Position change

[TurboJ]

Failed to learn how the system works so I'm asking related to the conversation above.

So the consensus is that putting players into 'wrong' positions doesn't noticeably affect their performance. But it can be hard to know for certain as there are near infinite number of variables at play if you were ever to test this. I guess we should see a difference if we put 100 players with very low position skill on their wrong spot and sim all of them a year; do the same again with high position skill and everything else the same.

But at what level does this matter?

Natural is 20, or did I understand wrong? Below 15 won't easily learn a new position, and 15 is the lowest level of skill the game shows?
But the shown levels are 4. unconvincing 3. competent 2. accomplished, and 1. natural. Does this mean unconvincing is 15? If that's 15 out of 20 then it's even theoretically only a 25% difference, hardly so unconvincing!

But sometimes there's a center who only shows up as a center and nothing else even unconvincing. I assume since databases are manually made the skill could actually be zero and that would be felt, right?

Anyway, have I understood right - that if a position is shown, it's at least 15 and that means at least theoretically you could get an 'accomplished' out of it? How much is accomplished BTW? 18? And I would guess a Natural/Natural does not happen at all, the best you can get is 19/20, right?

Thanks guys. (hoping at least a little reply, pretty please)

[TurboJ]

Anyone with answers to any of these questions please?

I have since tested things out and I have been able to re-train 'unconvincing' into 'accomplished'. A further question is, as I have seen that 'accomplished' means 18 at positional skill, does it go up to 19 if I keep on re-training?

Also, one thing nobody has commented so far is if it's possible to make more dramatic positional changes, like from a D into a FWD. I would guess typically no if the player has 1 positional FWD skill. Is this transition ever possible unless the player already shows some skill at the new position?`I would assume getting from 1 to 15 is too much to ask even if there is high versatility etc.

Thanks.

[nino33]

Natural is 20, or did I understand wrong? Below 15 won't easily learn a new position, and 15 is the lowest level of skill the game shows?
But the shown levels are 4. unconvincing 3. competent 2. accomplished, and 1. natural. Does this mean unconvincing is 15? If that's 15 out of 20 then it's even theoretically only a 25% difference, hardly so unconvincing!

I have since tested things out and I have been able to re-train 'unconvincing' into 'accomplished'. A further question is, as I have seen that 'accomplished' means 18 at positional skill, does it go up to 19 if I keep on re-training?

Each player will have one position rated as 20 (so 20 as "Natural" makes sense), and all others will be rated 1-19
I'm not aware of anyone who has done the testing/posted the results needed to answer your specific questions

But sometimes there's a center who only shows up as a center and nothing else even unconvincing. I assume since databases are manually made the skill could actually be zero and that would be felt, right?

I believe there's a bug causing a significant number of players to get a 1 for the other positions they'd typically be able to play at least somewhat (for example, LD will have a 20 LD and a 1 RD, a C will have 20 for C and 1 for both LW and RW). Riz (the developer) is aware, and hopefully it'll be one of the fixes when the next update is released

Also, one thing nobody has commented so far is if it's possible to make more dramatic positional changes, like from a D into a FWD.

The Player Role would not change, and I think that would cause issues & so the Key/Essential/Non-Essential/Normal Attributes wouldn't change (each Player Role has a different combination). As well, their Offensive Role and Defensive Role ratings wouldn't change

I would assume getting from 1 to 15 is too much to ask even if there is high versatility etc.

I agree

[TurboJ]

Each player will have one position rated as 20 (so 20 as "Natural" makes sense), and all others will be rated 1-19
I'm not aware of anyone who has done the testing/posted the results needed to answer your specific questions

Thanks for the replies.

I have so far went through some of the positional skill numbers and I can report that at least numbers between 12 and 15 are labeled as 'competent'. So definitely numbers lower than 15 are visible in game. Also I can report that number 9 shows up as 'unconvincing'. And I have been able to retrain 9 into 18 before.

