An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by ijekster » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:32 am

In games like FHM 4 there is one feature that I find amazing and that's the ability to make players or have players naturally grow to over the normal limit. Once you hit that mark then they start tearing up the league consistently like a Gretzky or a Prime Crosby. In EHM 1 the highest player points score has been like 120 and that was a fluke.

When I build a team with Byfield, Boeser, and Seguin I want to see consistent 100 point seasons out of them.

Who knows, maybe in 2024 there's a player that's going to hit 140 points as a defenseman in real life. Let me edit players to be generational talents and not just superstars.

If anyone knows how to do this or has an editor that can do this I would love you for ever and I would double my 2495 hours on EHM. Thanks a ton :)

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Re: An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by archibalduk » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:40 am

As far as I know, this isn't physically possible. In EHM 2007 any number above 20 would be treated as 20. I haven't seen anything in EHM 1 to suggest otherwise.

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Re: An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by PeakyBlinder » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:00 pm

Yeah I've thought about this too, I wonder if there's a way to keep everything at "20" when I mess with the editor.

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Re: An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by jdlparsons » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:27 pm

I've wanted something similar to this actually, I think I've figured out a way to do so but its pretty crude and its taking me forever to get everything worked out. Also learning excel as I go which isn't making things any easier. I know this is an old thread, I'm just hoping its of use to anyone else that's wanted something similar. So, here goes.

The skill gap between the very best players and everyone else isn't wide enough for me, I want to take the current ratings, lower them all, and adjust it so that the higher skill players get hit with less of a decrease. So a player that was say 190 CA/PA would go down to 187, but a player that was initially 180 goes down to 170. A player that is 170 is now something like 155, etc. A 200 player would be unaffected completely, but very very very few players should ever come close to that, and if any do I think it should be pretty obvious how much better they actually are than the rest of the world.

I eventually brute forced my way into a decent method, still tweaking it though.
Spoiler: Click to reveal
Few questions though if anyone could help.

When brand new players are generated in the DB, how is their PA assigned? Are they given the exact value a retired player had, is it the -9 or -8 that was put in to the database for that player, or is it some sort of average for the whole DB?

I started with 5 players over 180 PA in my sim, do I need to wait for one of them to retire for another 180+ player to generate, or is it a little more flexible?

If I have a player of lets say 180 CA, and I assign to him a -10 PA. If he rolls a 170 PA off of that, does his CA drop, or does the PA come up?

If I reduce everyones CA and PA, will their attributes self adjust down or do I need to edit things?

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Re: An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by PeakyBlinder » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:00 am

Yeah, I'd ask Archie about that. He's super duper smart about that type of Adam Oates.

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Re: An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by archibalduk » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:21 am

I think a newgen's PA is based on the retiring player's CA when he retires. However, EHM 1 introduced changes to newgens/regens so there might be a bit of randomness/variance introduced. But I don't really know.

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Re: An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by jdlparsons » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:14 am

I think a newgen's PA is based on the retiring player's CA when he retires. However, EHM 1 introduced changes to newgens/regens so there might be a bit of randomness/variance introduced. But I don't really know.
Yeah, that seems most likely. There's definitely some sort of variance, I haven't seen any newgens with copied PA or CA yet, and I'm up to 2029. Ovechkin and Crosby just retired though, their CA's were so high comparatively it should make it a lot easier to find a regen of them

Some screenshots from the sim if anyone wants to see, definitely still needs adjustments though.
https://imgur.com/a/tErS7EA

Does EHM have some kind of permanent injury system or something? For some reason Crosby just stopped being Crosby, 124 points in 20/21 to 57 in 22/23, and his physicals dropped down into the 18-22 range from 95+. Seems a bit young and drastic for it to be age related.

On the other hand Ovechkin didn't really decline at all, at 43 y/o he scored 43 goals and hit 106 points, then for some reason decided to retire. Kinda wanted him to go till he was 50, see if he could take Gretzky's point record. He did shatter the goal record though, by over 250 goals. Quite a few Gretzky records have been broken actually, its nice that they're plausibly within reach. Lots of cool storylines and such to follow.

