Greetings!
The following data is compiled using TBL 8.2 at startup (using the EHM Assistant to export the data from a newly created game).
I'm looking at most Attributes now to try and provide more of a complete picture of the player & I'm looking at more refined CA levels too. Also, I'm ignoring the Faceoffs Attribute for now, allowing me to combine center/winger data for easier presentation
This information was initially posted in the Researchers Forum
I also commented in red font, and asked Riz to reply (when I was part of the researching team)
When I was a kid it was the goalies that grabbed my attention, and I played goal for over 20 years....so I thought the goalies should get some data review too!
G_BUTTERFLY
| KEY | KEY (SKATING) | ESSENTIAL | ESSENTIAL | ESSENTIAL | ESSENTIAL | ESSENTIAL | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| GOALTENDER BUTTERFLY | #/CA average | Off Role | Def Role | Recovery | Agility | Glove | Blocker | Reflexes | One-on-Ones | Positioning |
| worldwide | 1275/49.3 | 3.2 | 17.5 | 7.4 | 10.0 | 6.5 | 6.4 | 6.7 | 6.1 | 7.8 |
| CA 40-69 | 352/52.5 | 1.4 | 19.6 | 7.4 | 10.1 | 6.6 | 6.5 | 6.8 | 6.3 | 8.5 |
| CA 70-99 | 179/81.7 | 1.1 | 19.9 | 9.7 | 11.4 | 9.5 | 9.2 | 9.6 | 8.7 | 10.2 |
| CA 100-139 | 122/115.1 | 1.0 | 20.0 | 12.7 | 13.4 | 12.7 | 12.4 | 13.0 | 11.0 | 12.2 |
| CA 140-159 | 19/146.2 | 1.0 | 20.0 | 15.2 | 15.8 | 14.9 | 14.8 | 15.5 | 11.6 | 14.6 |
| CA 160-179 | 4/164.5 | 1.0 | 20.0 | 17.5 | 17.3 | 16.3 | 16.0 | 18.3 | 13.8 | 15.5 |
| CA 180-200 | 2/183.0 | 1.0 | 20.0 | 16.5 | 19.0 | 18.5 | 17.5 | 18.0 | 13.0 | 19.5 |
| NON-ESSENTIAL | NON-ESSENTIAL (SKATING) | NON-ESSENTIAL (SKATING) | IRRELEVANT | IRRELEVANT | REGULAR | REGULAR | REGULAR | REGULAR | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| GOALTENDER BUTTERFLY | #/CA average | Rebounds | Speed | Acceleration | Flair | Strength | Pokecheck | Balance | Work Rate | Stickhandling |
| worldwide | 1275/49.3 | 4.7 | 6.5 | 6.5 | 7.6 | 8.7 | 5.7 | 9.5 | 9.0 | 4.3 |
| CA 40-69 | 352/52.5 | 4.7 | 6.8 | 6.7 | 7.3 | 8.8 | 6.6 | 10.3 | 8.6 | 4.4 |
| CA 70-99 | 179/81.7 | 7.8 | 8.4 | 8.3 | 7.9 | 10.4 | 7.7 | 11.1 | 10.4 | 6.7 |
| CA 100-139 | 122/115.1 | 11.5 | 10.8 | 10.7 | 9.3 | 11.9 | 9.0 | 12.3 | 12.6 | 9.1 |
| CA 140-159 | 19/146.2 | 14.5 | 12.4 | 13.0 | 12.6 | 13.7 | 10.8 | 14.6 | 14.7 | 10.9 |
| CA 160-179 | 4/164.5 | 15.8 | 14.0 | 14.5 | 15.3 | 14.0 | 11.5 | 16.3 | 16.0 | 11.0 |
| CA 180-200 | 2/183.0 | 17.5 | 14.5 | 15.0 | 17.0 | 15.0 | 12.5 | 17.5 | 18.0 | 12.5 |
| REGULAR | REGULAR | REGULAR | REGULAR | REGULAR | REGULAR | REGULAR | REGULAR | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| GOALTENDER BUTTERFLY | #/CA average | Passing | Decisions | Bravery | Anticipation | Pass Tendency | Fighting | Stamina | Natural Fitness |
