National Hockey League (NHL)

Muldzy · Post by **Muldzy** » Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:23 pm

Yeah my rosters are old I just wanted to make sure that they didn't get missed!

TurboJ · Post by **TurboJ** » Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:53 pm

Two small detail issues with the latest database (the latest as of writing this post). I'm using the variant with added prospects.

1. 2019-2020 season. Some young NHLers are considered rookies even though they have played many seasons of NHL. Rookie of the month just went to Travis Konecny. Info panel shows 'one season accrued' even with multiple seasons on the stat sheet.

2. Some 2019 picks don't have NHL rights. The info shows who picked them in the 2019 draft, but NHL rights aren't there. For example, ten different teams were able to make an offer to Kirby Dach in spring 2020 and there was another top 20 pick too who didn't have NHL rights (they got signed too as they were seen as free agents). Too bad I can't confirm if the rights-holding teams had released these players for some reason or if the rights had been missing all along. Either could be the case since these players were playing in the minors during the season.

That said, I'm very happy to return to EHM once again and see that these roster teams have joined forces - and I do feel the new player pool feels more natural to play with. There is now a better separation between bottom six players and star players attribute-wise, and it's also nice to see the 'added prospects' as an official inclusion.

Thanks guys!

StormCloudsGathering · Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:32 am

THIS IS FOR THE MODIFIED 12.3 DB VERSION TO BE USED IN NTHLv2, however some members of the crew that put this together are in that league, so safe to assume whatever malpractice caused all that Adam Oates effects normal rosters too.

I don't know what kind of rating system you're using for prospects but it makes 0 sense. Let's look at the ratings for 2019 top 20.

Jack Hughes -9
Kakko -9
Dach -9
Byram -9

Ok, looks good so far...

Turcotte -14
Moritz -9
Cozens -14
Broberg -14
Zegras -14
Podkolzin -13
Soderstrom -9
Boldy -13
Knight -10
York -14
Caufield -14
Newhook -13
Krebs -13
Harley -9
Lassi -9
Heinola -9

What kind of rating system is this? Was it made by someone who forgot to look at the draft, who forgot real NHL scouts saw these guys and said pick them? Why in GODS NAME does the 20oa pick have a -generally- higher potentially than the 5oa pick? Why is Knight destined to become the next great goaltender for... reasons? Why is Podkolzin... Adam Oates? Look, your opinions are your opinions, and I am thankful you guys still make rosters, but this system of rating prospects is completely stupid.

I understand these are potential ranges, not potential outright, but when a guy like Podkolzin is functionally relegated from the NHL with his PA range, Im still questioning What the Dickens is going on

Other nitpicks:
Mikael Backlund, a consistent 45 pt two-way center for the Flames IRL, has been downgraded to an AHL center because... you guys said so, I guess?
Dillon Dube, an actually good prospect IRL, is -6 here. Sure, you guys can't have predicted he'd be doing as good as he is IRL, but to relegate his potential range to... 4th liner to nothing? why?
You guys must have messed up Zegras' CA or something, while he looks fine in the editor his atts are universally downgraded ingame because the game is like, 'whao, CA too high, better make him Adam Oates'.... same thing happened/happens to Jamie Benn
Shesterkins name is incorrect, ingame it's "Shestyorkin", IRL he wears Shesterkin
Kubalik has 132 pa... and I dont believe the excuse that you're setting it based on last year since Makar is a god.
Why does Laine have a better wrister than Ovi?
Why does Brayden Point, a 92pt 23yo, have a set PA of 156? (basically he will literally never grow.)
Tony DeAngelo is still Anthony DeAngelo, for some reason

I could give more nitpicks but the entire process here seems a bit messed up. How hard is it to do a little bit of research? Yeah, yeah, I could join the researchers... I did try, if I remember correctly, so idk

TurboJ · Post by **TurboJ** » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:50 am

Brayden Point does seem a bit odd to me; the rest of the bunch feel balanced to me after playing this database for 9 seasons. The PA doesn't entirely correlate with performance and many of the touted prospects actually do quite well in game.

But as for Point, he'd not get more than about 6.8 avg rating for his entire career, and even when I signed him onto my dynasty team he could barely score 50 points on my second line so I would say he's not functioning as he should.

StormCloudsGathering · Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:59 am

TurboJ wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:50 am the rest of the bunch feel balanced to me after playing this database for 9 seasons. The PA doesn't entirely correlate with performance and many of the touted prospects actually do quite well in game.

I know PA isn't a 100% thing, but it's still a big deal. Everyone in top 10 should pretty much be on an even playing field. Additionally, you may have just got lucky in your save. It can vary save to save as i'm sur eyou know.

also, just to make sure we're looking at the same player... https://i.imgur.com/oOXCM0G.png this is what I see for Backlund. For anyone wondering about my comment about him. IRL he has 44 pts in 69 games... perfectly consistent, and this guy is touted as a two way center so obviously he wont be great offensively ingame, but he shouldn't be... that.