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by scottababc » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:18 pm

I mean, technically you could try to mod the game to do so (I say so not knowing if even adding mods like this to the game is capable). Or literally break the games coding to allow higher values i suppose.

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by TurboJ » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:41 pm

I've been playing with the idea of trying to make the next GOAT candidate player for a while. I assume the only way to properly implement this is to use the EHM Editor on a database file before starting a new game. But since I'd want to create a new Gretzky/Lemieux character, that would require some heavy duty attributes.

Overall I feel that with the current databases, there seems to be a surprisingly small difference between 'typical' star players and generational talents. I mean based on IRL results and how the professionals typically think of top players, there should be quite a noticeable skill difference between generationals like Crosby and McDavid compared to someone like Bäckström or Bergeron. Something should allow the 'once in a generation' players achieve the 1.5 points per game averages that they do IRL instead of just a little past 1 ppg.

Let alone a Gretzky or a Lemieux who at times averaged more than 2 points per game for long periods of time.

So I'm asking how one should proceed with creating a super player - hearing that the game will maybe re-adjust some values that you set in the editor?
I'd be looking at someone with 20 offensive role, 100 on all relevant offensive hidden atts and 20 on most of their visible offensive atts. Goal is to have a player that can realistically reach for 2500+ career points.

One more thing. On the editor the only thing possibly relating to the longevity of a player is the 'natural fitness' value. So, if I wanted to make it as likely as possible that my player would stay competitive into his mid 40s, is there anything the editor can do to achieve this?

Thanks.

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by nino33 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:24 pm

TurboJ wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:41 pm
So I'm asking how one should proceed with creating a super player - hearing that the game will maybe re-adjust some values that you set in the editor?
I'd be looking at someone with 20 offensive role, 100 on all relevant offensive hidden atts and 20 on most of their visible offensive atts.
You can't edit a player to be the way you're describing. The expected average Attribute (average of the Attributes connected to CA) for a 200 CA player is 16 & the Player Role system (Key/Essential/Non-Essential/Irrelevant Attributes) makes it so you can't make all relevant offensive Attributes 20 or close to 20

EHM is built for the modern game. There are no sliders or coding to represent very significant changes in scoring, goaltending, penalty minutes, fighting, etc



TurboJ wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:41 pm
One more thing. On the editor the only thing possibly relating to the longevity of a player is the 'natural fitness' value. So, if I wanted to make it as likely as possible that my player would stay competitive into his mid 40s, is there anything the editor can do to achieve this?
Beyond Natural Fitness (and maybe Ambition), none that I'm aware of

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by TurboJ » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:39 pm

nino33 wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:24 pm
You can't edit a player to be the way you're describing. The expected average Attribute (average of the Attributes connected to CA) for a 200 CA player is 16 & the Player Role system (Key/Essential/Non-Essential/Irrelevant Attributes) makes it so you can't make all relevant offensive Attributes 20 or close to 20
Thanks for sharing the info. Then how about simply making the player a 200 PA finesse playmaker for instance, but giving him stellar hidden mentals? Can you permanently edit those mentals so as to affect the performance that way?

What I'm trying to do is to create one really standout player, one that would unanimously be considered as the best player in the game. I understand the limitations of the game and it's good there are some; still I wonder what would be the way to get as close as possible to my goal.