| worldwide | 1275/49.3 | 4.2 | 9.6 | 8.7 | 7.1 | 13.7 | 2.2 | 8.5 | 8.2 |
| CA 40-69 | 352/52.5 | 4.5 | 10.6 | 8.4 | 6.4 | 14.5 | 2.3 | 8.9 | 8.4 |
| CA 70-99 | 179/81.7 | 8.6 | 10.6 | 10.1 | 8.7 | 14.8 | 3.0 | 10.7 | 10.4 |
| CA 100-139 | 122/115.1 | 8.6 | 11.4 | 11.3 | 11.7 | 15 | 3.8 | 12.5 | 12.3 |
| CA 140-159 | 19/146.2 | 9.6 | 13.7 | 12.5 | 15.2 | 15.0 | 5.3 | 15.1 | 14.2 |
| CA 160-179 | 4/164.5 | 10.3 | 14.0 | 13.8 | 16.0 | 15.0 | 5.8 | 16.5 | 17.3 |
| CA 180-200 | 2/183.0 | 11.0 | 15.5 | 13.5 | 18.0 | 15.0 | 6.0 | 19.5 | 17.5 |
| MENTAL | MENTAL | MENTAL | MENTAL | MENTAL | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| GOALTENDER BUTTERFLY | #/CA average | Aggression | Dirtiness | Agitation | Consistency | Determination | Adaptability | Ambition | Pressure | Important Matches |
| worldwide | 1275/49.3 | 8.2 | 8.0 | 7.8 | 10.1 | 12.0 | 11.7 | 12.2 | 11.5 | 9.5 |
| CA 40-69 | 352/52.5 | 8.1 | 8.1 | 7.6 | 9.7 | 11.6 | 11.9 | 12.2 | 11.5 | 9.0 |
| CA 70-99 | 179/81.7 | 7.4 | 7.0 | 6.6 | 10.4 | 12.4 | 11.5 | 11.7 | 11.5 | 9.7 |
| CA 100-139 | 122/115.1 | 6.5 | 5.4 | 5.6 | 12.3 | 12.6 | 12.3 | 12.5 | 11.8 | 10.8 |
| CA 140-159 | 19/146.2 | 6.2 | 6.1 | 5.3 | 14.1 | 15.3 | 13.5 | 13.9 | 14.6 | 13.5 |
| CA 160-179 | 4/164.5 | 9.3 | 7.8 | 5.3 | 14.8 | 16.8 | 13.5 | 16.0 | 16.5 | 15.8 |
| CA 180-200 | 2/183.0 | 6.5 | 5.0 | 6.0 | 16.0 | 18.0 | 16.5 | 18.0 | 16.5 | 16.5 |
| MENTAL | MENTAL | MENTAL | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| GOALTENDER BUTTERFLY | #/CA average | Professionalism | Sportsmanship | Temperament |
| worldwide | 1275/49.3 | 11.4 | 13.0 | 14.7 |
| CA 70-99 | 179/81.7 | 11.6 | 12.4 | 14.0 |
| CA 100-139 | 122/115.1 | 12.2 | 13.3 | 14.8 |
| CA 140-159 | 19/146.2 | 12.8 | 13.1 | 13.5 |
| CA 160-179 | 4/164.5 | 13.8 | 10.8 | 14.0 |
| CA 180-200 | 2/183.0 | 15.5 | 15.5 | 16.5 |
ATTRIBUTES THAT ALL GOALTENDERS GET A "1" RATING IN - Hitting, Checking, Wristshot, Movement, Slapshot, Vision, Deking, Deflections, FaceOffs and Versatility (makes no sense to me, but 74 of 944 Goalies have a rating above 1)
There quite a bit that jumped out at me when compiling this data
- database issue...some goaltenders have higher than 1 for Offensive Role and lower than 20 for Defensive Role (I took a quick look and noticed goalies from Latvia/Norway having Off/Def Role values that skaters would have)
- database issue....way to many butterfly goalies have WAY to high a rating for Flair (an Irrelevant Attribute for the butterfly Player Role); IMO without doubt 99% of butterfly goaltenders should have an extremely low single digit Flair (they all play essentially the exact same way, they block the puck, there's nothing different/exciting about how they stop the puck.....goaltenders like Palmateer and Fuhr and Ranford had Flair.....I don't think I've seen a goalie with Flair since Hasek retired)
