"Recommends... Be Given a More Important Role"

[Primis]

So this one has vexed me for a while, and it's now come up again in my current game. And I searched but didn't find anything specifically addressing it

When you get a Coach's Report back on a player, they sometimes recommend said player "be given a more important role". At its heart, we all have a good idea what that means. If they're in the AHL playing good minutes already, probably time to get them into the NHL. If they're playing NHL 3rd pairing/ bottom six minutes, promote their pairing/line. Possibly add them to the PP or PK if it applies to their strengths, also. It generally just works thatw ay.

However, what does it REALLY mean, game mechanic-wise?

I have a 20 year old goalie with NHL Starter Caliber attributes already in the ones that really matter for goalie -- and in the "doesn't take shifts off" range for Consistency, like arguably better than my actual NHL starter. However, when I scout him (with really good scouts, repeatedly) he keeps projecting as an NHL Backup roughly, or perhaps a #3 even. On my Team report (with a good Ass. GM with a 20 in Judging Player Ability and Potential both), he shows as already #2 on the Goalie depth, and the #11 Prospect on the chart. I played him 2 games at the start of the season and sent him down to the AHL, because those 2 games were rough. In the AHL, he struggled and lost all 5 of his first starts splitting time with another young goalie. Then something clicked and he went on a tear winning 5 straight.

My NHL starter got hurt and, on a hunch after calling my young goalie up, instead of using him as backup I played him, just to see how he fared. And he's faring SO much better, winning 5 straight there and posting other good (not great, but good) numbers. The team plays better in front of him.

If I do coach reports on him, all 4 coaches I selected -- including my goalie coach obviously -- tell me he needs to be given a more important role. He just started 5 NHL games in a row. I'm... not sure how much more important a role I can place on him at the moment, to be honest. To compound this, all four coaches previously told me he'd never make the team and to probably not even bother trying to develop him just out of camp.

So I guess... what is the GAME'S idea of "more important role"? I'm not changing his status from a Hot Prospect, that seems silly. He's started 5 in a row, and to be honest if he keeps winning and playing well I'm not gonna' sit him even when the starter comes back to healthy. What is it exactly that the game is wanting me to do/trying to get me to do? Or is this just one of those things with the game where you nod and ignore it and keep doing whatever you want, because "EHM gonna' EHM"? Because to be honest, goalie development in this game can be brutal, so if I can groom this guy instead of waiting another 2 or 3 years for Next Guy to be ready (my Next Guy goalie is my #1 prospect, and projects in Scouting as a really good NHL starter, but a year or two off yet)...

[Saapas]

I think the game means to pump him up from Hot Prospect

[Primis]

I think the game means to pump him up from Hot Prospect

I've never approached it that way I guess. If the player is on the farm and you get that message, it usually has "We should call him up" attached to it. So I guess I've alway assumed it's more about where he's playing hs ice-time rather than his Oragnizational Status.

It's why I ask though, I'm curious what anyone else thinks/says. I know in the old original freeware EHM, those organizational roles were important and you'd get News messages saying they feel they're better than say a Regular or Core player. It actually got annoying constantly having to adjust guys that way because they were always complaining. So it's entirely possible.

[Shindigs]

First of all goalie scouting is nonsense. Don't look at the projected role at all. It's literally useless. Only look at player comparisons, that's where it's at. Because I play with no trades for players allowed I'm pretty well versed in developing goalies (cause it's not like I have a choice).

What they are probably getting at is that he's getting close to his PA (which a goalie will be at around 20-22 depending on some variables, and that leaving him in the AHL won't really achieve anything at this point. He needs to get his play time in the NHL to get to full ability now.

Unlike skaters who essentially score 20 less points in their first season (for forwards at least) and then are essentially at full power from year 2 onwards; Goalies are a bit different, as you'd imagine. Their first season in the NHL any goalie will struggle, expect around .880SV% even though his attributes look like he should be way better than that. It's just the nature of the beast with rookie goalies. In his 2nd year even with 0 growth in attributes you should expect him to hit around .890 or so, which still will seem really low for his attributes more than likely. But just keep on grinding, because in the 3rd year he should start playing to his attributes and become a .900+ goalies assuming he's got what it takes to get there. Because in EHM it takes a freaking lot to get to .900 in the NHL.

If you never give him those seasons under his belt he won't ever get past where he is a this point is essentially the gist of what that report is telling you.

I personally never remember to change players from hot prospect to anything else until they get a new contract, besides I've had some pretty big backlash when I've put hot prospect who are in key roles up to higher roles so I'm wary to start doing it.