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by nino33 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:58 pm

TurboJ wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:39 pm
Thanks for sharing the info. Then how about simply making the player a 200 PA finesse playmaker for instance, but giving him stellar hidden mentals? Can you permanently edit those mentals so as to affect the performance that way?
Of the Mental Attributes Adaptability won't ever change. Ambition, Loyalty, Pressure, Professionalism, Sportsmanship and Temperament might change (but still don’t change much). As I recall Mental Attributes don't have the connection to CA nor are they part of the Key/Essential/Non-Essential/Irrelevant groupings, and so don't have the same potential to get reduced by the game at startup (or the reduction is not significant)

The hidden Attributes Consistency, Dirtiness, Pass Tendency, Injury Proneness, Agitation and Adaptability never change, they always maintain the same value. Consistency is most impactful; you'd want the player to not get injured (lower is better)


TurboJ wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:39 pm
What I'm trying to do is to create one really standout player, one that would unanimously be considered as the best player in the game. I understand the limitations of the game and it's good there are some; still I wonder what would be the way to get as close as possible to my goal.
Are you looking to put this edited player in a current/modern database? Are you just simming and then looking at results? If the answers are yes then IMO you can create another "best player" but I don't think you can create a player in EHM who is unanimously considered better than all other current players year-after-year-after-year

If you were actively playing the game (and not just simming), and you surrounded your player with great teammates/linemates, and the coaching promoted the player's success (icetime, playstyle) - then you might get closer to the results you're looking for

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by TurboJ » Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:22 pm

Thanks for replying!

I am looking at playing through the entire NHL career of one player in one team (my next GM career) using the current TBL/Pivot database.
I'm thinking theoretically it might be possible to get somewhat close to the production Gretzky and Lemieux had - I've seen people post careers with 150+ point seasons on this forum and on Reddit, so if everything was optimized as far as it can go, getting 3000 career points should be possible. Since EHM tends to limit the very top end point production but also extend the period where players produce top results this should be doable.

If I was to get a 24-year NHL career out of someone, it would only take a few 150+ point seasons to do that.

Now some may think this is completely unrealistic and that those Gretzky/Lemieux numbers could never happen today, but fact is we're seeing scoring increase again as we speak, and if we look at the difference between production of top 5 guys at the end of a season, the difference is much less than it was for those two guys and the rest. Since I'm focusing on player careers more than anything on EHM, I would like a shot of managing a record-breaking career.

How does it work in practice though, is there any guide or tutorial anywhere how to correctly add or edit a player into a database without making any risky mistakes?

(I am guessing editing a player on an existing savegame wouldn't really work; although I would welcome any hints on how to if it is indeed possible).

Thanks again.

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by Primis » Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:26 am

To piggyback on what nino has noted, EHM is built to simulate the modern NHL. The modern NHL does not have Gretzkys and Lemieuxs.

You can't create a player that head-and-shoulders above the others. What you'd have to do is somehow do a batch CA and PA decrease across the board (like with the entire DB). Say, reduce every single players' CA and PA by 25 each. Then, when you created your "super player" they'd be more apt to be a tier above everyone else.

The freeware EHM (0-100 attributes) supported "superstars" that could go up to 125. Riz put no such ability (that we know of) into EHM 1 though.

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by nino33 » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:32 pm

TurboJ wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:22 pm
How does it work in practice though, is there any guide or tutorial anywhere how to correctly add or edit a player into a database without making any risky mistakes?
I did a guide a few years ago https://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/v ... ilit=Guide



TurboJ wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:22 pm
(I am guessing editing a player on an existing savegame wouldn't really work; although I would welcome any hints on how to if it is indeed possible).
In my decade of editing/testing (and sometimes playing) EHM, I've never edited a saved game

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by TurboJ » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:41 pm

Thanks Nino! You have been a great help in all respects!

To quickly add a couple of questions to get me started:

-Can you manually set the offensive role and defensive role to any value and they stay that way? Also, on your link 18 is sort of maximum but I think I've seen 19 on some players...

-The list on this thread about the attributes that 'dont ever change' - these could be min-maxed without the game doing any adjusting to them or other atts because of these, right?

-One important thing. Is there any reason I could not add manually a PA for a youth player? For my purpose I would not want to use -10 as that could result in 170 PA which would not really fit my idea. So if I create a 17-y/o player with 145/200 CA/PA manually set, is there any reason this would not work?