As it has been said maybe these numbers don't massively effect gameplay, but for sure there is a differenrence between 1 and 20 performance wise?

And since versatility affects the players' ability to play an unfamiliar spot, does that still have an effect when talking about secondary spots? Say you're able to retrain the unconvincing into accomplished anyway; will the low-ish versatility still hamper the player in that new position?

Thanks.

[nino33]

Thanks for the replies.

You're welcome

I have so far went through some of the positional skill numbers and I can report that at least numbers between 12 and 15 are labeled as 'competent'. SP definitely numbers lower than 15 are visible in game. Also I can report that number 9 shows up as 'unconvincing'. And I have been able to retrain 9 into 18 before.

Thanks for sharing, this is great to know
Being able to train a 9 to an 18 seems significant (I wounder what the player's Versatility rating was)

As it has been said maybe these numbers don't massively effect gameplay, but for sure there is a differenrence between 1 and 20 performance wise?

I think so.

And since versatility affects the players' ability to play an unfamiliar spot, does that still have an effect when talking about secondary spots? Say you're able to retrain the unconvincing into accomplished anyway; will the low-ish versatility still hamper the player in that new position?

AFAIK Versatility affects the learning of the new position (how much of an increase is possible, how long the learning of the new position takes), and the unconvincing to accomplished player wouldn't be hampered by their Versatility value once they are accomplished

I wonder if a player ever loses any of the position learning...the position rated as 20 will never change. In your example of learning a secondary position and going from 9 to 18, I wonder if that 18 never again lowers (that's what I would think, but maybe I'm wrong)

I've never really done any Position focused testing/investigation, nor have I talked with Riz about these things, so I can't say "for sure" how things work

[TurboJ]

Thanks for sharing, this is great to know
Being able to train a 9 to an 18 seems significant (I wounder what the player's Versatility rating was)

Thanks for the thanks!

I have now successfully done this on two different players; from 9 to 18 and it took an average of 20 games played on top lines. (Top NHL team and avg ice time of around 19 min per game). FWIW my relevant coaches are super talented. I'm now trying to see if I can achieve two 'accomplished' positions for the same players. First player has versatility of 58 and the other one has 49.

In both cases 'unconvincing' was rated as 9 for all forward positions and 'accomplished' was always 18. From what I can see it looked as if the skill jumped directly from 9 to 18 once the training had been successful; I did not see it being 'competent' at any time in between.

I wonder if a player ever loses any of the position learning...

I have had players lose rating enough for it to drop from 'accomplished' to 'competent' but I haven't checked those values on the editor. And I don't know if this is a bug as it almost always occurred once I had trained another, new position for them - in these cases the older secondary position then got reduced.

[TurboJ]

Interestingly my test revealed another case of positional skill dropping.

So my forward (188 CA/PA) was originally a pure center, so positional skills were 9/20/9 LW/C/RW. This is the 58 versatility guy.
I first retrained him to LW and he then had 18/20/9.

Now I retrained him to RW and surprisingly his skills are now 12/20/18. The same has happened before with other players. I wonder if it's a thing with versatility/adaptability that there is a limit to how many 'well handled' positions a player can have. Either that or this is a bug.

I distinctly remember this same thing took place on my earlier game where I would retrain a center to play wing. Once he reached 'accomplished' on a second wing position, the first dropped to 'competent'. And when I then retrained him BACK to the other wing, this second wing position dropped to 'competent.

So out of curiosity I checked the versatility of three players on my roster whom I have successfully trained for all three forward positions and they have remained.

The three players who were able to retain 'accomphished' (18 or 20) on three positions at the same time:
-First case: The player has 83 versatility.
-Second case: the player has 82 versatility.
-Third case: the player has 88 versatility.

Looks like we might have found something

.....

edit. I can also report that '16' already counts as accomplished where '15' is still competent.

[nino33]

Good to know Thanks very much for sharing

[TurboJ]

np