- I'm a little surprised to see Balance as "regular" as IMO it's at least Essential
- At first glance I though Rebounds (rebound control) as Non-Essential seemed odd, but then I thought of all the 2016 NHL Playoff hockey I've been watching lately (31 games in recent weeks) and I recall goaltenders regularly giving rebounds.....I think nowadays the goalies not expected to control/direct rebounds as much (guys like Don Edwards were masters at putting rebounds wherever he wanted them), but rather just make the first save; I think it's because modern goalies use their pads to make ice level saves way more than the old days (when the stick was used more, because the pads didn't automatically seal at a 90 degree angle and create a "pad wall" like they do now)
- I think the Natural Fitness of goaltenders in the 100-159 CA range is on average to low (these are Elite League/AHL/NHL goalies who are averaging 12-14 for Natural Fitness)
- I notice Temperament is very high...does a high value mean they don't keep their temper very well? if so, then Temperament seems much to high on average
- I see Decisions as a high value, and have seen it with defensemen too....is this just the EHM07 Guide being wrong like it was with Passing? (both are said to be "only used on offense" in the old Guide)
nino33 wrote:G_MIXED
KEY ESSENTIAL ESSENTIAL ESSENTIAL ESSENTIAL ESSENTIAL GOALTENDER MIXED #/CA average Off Role Def Role Reflexes Positioning Glove Blocker Agility One-on-Ones Rebounds worldwide 3437/40.4 1.4 19.6 6.6 8.5 5.7 5.6 8.0 5.3 5.5 CA 40-69 1260/50.6 1.1 19.9 7.3 9.4 6.5 6.3 8.6 6.1 6.2 CA 70-99 293/80.0 1.0 20.0 9.9 10.7 9.3 8.8 10.6 8.7 8.5 CA 100-139 100/115.2 1.0 20.0 13.0 12.6 12.6 12.3 13.0 11.1 12.1 CA 140-159 7/147.7 1.0 20.0 15.7 14.1 15.3 15.6 14.9 12.1 15.1 CA 160-179 6/167.3 1.0 20.0 17.3 16.7 17.2 16.0 17.3 13.3 17.0 CA 180-200 0/- - - - - - - - - -
NON-ESSENTIAL NON-ESSENTIAL (SKATING) NON-ESSENTIAL (SKATING) IRRELEVANT IRRELEVANT REGULAR REGULAR REGULAR REGULAR GOALTENDER MIXED #/CA average Recovery Speed Acceleration Flair Strength Pokecheck Balance Work Rate Stickhandling worldwide 3437/40.4 4.0 5.8 5.7 6.6 8.4 6.1 9.4 7.8 3.8 CA 40-69 1260/50.6 4.7 6.5 6.4 6.6 9.0 6.9 9.9 8.1 4.3 CA 70-99 293/80.0 7.7 8.7 8.3 7.4 10.1 8.3 11.3 10.2 6.7 CA 100-139 100/115.2 11.7 10.8 10.5 8.9 11.3 9.9 12.4 12.2 9.6 CA 140-159 7/147.7 13.7 12.6 12.0 11.9 15.7 11.7 14.7 14.3 11.9 CA 160-179 6/167.3 16.5 14.2 14.3 13.2 14.7 12.3 16.2 16.7 10.8 CA 180-200 0/- - - - - - - - - -
