The official 2007-08 NHL Season discussion thread.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:41 pm

Ugggh. Patrice Bergeron just got taken down by a nasty, dirty hit. He's unconscious and taken to the hospital. I just hope the kid isn't paralyzed.

Post by **B. Stinson** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:38 pm

nasty, dirty hit.

I will agree it was nasty, but I'd say it was far from dirty.

Randy Jones has never shown signs or intentions of being a dirty player, and based on the numerous real-time replays, I'm sure Jones was just looking to take Patrice out of the play, and not to send him to the hospital(much unlike Steven Downie's preseason kamikaze decapitation attempt on McAmmond).

Though, regardless of intentions, I'm glad Jones was taken out of the game. Hopefully players will begin to think more about these types of hits so close to the boards.

Post by **B. Stinson** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:45 am

Statement issued by Jones during the game:

"Words really can't express the way that I feel right now. I am very apologetic for the hit and what I did. It was not intentional. It is something that I have never done before and it is not part of my character. I am extremely sorry. I hope he does ok and everything works out for him. I wish him nothing but the best in his recovery."

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:08 am

While I don't think Jones is a dirty player, I do think it was a dirty hit. You just don't do that. I'm sure he wasn't trying to injure Bergeron but that still doesn't make it not a dirty hit.

I'm glad that Jones wasted no time in issuing an apology.

jackknife77 · Post by **jackknife77** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:42 am

to put back good news on this topic.. Habs won again tonight!!!

Post by **batdad** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:06 am

Sorry Stinson.we don't disagree on this stuff often, but we do this time. I know the hit is not something Jones is known for, but he clearly sees Bergeron's back to him. This is not like Rypien on that Oiler D-man, who spins at the last second into a hit from Rypien. (Although...Rypien may have had some time to hold up). It is clear to me Jones sees what is happening, and has time to take some off the hit. He does not. He drives Bergeron with his shoulder and elbow into the boards from behind.

Dirty hit, and the first (and hopefully last) time Jones has been caught at this level of hockey. Randy reacted slowly and although he may have held up a little at the very end...he still drove him into the boards head first. At the speed Randy was going, he could have just pinned Bergeron. He chose to risk the hit from behind. Dirty, and suspendable for some time. From where Jones is coming from he can see Bergeron's number the entire way..he should know better.

All this being said...Bergeron is turning the wrong freaking way. He did not protect himself...turning towards the corner on that angle, is a bit of a death sentence..Should have just kept his shoulders square to the front of the net. But then..maybe he gets run by the other guy.

I have seen people in some spots saying Jones could not see the number all the way in..cause he had to cut in front of the goalie..BS that is...plenty of time with Bergeron in view. From the Hash marks in.

Now...Maybe not Downie/and that goon guy who hit Kesler with his stick suspendable...because of lack of history..but suspendable for sure.

I would say This should be 15 games for now. Depending on how Bergeron recovers. But the NHL has let this type of hit go before...thousands of times.

Gonchar on Breezy-by was ugly too.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:38 pm

Good news on Bergeron. Last night the local news said Bergeron was okay. He regained consciousness and has full movement of all of his limbs. He has a broken nose and a concussion but otherwise he's okay.

flea · Post by **flea** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:37 pm

Saw it yesterday on a stream and I had to turn down the stream because I was worried about Bergie and I couldnt watch hockey anymore at that point....man that was ugly when Bergie was there emotionless on the ice....ugly, ugly...

Well, I hope he will recover well and I also really hope that the Flyers will get penalized strongly after that.

Thats already the third big injury caused by a Flyer and the season isnt even a month old!!! C'mon, when will the league make a statement on that!!!??? What does it take?? Has Crosby or Ovechkin to be the victim of their injuries???

Broad Street Bullies is back?? Hope not!!

mcworrell · Post by **mcworrell** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:01 pm

I don't disagree with the fact that Jones should be suspended. But my hope is that the league will suspend any player who makes this kind of hit, not just the no name players like Jones, and Downie. If the league had these rules in last year how long would they have suspended Pronger during the playoffs last year?

I don't think that the Flyers are a team that are trying to be dirty....I just think they have been a little unlucky. I see no reason to penalize the team for the actions of players. It is not like Stevens is sending his goons out at the end of the 3rd period and trying to hurt people. It has been a couple of players making some bad decisions.

flea · Post by **flea** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:17 pm

mcworrell wrote:I don't think that the Flyers are a team that are trying to be dirty....I just think they have been a little unlucky. I see no reason to penalize the team for the actions of players. It is not like Stevens is sending his goons out at the end of the 3rd period and trying to hurt people. It has been a couple of players making some bad decisions.

Yeah, but its curious that we have already three big injuries caused by players of the same team....thats suspicious I think....

