Player Developmental Caps By Age?

Post by **Primis** » Tue May 21, 2019 12:42 pm

I've seen this mentioned in the past on here, and also on the EHM subreddit a couple of times, and I guess never really thought much about it.

But now that I really do think about it... do we have a definitive list for what the max CA a player can achieve under each age cap is? While I've seen it referenced in passing, I don't think I've ever seen a list or chart of what the age caps actually are.

Post by **nino33** » Tue May 21, 2019 1:55 pm

I've never heard of "development caps by age" before; do you have a link to where they're talked about?

Post by **Primis** » Tue May 21, 2019 5:09 pm

nino33 wrote: Tue May 21, 2019 1:55 pm I've never heard of "development caps by age" before; do you have a link to where they're talked about?

It's mentioned numerous times in the Practice Thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2345&p=235411&hili ... ap#p235411

I believe user Shindigs was the first time I personally remember seeing it come up, and I made a mental note of it but never really got back into it to investigate or ask more.

It's also mentioned on the EHM subreddit most recently here I think (but I've seen it referenced numerous times there as well). Note: That comment there references and links back to the TBL Practice Thread here that I linked above:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EHM/comments/b ... k/el9un6r/

So at this point the idea's apparently been out there and spread around some. Since it's out there, I was hoping someone had more specifics on it. I've tried reading through numerous threads for the specific details on it, but either I've missed it (entirely possible) or it's just not been stated.

Post by **nino33** » Tue May 21, 2019 5:36 pm

Shindigs loved hyperbole and to post authoritatively, but he had a faulty understanding of the game and made to many false statements for me

I've never heard of "age development caps" before. Attribute development is not something that connects solely to CA; based on past testing there are some Attributes that connect more to CA development and some less (and some Attributes can still develop even after maximum CA is reached i.e. CA/PA match)

Post by **nino33** » Tue May 21, 2019 11:43 pm

Thinking about this a bit more...my understanding is in addition to player age and practice routine, quality of competition plays a part in development too (a player can be to good for a league or not good enough and that affects development too). And for sure Player Role and Key/Essential/Non-Essential/Irrelevant Attributes would play a significant part too (and do all Player Roles develop the same? they don't all have the same number of Key/Essential/Non-Essential/Irrelevant Attributes so it's not just one type of development). For sure the actual CA level and also the PA level would play a part too (lower CA/PA players aren't going to see a large yearly CA growth that a high PA player often will). And the value of the non-physical Attributes would play a part too. And I suspect there might be some built in randomness too! HaHa

All these things and their interplay would make it hard to say exactly what was causing an actual "cap by age" if one was perceived

It's a computer game so for sure there's limitations, and for most Attributes development seems geared for ages fourteen to early/mid twenties (so age for sure plays a part; players don't keep developing indefinitely) & I think there's a general limitation on CA and Attribute development within a shorter time period (i.e. one can't take a low CA/200 PA player and make him a really high CA/200 PA player overnight or even in a single year...in fact, I kinda recall testing from years ago showing that starting a player at to low a CA will make it impossible for said player to reach a 200 PA) - but I'm not aware of any specific "cap" on development that's just based on age

Post by **Primis** » Wed May 22, 2019 12:53 pm

nino33 wrote: Tue May 21, 2019 11:43 pm It's a computer game so for sure there's limitations, and for most Attributes development seems geared for ages fourteen to early/mid twenties (so age for sure plays a part; players don't keep developing indefinitely) & I think there's a general limitation on CA and Attribute development within a shorter time period (i.e. one can't take a low CA/200 PA player and make him a really high CA/200 PA player overnight or even in a single year...in fact, I kinda recall testing from years ago showing that starting a player at to low a CA will make it impossible for said player to reach a 200 PA) - but I'm not aware of any specific "cap" on development that's just based on age

That was always one of the things about the freeware EHM: you could draft say an 18 year-old goalie, immediately sign him, play him one season in the NHL, and after one season much of his "development" would be done, regardless of how well he performed. After a 2nd season, he would basically be in his prime by 20 until he started Vopatizing sometime in his 30's. I think NHL EHM 2004 took it a bit too far the other way, but 2005 started striking a better balance.

In my current EHM 1 save I have a goalie tandem 21 and 20 years old. The 20 year old has decent Technical attributes and plays well in-game (his GAA is sub 2.00 and his Save is around .910, winning most every game), better right now than the 21 year old who has much better Technical attributes (and is pretty stinking good himself). But he never seems to improve any attributes either this season, and barely any last season. This is probably what makes people think of am age cap. Something seems to be holding him back right now, but I'm not sure what exactly. His CON, DET, and PA all check out fine.

However, the now-21 year old goalie didn't have that problem at 20. He did a lot of developing at that same age last season. So whatever is holding the 20 year old back, it didn't apply to the 21 year old, and doesn't seem to be a hard cap by age.

TurboJ · Post by **TurboJ** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:05 pm

I've definitely seen many 'hikes' and 'flats' on the attribute development as time goes by and even when all outside variables stay the same (team, ice time, training etc.) Based on just gut feeling of following closely hundreds of prospects and young players, it does seem like there are some kind of age-related ceilings. But they don't need to be any age caps per se, maybe it's simply the amount of growth that can happen in a given time period. Typically I watch most closely the very top prospects and I always have the best coaches that I can get.

So... My theory is that with a very talented individual and great coahing, you would possibly reach each 'step' of growth pretty quickly, and then you'd have a period of time when there isn't visible growth again until enough time passes. If there wasn't anything like this kind of limitation in place, then you could have the super quick development cycles of the older game. But maybe it's just growth stages, say, a certain max percentage of player's PA you can grow per year, or something.

Something that supports this theory is that often I see many attributes take their growth spurt together, so rather than seeing every month increasing one single attribute at a time, you see a heap of attributes grow as a bunch in a time of maybe 1-3 months and then have a flat period again.

I'm pretty sure I don't understand the workings of this game enough, but I'm still noticing patterns which indicate some sort of 'limited growth stage' mechanics...

Anyone know more? I'm pretty sure many do.

Post by **nino33** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:58 pm

Physical growth (height/weight) connects to age.
I suspect skating Attribute growth connects to age, and mental Attributes are more likely to develop at a later age. Some growth is more "visible" as the amount of possible growth is greater (mental Attributes typically don't change much).

The Player Roles and their Key/Essential/Non-Essential/Irrelevant Attributes are going to play a significant factor too https://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/v ... 10&t=16777 With CA development and player age, I would expect Key/Essential Attribute development to take precedence, and I would think trying to develop Non-Essential/Irrelevant Attributes probably isn't going to see a lot of growth

I've done a lot of EHM testing (and posting the results) over the years. If you're interested you can look for the threads I've started in the Data Editing Forum https://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/v ... .php?f=110

TurboJ · Post by **TurboJ** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:18 pm

Thank you. Will try to read as much of that as possible.