....

edit. How do morale and temperament work BTW? High temperament is good I guess, a player who doesn't 'lose it' easily? What about morale?

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by nino33 » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:31 pm

TurboJ wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:41 pm
-Can you manually set the offensive role and defensive role to any value and they stay that way?
Yes....unless Offensive Role and Defensive Role combined are less than 20, in which case the game will set them; another case where they may get overwritten is when a player has no Player Role and the game has to determine Player Role
TurboJ wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:41 pm
Also, on your link 18 is sort of maximum but I think I've seen 19 on some players...
I use 19 and 20 too

Most Attributes are affected by the development engine, and it gets very hard to have separation between the top/best layers...not using the highest ratings to much with Offensive Role and Defensive Role is my attempt at dealing with this.



TurboJ wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:41 pm
-The list on this thread about the attributes that 'dont ever change' - these could be min-maxed without the game doing any adjusting to them or other atts because of these, right?
AFAIK, yes.
But the testing looked at what the Attribute values were ingame at startup as the starting point, I didn't compare what was in the database with what was shown ingame upon startup


TurboJ wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:41 pm
-One important thing. Is there any reason I could not add manually a PA for a youth player? For my purpose I would not want to use -10 as that could result in 170 PA which would not really fit my idea. So if I create a 17-y/o player with 145/200 CA/PA manually set, is there any reason this would not work?
You can manually enter PAs for any player (in my 1974 database Wayne Gretzky starts as a 13 year old with a 200 PA)


TurboJ wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:41 pm
edit. How do morale and temperament work BTW? High temperament is good I guess, a player who doesn't 'lose it' easily? What about morale?
What you said about Temperament is my understanding too.
AFAIK Morale is not editable and doesn't actually do anything ingame.

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by TurboJ » Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:34 am

For some reason the editor won't let me edit contract expiry. Also, is there a way to set a foreign offer clause for an European player through the editor?

Thanks again for all your help!

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by TurboJ » Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:28 am

I can report that the contract ending date was automatically set by the game upon starting the new career. So that's sorted.

Now there's another anomaly. I gave this future genrational player 175 PA at the age of 17 but for some reason his Czech Extraliga team won't play him and instead sent him to the local junior club which doesn't make any sense.

My question is are there some rules within the game or the roster files that limit where a player under 18 years of age can play? IRL he could play in most European elite leagues at 17.
I'm wondering how he could get the relevant playing history made during his draft year. Maybe a KHL club would play him?

Another way to solve the issue is to assign him into a CHL team in which case age is not going to be a problem. But I am wondering if it will screw something up database-wise that he hasn't been drafted there (and I'm not going to edit the draft so I would be only assigning him the relevant player rights.

Any reason that would not work, i.e. I assume the game doesn't really care if the player has been marked as 'drafted' so long as the player rights are there.

Again thanks for all the help.

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by TurboJ » Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:12 pm

I have another question (very thankful for all the help regarding all previous questions!)

What determines the final height and weight of a player? I set these to some quite conservative numbers for a finesse forward one year before his draft. However, in seven months he has gained 16 kg (~35 lbs) in weight... I guess this is somewhat random but at what age does the growth stop and how is it limited in terms of numbers?

Thanks again.

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by nino33 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:05 pm

TurboJ wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:28 am
Now there's another anomaly. I gave this future genrational player 175 PA at the age of 17 but for some reason his Czech Extraliga team won't play him and instead sent him to the local junior club which doesn't make any sense.

My question is are there some rules within the game or the roster files that limit where a player under 18 years of age can play? IRL he could play in most European elite leagues at 17.
I'm wondering how he could get the relevant playing history made during his draft year. Maybe a KHL club would play him?
I don't know (I've never tried to put a 17 year old into the NHL or an Elite League)


TurboJ wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:28 am
Another way to solve the issue is to assign him into a CHL team in which case age is not going to be a problem. But I am wondering if it will screw something up database-wise that he hasn't been drafted there (and I'm not going to edit the draft so I would be only assigning him the relevant player rights.