I really think Jones isnt a dirty player, he was unlucky yesterday. He made the wrong decision...I understand that its hard for anybody to make decisions in seconds or less, but yesterday Jones made the wrong one.

Downie and Boulerice is another story...

Anyway, something has to happen. Iam not saying that the league should say the Flyers to be sissies and not to hit, but something has to happen...again, I would wonder what would have happend if one of these three injured players would have been Crosby, Thornton or Sakic (just to name some) and not "only" McAmmond, Kesler or Bergeron...

Post by **batdad** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:55 pm

Even before this hit people have been asking (media) if the Broadstreet Bullies are back. Stevens reaction to the Boulerice hit proves they are not, as he was way way too worried. However, he is coaching his team to hit and hit hard all the time. Nothing wrong with that per se. However, it is an issue that of the bad hits this year three are Flyer players already.

Now, i love the Flyers.always have, always will...but I think you hit the nail on the head mcworrell with the question about what happens when a top tier player makes a mistake like this. This will be the true test of the NHL policy.

Good to hear Bergie is going to be okay.

jackknife77 · Post by **jackknife77** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:18 pm

those kind of hits occurs almost every games and as usual, the people reacts to the consequences.. to for the intention. I hve an example : in the preseason game, Saku Koivu almost got is head smashed by Brooks Orpik elbow while he had his arm lift celebrating his goal.. he dodged at the last second the elbow and Sykora had the hit and result by a broken nose.. no penalties.. no suspension for that unachieved very very dirty play.

Post by **B. Stinson** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:54 pm

I think the best way around this situation is to finally stop advocating hitting.

Fans want the biggest, hardest, and most constant hits, but they don't want players getting hurt. That's always been counter-intuitive in my mind. As long as the NHL allows hitting, and the fans demand it for their " " "entertainment" " ", there will always be players getting sent face-first into the boards at some point in a game. In most cases, there's just no time for avoidance of these hits, or even the thought that it will end so badly(and I still strongly believe Jones' hit fits into these cases). I've seen numerous players get sent face-first into the boards, and bounce right back to their feet without a scratch on them. Telling the players to hit, and hit hard, but avoid hurting anyone... it's a bit much to ask, I think.

Post by **Tasku** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:35 pm

Injuries are an unfortunate part of this sport, as they are of any sport. There'll always be hitting in ice hockey, because ice hockey without hitting is like Formula one without speed; like basketball without donks; like the Space Program without the Moon...

Yes, we the fans demand it for our entertainment, because in the end, ice hockey is exactly that: entertainment.

Post by **batdad** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:42 am

Yep no way there will not be hitting between guys in that league. Too fast, too big, too small an area. It is a skill to do it properly.

Yes--Jones may not have "intended" to hit Bergeron but he did. Orpik may have intended to hit Koivu and missed. I agree that Orpik's move was brutal...and should have been suspended anyway, as there was intent. In The Jones case, intent or not...he hit a guy from behind...that is dangerous, Jones knows it, and everyone knows it...and at that level with their skills...he could have pulled up..at least in this case. Again the Rypien on the Oiler was a bad hit, but the hittee was just as responsible for the damage done to him as the hitter. That is the difference. Bergeron is partly repsonsible as well. McCammond...a little as head was down. Kesler--not at all. So to me the biggest suspension should have been Boulerice. (say 30 games) Downie could have got say...20. And then on the scale ...where you can evaluate the hitter and hittee responsibility...Jones gets say 15... Rypien could have got 4 or 5, but most of the responsibility in that one lay with the maroon defenseman who does not know how to protect himself.

Players are taught frmo the time they are 7-10 in different areas of the world how to HIT someone, and are also taught how to take a hit, and how to protect oneself from being hit and injured...so they all know, and all have to be smart. When they are not...stupid rubbish happens. Including Orpik, who in my mind is a bit of an idiot to begin with.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:28 pm

I think you hit the nail right on the head, batdad. You've pretty much summed up my feelings on the whole thing.

Post by **Danny** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:24 am

As far as suspensions are concerned, well what Boulerice did was almost attempted manslaughter, what a stupid ass, anything less than a suspension for the rest of the season is a joke. Jones' hit was nowhere near as bad, and I do believe he felt sorry about it and was really worried about Bergeron's condition, but at the same time, he now got away with 2 games I've heard, this does not satisfy me, it's not fair, I don't have anything against the player Randy Jones but it is actually kinda rewarding for the Flyers, 2 games ban for a fringe NHLer as opposed to your conference rival for a playoff spot being without his most influential player for a month. It's not sending the right message to let them off the hook like that. Now watch for Thornton and Lucic hunting Gagne or Briere next time, would not surprise me one bit.

I've seen numerous players get sent face-first into the boards, and bounce right back to their feet without a scratch on them. Telling the players to hit, and hit hard, but avoid hurting anyone... it's a bit much to ask, I think.