REGULAR REGULAR REGULAR REGULAR REGULAR REGULAR REGULAR REGULAR GOALTENDER MIXED #/CA average Passing Decisions Bravery Anticipation Pass Tendency Fighting Stamina Natural Fitness worldwide 3437/40.4 3.8 9.6 7.7 5.3 14.4 2.3 8.7 7.2 CA 40-69 1260/50.6 4.5 10.1 8.0 5.7 14.5 2.5 9.6 8.0 CA 70-99 293/80.0 6.6 10.8 9.4 7.9 14.8 2.9 10.8 10.1 CA 100-139 100/115.2 9.1 11.2 11.0 10.7 15.0 3.6 12.1 12.1 CA 140-159 7/147.7 10.6 13.6 13.0 14.0 15.0 5.0 14.3 14.3 CA 160-179 6/167.3 9.5 15.7 15.5 17.0 15.0 4.5 16.7 17.0 CA 180-200 0/- - - - - - - - -
MENTAL MENTAL MENTAL MENTAL MENTAL GOALTENDER MIXED #/CA average Aggression Dirtiness Agitation Consistency Determination Adaptability Ambition Pressure Important Matches worldwide 3437/40.4 8.0 7.7 7.6 9.1 11.7 11.4 12.0 11.4 8.4 CA 40-69 1260/50.6 8.0 7.6 7.7 9.3 11.4 11.6 12.2 11.1 8.5 CA 70-99 293/80.0 7.8 6.9 7.6 10.1 11.7 11.8 12.1 11.7 9.7 CA 100-139 100/115.2 6.8 5.8 6.0 12.1 12.7 11.9 12.3 12.1 10.6 CA 140-159 7/147.7 7.0 5.9 6.3 13.9 15.6 14.7 14.6 13.7 13.6 CA 160-179 6/167.3 7.2 4.8 3.8 16.2 16.7 15.2 15.8 15.3 15.2 CA 180-200 0/- - - - - - - - - -
[/tr] MENTAL MENTAL MENTAL [/tr] GOALTENDER MIXED #/CA average Professionalism Sportsmanship Temperament [/tr] worldwide 3437/40.4 11.4 12.4 14.5 [/tr] CA 40-69 1260/50.6 11.4 12.4 14.4 [/tr] CA 70-99 293/80.0 11.4 12 14.4 [/tr] CA 100-139 100/115.2 11.7 12.5 14.4 [/tr] CA 140-159 7/147.7 12.9 14.1 12.6 [/tr] CA 160-179 6/167.3 14.7 15.5 16.3 [/tr] CA 180-200 0/- - - -
ATTRIBUTES THAT ALL GOALTENDERS GET A "1" RATING IN - Hitting, Checking, Wristshot, Movement, Slapshot, Vision, Deking, Deflections, FaceOffs and Versatility (makes no sense to me, 74 of 944 Goalies have a rating above 1),
Noticed a few things...
- Like the butterfly goaltender, I notice the Natural Fitness and Temperament issues
- I think maybe Rebounds and Recovery should be switched (or at least Recovery added to Essential).....I think a mixed goaltender is "more" than a butterfly goaltender, and can do more than just play positional/blocking style (for example, Quick when he was at the top of his game); because of this "extra style" they may be more likely to give a rebound sometimes?
- IMO it makes sense that some will have a higher Flair
I'm going to stop with this goaltender data task now...
In my test there are
- 1275 butterfly goaltenders
- 3437 mixed goaltenders
- 40 unorthodox goalies
- 256 standup goalies
IMO there hasn't been a standup goalie since the 19990s, so I don't think a modern database should produce any.....I'm surprised there aren't maybe a bit more butterfly goaltenders and a few less mixed goaltenders.....the low number of unorthodox goalies makes total sense to me (unorthodox to me is Billy Smith, Hasek or Tim Thomas.....can't think of a modern goalie I'd put in the category with those examples)
