Official thread: The Future of EHM

[batdad]

Okay, so just when we are all saying forget it..licenses, time, etc will not allow this game to come back in any kind of a form....some guy we have all heard of goes to HF Boards in the EHM thread and posts this in response to someone saying "No EHM will never come back"

Hey, it ain't over until I say it is over. The development of the NHL EHM was put on hold indefinately but I've always said that the East shall rise again one day

That does not mean there will be a new version soon but I hope maybe one day in the future when I get more spare time, we will put something together.

The name of the person who made the quote: RIZ!!!


Holy mackeral. Not that I expect it in a week, or even a year. But ... wow


Now no discussion of why EHM production was stopped. This has been beaten to death.


Here is the link to the post from Riz. Oh my lord.

[bruins72]

That is VERY encouraging! I am so happy to hear that! Yes, this calls for a banana dance!

[Tasku]

The Holy One has not forsaken us!!

[Loosie]

Sweet. I truly hope we'll see a new version in the (hopefully not too distant) future.

[Tasku]

I'm starting to think, being that he was prolly posting on his own behalf and not on behalf of Sega or SI, that he may be planning on resurrecting the Freeware version when he has some time.

Perhaps it won't be called "Eastside Hockey Manager" then, with it now being a trademark of Sega, but something else.

Nonetheless, even then, with the experience he's made from working on such games for real, the result may be way better than the earlier Freeware.

Anyway... just guessing here...

[timmy_t]

That would be awesome!

[bruins72]

Not to make light of the amount of work involved in making a game like EHM but I don't see why he couldn't go back to making this game independently and still keep it top notch. He could just do it like OOTP with the fake teams, leagues, and players for release and then let the fan community make databases with the real thing. There are lots of other independent games out there that seem to do quite well. Why can't something like EHM be that way (again)?

Of course, Riz does have a job with SI, so I'm sure free time dictates what he can do. