PK Help

[sjsharkz]

Now I looked at the guide, and used the search function, but couldn't find what im looking for.

I just started a new game with the Sharks, and made a fair few trades, everything seems to be going okay, except my PK.
Now ill give you my PK lines, then ill post a link to my team report, so you have an idea of whose on my team etc.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m108 ... report.jpg

thats my team report
My lines are

Heatley Thornton Cheechoo
Michalek Marleau Bernier
Pandolfo Brown Grier
Hollweg Goc Rissmiller

Hannan Vishnovski
Carle Foote
Allen Smaby (McLaren is injured)

My 3rd line is a checking line for the opponents top line, and it isnt doing too well either :s i dunno why because there all good defensive players.

so maybe if someone can give me some tactics hints, for personal, and team.

My PK lines are
Brown Grier
Hannan Foote

Goc Pandolfo
Allen Smaby (McLaren)

team tactics are very defensive and hard back checking, personal tactics, I have grier and pandolfo with high puck pressure, safe passing for all, often dumping for all, and the good hitters on hard hitting.

Thats about it
Thanks.

[bruins72]

The only one I done really agree with on your PK lines is Goc. He's got terrible positioning and pokecheck ratings. Maybe try Rissmiller or Michalek in his place? Pandolfo should be your top PKer. He's the man, plain and simple. Of course, your second PK defense pairing could use some help but I think you'll be fine there once McLaren returns.

You might want to leave your hitting at normal rather than hard. In a PK situation, I player might get out of position or something when he takes the time to make a hit. I like my PKers to just be focused on breaking up the play and getting the puck out of the zone. I also like to set my gap control individually based on the player's acceleration and speed. Guys with 17+ in those ratings are set to "very tight". 14's, 15's and 16's are set to "tight". Just about everyone else is set to "normal". I don't have anyone on my team that is slower than 10's. Anyhow, I do this with all lines in my game, not just my PK.

[sjsharkz]

Hey thanks a million, ill try that asap, as my pk% is at 79% and getting worse, McLaren is back now so that should help, whatabout bell instead of goc? as bell is on my 4th line as a LW, and should i have pandolfo grier, or pandolfo brown on my top pk line? Also Smaby was taking way too many penaltys, so was glad to send him back to worcester, and get mclaren back, although he takes some dumb penalties aswell.
Should i try perhaps at the trade deadline try trade bell or mclaren? Bell is good and i always seem to get him playing well, but my top 2 lw's heatley and michalek, are better than him, and pandolfo is my checking lw, so hes stuck on the 4th line and on a point on the 2nd pp. and his cap is 2m so suggestions?

I tried getting commodore for mclaren, for my checking line and pk, but couldnt pry him away, same with van ryn.

Thanks

[bruins72]

No problem. Glad I could offer some advice. I just hope it helps.

I supposed you could use Bell on your PK. He's got decent mental attributes and decent defensive skills. To be honest with you though, I'd see what you can get for him in a trade. He's going to waste riding the 4th line. He's a scorer and he belongs on one of the top two lines. Maybe try to work a trade with the Capitals for Matt Pettinger or Brian Sutherby? Or maybe see if the Sabres will deal Gaustad? For now, I'd probably think of Pandolfo and Brown as your two key PK guys. So I'd want to keep one of them on each of the PK lines. Maybe you could get a defenseman like Kalinin, Tallinder, or Hill? I don't think McLaren is that bad though. Maybe you just need to tweak his tactics so he doesn't get so many stupid penalties?

[sjsharkz]

Alright i traded bell goc and rights to delory for gaustad and tallinder, so im happy about that then i traded mclaren to washington for varlamov, as i didnt need him anymore, then i traded bryan allen and nolan schaefer to colorado for vaananen. then made the changes you suggested, and im playing alot better, but still the pk is struggling, its improved slightly, but not how it should be considering the players i have on the pk
pandolfo grier
hannan foote

gaustad brown
vaananen tallinder

im thinking it could be my goaltending, toskala and budaj, but its hard to get a hold of a top goaltender, so i cant do much there, anymore suggestions?
Thanks

[batdad]

Make sure you have faceoff guys. One one unit you have two centres, on the other you have none. Faceoffs on pk are most important thing. Maybe pair Gaustad-Pandolfo, Brown-Grier.

[bruins72]

Yup! Possession is key! Also make sure your defensemen are set to "join the play". I don't think your goaltending is the problem. You should be in good shape.

What kind of Tactical Systems are you using? I keep breakouts, neutral zone, and offensive zone set to "positional" and all face-offs set to basic. Neutral Zone Def is set to "0-4" and so is Forecheck. My Defensive Zone is "tight box". My 3 man PK is set up the same except Forecheck is "2-2" and Neutral Zone Defensive is "1-3".

[Shadd666]

Maybe try Thornton on the PK... He's solid defensively, has high mental attributes, is strong at faceoff, has the stamina to play both PP and PK, is very fast, and can be a dangerous guy able to score shorties, forcing the opposition to be more conservative in their offensive play... He's also a leader, and so could motivate his teammates to work harder to kill the penalties.

I had him on the PK when i played with the Blues, and it worked pretty well.

About the gap control, i play it the exact opposite of B72! Very relaxed for all PK lines. I want my players to stay in a good position and form a solid tight box that prevent the access to the slot. Then i use guys who are brave enough to block shots from the point. And if they don't, i usually have a solid goalie who makes the save. With this approach, a "normal" puck pressure is the maximum allowed; else you would break the box and ruin your PK philosophy.

However, both approach (very tight or very relaxed gap control) can be good. It depends of which philosophy you have, and what kind of players you have.

Last resort if things don't improve (but give it time first!): practice more on the PK! Get it to 30% instead of 20% during one month, and you'll clearly see the results!...but might create other problems, so beware

[bruins72]

Interesting to see your take on the PK, Shadd. My team plays a very in your face, high pressure, intense style of play. It's all out, all the time. You're approach is a smart, more patient, and calculating style of play. Both style are effective but very different. I might have to try your method sometime. The bravery aspect is no problem. I usually look for my PKers to have at least 13 in bravery.

BTW, I keep both my PP and PK training set to 30% all season long. Do you have better results with using 20% most of the time and then bumping it to 30% once in a while? I always figured that I should really focus on special teams in the NHL because they really do decide games.

I thought of suggesting he use Thornton but I know the way I use the rosters in my game, my top center gets plenty of icetime with regular strength and PP. I always use guys from my 3rd and 4th lines for the PK because otherwise they don't get enough icetime. Once in a while I'll use a guy from the 2nd line. So I always end up finding defensive specialists for my bottom 2 lines. Actually, my third line will usually have one or two guys that are two-way players, plus maybe one one the second like that.

[sjsharkz]

Thanks for this guys, I appreciate it.

Well I decided to keep trying yourstyle of PK bruins...and its gradually on the rise,im still last in the leage for pK but its now a little more respectable at 82.6% I think ill leave it for another 15 games to get a better indication, and if my % hasn't gotten better ill try shadds more layed back pk style.

I also have my training to 30% for both pp and pk, as special teams can be the difference between lifting Lord Stanley, or going home crying.

Also Bernier's skating stats are abysmal, so I recently set up a training schedule just for him, with medium skating, intensive conditioning, intensive off skill, light defensive skill, light tactical training.

Do you think that will help? Because if he wants to stay on my second line he needs to speed up. Maybe in the off season start him earlier with his own schedule??

Thanks.

[Shadd666]

Bruins72: I use PP and PK training at 20% because i have decent to good level on the special teams with this and a very good level at even strength. Going up to 30% helped me in the past, the few times i tried it. Generally, i saw a result about one month after i started doing this. I know that special teams are very important, and so should deserve 30% of the practice schedule, but i'm worried about having only 40% to work on my even strength game. I usually don't take that much penalties, being in the bottom 5 of the league, and so don't have that much time to play with my PK lines. So i need to practice more at even strength. Furthermore, i've seen that i take more penalties when i practice less on even strength. Then i prefer to take less penalties than killing them better. A penalty that you don't take is already killed!

About Thornton, i had the same thoughts...already lot of icetime on ES and PP. But i had only one good center to kill penalties at the time (however, it was John Madden ), and so gave some PK duty to Thornton, and he did a very good job! Later on, i get Dave Scatchard from Phoenix, and he became the 2nd line PK center to let Thornton breath a bit

sjsharkz: I think it will get better with time. Just put the right players under the right system, and it's gonna be okay Give some time to your players to adapt themselves to the new PK system, and things will be right. Also pay attention to the aggression attribute of your players. Your penalty killers will be more usefull on your PK units than in the penalty box!