I see where you're coming from, but asking highly paid professional hockey players to hit as hard as possible but clean at the same time sounds fair to me. Your argumentation would be perfectly fine if all that happened after a clean hit. It did not. The injury didn't occur because Jones ran into him, it occured because he aimed at his head with his elbow/arm and followed through. It certainly wasn't the most brutal hit in NHL history, just like you I've also seen players getting hit worse and getting up right away (and even retaliating right away lol), but nonetheless the facts remain, it was an illegal hit and it caused a severe head injury.

I don't think that the Flyers are a team that are trying to be dirty....I just think they have been a little unlucky. I see no reason to penalize the team for the actions of players. It is not like Stevens is sending his goons out at the end of the 3rd period and trying to hurt people. It has been a couple of players making some bad decisions.

Well it's really hard to prove the opposite isn't it. Seriously, I do not intend to blame the Flyers organization and coaching staff, but one has to question Stevens' authority and management skills if he really speaks out against actions like that and his players are still doing it. Unless he doesn't condemn it. I tell you what, I would hate it if the the NHL took any actions against the Bruins if some of their players got suspensions for similar "hits", but concurrently, if this continues and other teams see the NHL doesn't do anything against it then the other teams will "take care" of Philly's star players themselves, rather sooner than later, and I won't blame them.
It is a lot about respect for the game, or rather the lack thereof.

Post by **B. Stinson** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:38 am

The injury didn't occur because Jones ran into him, it occured because he aimed at his head with his elbow/arm and followed through.

That's not the case at all.

Jones had his left fore-arm ready for an upper-back hit even before Bergeron stopped along the boards. And when he made the hit, it clearly made contact with Bergeron's upper-back/shoulders. The reason for the injury was Bergeron's very low, hunched-over stance at the time of the hit, thus resulting in him going head-first into the dasher. Had Bergeron been in just about any other stance, I guarantee this would have ended as nothing more than a great defensive hit.

And for the Flyers being punished: I say that's nonsense. Jones' hit was nothing more than a good defensive play that ended badly; Downie's hit was a moronic play by a desperate young player looking to impress in the pre-season; and Boulerice's incident was a moronic play, by a known moronic player. In my opinion, the Flyers organisation has no place, or pre-incident, control in either of those three situations.

Post by **batdad** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:30 am

do not intend to blame the Flyers organization and coaching staff, but one has to question Stevens' authority and management skills if he really speaks out against actions like that and his players are still doing it. Unless he doesn't condemn it.

He condemned both Downie and even more strongly the Boulerice one. He actually made Boulerice go with him to the Canucks room to speak with and check on Kesler. Stevens is not telling them to do anything other than play the game hard and pressure pressure pressure. Exactly what a coach should do.

The only control the flyers could have had...was not to have that darn Boulerice in the lineup. he is not a player and does not deserve to be in the NHL ... anywhere. Jones and Downie of course do.. Downie as usual crossed the line, and Jones made a mistake which was compounded by the mistake made by Bergeron.

The unfortunate part of Bergeron is that coaches coach players to do exactly what he did to protect the puck on the boards. This does have to stop as well, or things like Bergeron will continue to happen.

Post by **Shadd666** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:49 am

I haven't seen the hits you're all talking about, so i can't really comment on this part, but i'm horrified by the lack of reaction of the league. As it has been said, there's a ridiculous suspension because it was "only" Bergeron, while we can be sure there should have been a way bigger suspension if the likes of Crosby or Ovechkin have been injured. An injured player remains an injured player, a stupid hit remains a stupid hit, and therefore there should be a real suspension in any cases. Suspensions for dirty/stupid hits should be at least as long as the injury of the player. So if the guy that went down injured misses 15 games due to injury, the stupid hitter should be suspended at least 15 games. This way, some guys would think twice beofre hitting from behind or hammering their elbow in someone's face.

Sure, hockey is a physical game, and it must stay a physical game. But those stupid decisions are making it a dangerous game that should turn to be lead by stupidity. So the league must change its policy regarding suspensions, instead of just suspending guys when an entertaining player is down. Which results as the same conclusion as always: FIRE BETTMAN!!!

Post by **Shadd666** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:43 am

Nothing surprising, but the Flames found an agreement to sign Kiprusoff long term, with a 6 years, 35M$ deal (slightly over 5.8M$ per year).

LINK

Now Calgary has Iginla (5 yrs), Regher (5 yrs) and Kiprusoff (6 yrs) signed long-term

Post by **batdad** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:28 pm

And will still manage to suck

Post by **Shadd666** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:32 pm

Grrr...

Flames will win a Cup before Iggy's retirement

At least i hope so

I haven't discovered hockey the last time the Flames won, back in 1989

FromChaos · Post by **FromChaos** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:59 pm

how much longer until Phanuef's contract is up?

crosby87 · Post by **crosby87** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:26 pm

End of this season I think.