Any reason that would not work, i.e. I assume the game doesn't really care if the player has been marked as 'drafted' so long as the player rights are there.
I'm not sure; I don't think I've ever tried to give a 17 year old NHL rights before the actual draft

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by nino33 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:17 pm

TurboJ wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:12 pm
What determines the final height and weight of a player? I set these to some quite conservative numbers for a finesse forward one year before his draft. However, in seven months he has gained 16 kg (~35 lbs) in weight... I guess this is somewhat random but at what age does the growth stop and how is it limited in terms of numbers?
Growth occurs age 14-21. The possibility of having growth occur, along with how much growth, is randomized within certain parameters. Height gain is more likely age 14-16, and weight gain more likely age 18-20 (and weight gain connects to height)

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by TurboJ » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:03 pm

Thank you again!

FWIW I didn't give him NHL rights, I was just wondering if giving him WHL rights without an actual draft would mess something up. But apparently not, as I've almost completed the first season and there aren't any evident problems with that.

The funny thing about the AI sending this kid to the U20 affiliate when he was actually contracted to the big club for big money (in Czech Extraliga) is that I see the AI use underage players in KHL at least if they are good enough. And in Europe it's tradition that the very top prospects get a chance to play on the pro teams very early, sometimes even at 16 years old. So trying to have the AI create believable player histories for young players seems a challenge. I don't understand why any team would send to minors someone who is the best player on the continent skill-wise, even if he is just 17. I'm thinking if it might be a roster issue, that maybe the Extraliga team had to make room on the roster and they had no other young players that they could send down. Or maybe the game doesn't generally allow players under 18 to play in pro leagues, even though IRL you can do that in Europe.

If it's simply an age thing then I guess it matters if the player would turn 18 during the season or maybe before the year changes. In my case the player wouldn't turn 18 before his contact expires so maybe this is why he wasn't allowed to play on the pro roster :roll:

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by nino33 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:53 pm

Was the player's Reputation similar to other Elite League players? If not, perhaps that played a part
Maybe the game also looks at previous leagues/stats too, and AI struggles when there's no history? :dunno:

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An Editor to Edit players above 100/20 rating?

Post by TurboJ » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:17 am

nino33 wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:53 pm
Was the player's Reputation similar to other Elite League players? If not, perhaps that played a part
Maybe the game also looks at previous leagues/stats too, and AI struggles when there's no history?
Once again thank you for commenting!

I had set his reputation at 150 and he had one previous, very strong season in the history tab playing for that very same professional club in Extraliga. I don't know if the game actually "looks" at the history when it's a written history only and not something the game has simmed itself.

Anyway, I simmed through 2 months of the season and he played 10 games on the junior team not once being called up to the pro roster. And it's not like they couldn't have found a spot for him as that roster was pretty much all 30+ years old and way past their prime, while this guy had NHL All Star potential already :roll:

Anyway, maybe it's something to do with the history, but at the same time I see many European players play on the elite league teams in their draft year so I don't know what the issue is.

So I redid the simulation with a new version of the database and put him on a WHL team this time. No problems with the missing CHL draft. Now he's safely through the NHL draft and firmly seated on my scoring line with the Canucks. So far so good... (although the game did show again the normalizing effect it likes to do, as even at CHL level he couldn't get to 2 points per game which would have been expected with his ability).

......

One strange thing; after the draft and NHL signing he took a nice skill growth spurt in a few weeks. BUT something strange happened, his determination dropped from 20 to 19 while all other atts are the same or growing. I have seen this happen a couple other times but it's very rare and I'm not sure if it's supposed to happen. Through all of his draft year he stayed at 20. And he's not even close to his PA yet so it shouldn't be related to that IMO. Maybe it'll switch back to 20 eventually, or maybe it's something the game is adjusting when the mentals are "too strong".

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