About training, i (and many others) use schedules with 3 intensive and 3 medium areas. It seems to be the best compromise between devellopement of the players, tireness, and injury risk So if Bernier needs to speed up, put him on an intensive skating regime. Other areas depend to what you want him to improve the most

[CrockerNHL]

Interesting... I'm in use with both Shadd's and B72's tactics for more then 3 yeas in a game, having has just about 90-91% PK success all that time. My first unit is an aggessive one using a high pressure, intense style of play(Sutherby-Ortmeyer,Vaananen-Pitkanen), often forcing turnovers, while my 2nd unit is much more relaxed, staying in a position and forming a tight box. Normally I use there Horton (or J.Carter when he's fresh) and Hagman up front and M.Staal with F.Tyutin locking out the box. Probably using two different approaches prevents your opponents from learning fast your tactics.

[Shadd666]

Yup, must be surprising to have a hard time shooting in anyones legs against one unit, and a few seconds later being demolished by the other unit

On the one hand, it prevents opponents to learn your tactics fast... On the other hand, if your opponent is at his ease with a certain kind of PK, you'll be in high danger half of your PK time (until you notice it and change your tactics, of course )

Interesting approach however to have two nearly opposite strategies on your lines I thought about doing this many times before, but never tried. My main concern was about injuries. If you have one player down and must re-organize your PK lines with a former 2nd PK liner going on the first PK line, how will he adapt to this opposite style of play? and how fast? Those were my main concerns that prevent me from trying.

[CrockerNHL]

On the other hand, if your opponent is at his ease with a certain kind of PK, you'll be in high danger half of your PK time (until you notice it and change your tactics, of course )

It seldom has happened to me. As I've already mentioned, my PK stands to ~90% and I'm quite content with that. However, with certain star PP lines (like:Gagne-Forsberg-Heatley) it seems almost impossible not to suffer a PP goal. BTW, how do I know which PK tactic works best against certain type of PP? During the game you cannot see your opponent's tactics. Any help would be appeciate.

My main concern was about injuries. If you have one player down and must re-organize your PK lines with a former 2nd PK liner going on the first PK line, how will he adapt to this opposite style of play? and how fast? Those were my main concerns that prevent me from trying.

Ok, I have never tried to put 2nd unit players to my 1st one and vise versa, simply because I have enough players of similar (or almost similar) style of play and my farm team is loaded with talented prospects. Let's say if N.Hagman goes down I can put C.Dingman instead or even A.Stewart (speed, strength, anticipation, def.skills) anf if Staal or Tyutin are injured I use K.Lyamin's services and so on. Honestly, I didn't think much about this, since I often win games with 4-2, 5-3 result. However, that's very interesting thought about adapting quickly to the opposite style of play in PK. I'd like to study that aspect of the game.

[Shadd666]

You can't see opponent's tactics but may have a clue about it by watching carefully the game. Maybe set temporary the highlights level to "full game" when it comes to PP/PK situation to have a closer look at your opponent strategy. I never tried to adapt my PK to the opposing PP. I put a very conservative PK system and cross the fingers If it's not enough, i know i have the offensive firepower to compensate The only time i played an ultra-defensive style was under the EHM05 days, where tactics were more simple (and less interesting) to manage.

The injuries were an issue for me because i hadn't got a lot of forwards with good defensive skills. But in terms of offensive firepower, i was overloaded!

[sjsharkz]

Thanks for all the help guys, unfortunately i got knocked out in game 7 of the western conference semis against the eventual cup winner the ducks....my pk is still around 82.8% so hopefully the new season brings some more sucess for my pk, ill try a few new things.

Also after the draft the rangers asked for artem dubinin, and i was being silly and put lundqvist up, and then i added budaj, and they accepted :O , then the blues wanted nick palmieri, and again, i asked for something silly, EJ, then i added a 2nd round pick, and matt smaby and they accepted , prooves teams overpay when wanting someone so bad.

So I got an awesome goaly that i should be set with for years, and an awesome prospect without giving up much at all.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m108 ... report.jpg

my team report, any suggestions, or should i leave it as is?

[bruins72]

Looks like you've got some serious depth on defense. Who is on the team and who is down on the farm? I'm kind of thinking you could probably trade some defense to upgrade your RW. I'm not a big fan of Bernier. He's just not my type of player. Other than that, it looks like you've got a killer team.

As for the trades... I've seen stuff like this myself. It's usually right after the draft and teams are so interested in a player they passed over in the draft that they'll give up way to much for him. I got Ovechkin this way in BlueJackets challenge. The Caps wanted Ryan Wilson badly. I've tried to stay away from doing it now. It almost feels like cheating.

[batdad]

Yeah ... it is amazing the stuff you can get for your prospects after the draft, if you draft well..and do not mark them as untouchable.

But that is a whole other story for that other topic.

Best of luck with the pp/pk