TurboJ · Post by **TurboJ** » Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:39 am

OK, I agree on Backlund too

TurboJ · Post by **TurboJ** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:36 am

Some early first round picks from 2019 are still being dropped by their rights' owner; I don't know if this is a bug or if teams are really willingly releasing rights of someone they just drafted in the first round a few months later. These same players always get signed right away too (by other NHL teams) so it's not that they're especially bad players. Maybe something worth taking a look at?

....

That said, I'm not sure if I'm just imagining it, but I'm getting the feeling that overall player balance in the NHL is better now than it was in earlier years' rosters. After playing the latest database for several hours now and having done some extensive scouting, this is the first time I don't get the feeling that every NHLer is overly good. Again, I don't know if I'm just imagining it, but it does seem there are more mediocre players around now and that's a good thing. Also now I feel like the superstar players actually do stand out which was not always the case.

At any rate my humble opinion is that there should be very clear differences between players within any league, even in the NHL. So having this gap exist in current database versions is great.

It can still be argued whether some players are slightly overrated or underrated but all in all I really like the new database. I believe in most cases some players being 'too good' or 'too bad' is just a case of delay in updating the database, which is just fine. Also, when we look at some players IRL who suddenly have a huge breakout season in their late 20s - the case may just be that they've been playing on Crosby's wing. Not every player with good stats are supremely talented IRL. And the opposite is also true, especially in case of players who play a support role, such as a purely offensive playmaker. Unless there's enough scoring talent there and team has bad defense, your superstar playmaker just might end up with 40 points IRL.

Final comment for now, it used to be the case before that I felt too many of early first round prospects became star players, leading to guys like Patrick Kane sometimes retiring at 190 CA. IMHO a good approach is to make more of the top prospects highly variable in their potential and I guess one way of doing it is randomized hidden attributes too. Just my 2 cents but what do I know.

Thanks for the excellent work on the latest database!

TurboJ · Post by **TurboJ** » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:07 pm

TBL Rosters v.12.3

2019 first round draftees Peyton Krebs, Brayden Tracey and Philip Tomasino seem to always be free agents. I've played through the first season with database about five times now and these guys are always on the free agent market. The Draft history shows up correctly.

What I can't confirm is whether they start as free agents or whether the teams who drafted them just release their rights. But there is some sort of a pattern here because these exact players are always UFA. On my current save it's December and none of these have NHL rights and all can be freely offered an ELC by any NHL team.

I hope this feedback is useful.

Post by **xECK29x** » Thu May 14, 2020 5:09 pm

Hey everyone, haven't checked in around here in a while so will try to catch up and implement whatever i can here.

Post by **xECK29x** » Thu May 14, 2020 5:10 pm

TurboJ wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:36 am Some early first round picks from 2019 are still being dropped by their rights' owner; I don't know if this is a bug or if teams are really willingly releasing rights of someone they just drafted in the first round a few months later. These same players always get signed right away too (by other NHL teams) so it's not that they're especially bad players. Maybe something worth taking a look at?

This is an AI logic issue and is fixed to an extent in 1.5. If you have any save games you can provide where this happened so they can be debugged that would be helpful.

Post by **xECK29x** » Thu May 14, 2020 5:11 pm

TurboJ wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:36 am That said, I'm not sure if I'm just imagining it, but I'm getting the feeling that overall player balance in the NHL is better now than it was in earlier years' rosters. After playing the latest database for several hours now and having done some extensive scouting, this is the first time I don't get the feeling that every NHLer is overly good. Again, I don't know if I'm just imagining it, but it does seem there are more mediocre players around now and that's a good thing. Also now I feel like the superstar players actually do stand out which was not always the case.

At any rate my humble opinion is that there should be very clear differences between players within any league, even in the NHL. So having this gap exist in current database versions is great.

It can still be argued whether some players are slightly overrated or underrated but all in all I really like the new database. I believe in most cases some players being 'too good' or 'too bad' is just a case of delay in updating the database, which is just fine. Also, when we look at some players IRL who suddenly have a huge breakout season in their late 20s - the case may just be that they've been playing on Crosby's wing. Not every player with good stats are supremely talented IRL. And the opposite is also true, especially in case of players who play a support role, such as a purely offensive playmaker. Unless there's enough scoring talent there and team has bad defense, your superstar playmaker just might end up with 40 points IRL.

Final comment for now, it used to be the case before that I felt too many of early first round prospects became star players, leading to guys like Patrick Kane sometimes retiring at 190 CA. IMHO a good approach is to make more of the top prospects highly variable in their potential and I guess one way of doing it is randomized hidden attributes too. Just my 2 cents but what do I know.

Thanks for the excellent work on the latest database!

Thanks so much for this!