.5	62	11.7
110-119	50	7.2	3	0.4	--------	71	11.0	106	20.0
100-109	0	0.0	0	0.0	--------	73	11.3	100	18.8
80-99	0	0.0	0	0.0	--------	227	35.2	136	25.6
53-79	0	0.0	0	0.0	--------	176	27.3	70	13.2