[Primis]

First of all goalie scouting is nonsense. Don't look at the projected role at all. It's literally useless. Only look at player comparisons, that's where it's at. Because I play with no trades for players allowed I'm pretty well versed in developing goalies (cause it's not like I have a choice).

Interesting.

So while for skaters the player comparison + projected role is often important (Yeah it's great he compares to Crosby, but they're only projecting him as a 3rd liners which is.. not the same)... you're saying you should focus solely on player comparison for goalies? So the comparisons of my young goalie to Andrei Vasileskey, who has run off two straight Vezinas and is probably the best goalie in the universe right now in my game, are far more important than my scouts thinking he'll only be a backup.

If you never give him those seasons under his belt he won't ever get past where he is a this point is essentially the gist of what that report is telling you.

So in other words, it's not necessarily an "action required" thing. It's a label the game applies to him because it sees him as being at a certain point in development and the context of his actual current role is unnecessary? It's a flag of sorts more than a cause for action then.

This is what I was looking for I guess. Thanks. Given your great Scouting research and what you've broken down, I was hoping you'd have done similar things to the coahc reports like this.

[philou21]

Well glad to know that about goalies now too. I'm always wondering how to read their scouts reports and by deduction I was going with the player comparaison. I'll keep doing that.

[uknownick]

Remember scouts or coaches can be wrong in judging players even when they have both 20s in the skills. Make decision based on your observation. Comparing goalies on their important attributes are very useful. In addition, determination, agility and pressure are also very important attributes outside of reflexes, positioning, rebound control and etc. Pressure is extremely important in Playoffs. I have two goalies - Binnington (166CA), and Mrazak (156CA) - Mrazak plays very average in the regular season but is a rock in the playoffs; Binnington wins Vezinas but is horrible in playoffs. I never understood why until I checked their hidden attributes - Mrazak is way better under Pressure.

[Shindigs]

First of all goalie scouting is nonsense. Don't look at the projected role at all. It's literally useless. Only look at player comparisons, that's where it's at. Because I play with no trades for players allowed I'm pretty well versed in developing goalies (cause it's not like I have a choice).

Interesting.

So while for skaters the player comparison + projected role is often important (Yeah it's great he compares to Crosby, but they're only projecting him as a 3rd liners which is.. not the same)... you're saying you should focus solely on player comparison for goalies? So the comparisons of my young goalie to Andrei Vasileskey, who has run off two straight Vezinas and is probably the best goalie in the universe right now in my game, are far more important than my scouts thinking he'll only be a backup.

If you never give him those seasons under his belt he won't ever get past where he is a this point is essentially the gist of what that report is telling you.

So in other words, it's not necessarily an "action required" thing. It's a label the game applies to him because it sees him as being at a certain point in development and the context of his actual current role is unnecessary? It's a flag of sorts more than a cause for action then.

This is what I was looking for I guess. Thanks. Given your great Scouting research and what you've broken down, I was hoping you'd have done similar things to the coahc reports like this.

Generally speaking when your goalie gets compared to a goalie like that it should mean he's got in the range of 180-185 PA. But it kinda depends on Vasilevskiys PA in your save. I haven't got enough goalie scouting in the new db for the benchmarks I had in the old ones. The rule of thumb used to be if a goalie in the draft was being compared to more talented Fleury/Varlamov that meant he was actually a ~185 PA goalie. Once you drafted him (as in the second you did) once you checked his scout reports they would read "like Price/Holtby", and then you knew 100% certain it was a 180+ PA goalie and you were set in the net for the next 18 years. But now I don't know the exact comparisons to look for anymore. But if he's being compared to Vasilevskiy he should be a franchise goalie for sure.

I personally never use the coach reports as I consider them pointless, same with physio reports. Especially since in the physio reports Riz has mislabeled several reponses causing them to be misleading as all hell (goalies with 17 strength getting the "his lack of strength has a negative impact on his game" type strings). So I don't even ask for them, I trust more in my own ability to judge my players than the AI's ability to do so (as the AI is pretty darn bad at it, based on AI teams performance).

[Primis]

I personally never use the coach reports as I consider them pointless, same with physio reports. Especially since in the physio reports Riz has mislabeled several reponses causing them to be misleading as all hell (goalies with 17 strength getting the "his lack of strength has a negative impact on his game" type strings). So I don't even ask for them, I trust more in my own ability to judge my players than the AI's ability to do so (as the AI is pretty darn bad at it, based on AI teams performance).

I use them basically solely for the evaluation of if they're ready for the NHL or not (or if they are already young and playing in the NHL in the bottom six, seeing if they need more NHL icetime).

I'm trying to think if I've EVER used Physio reports.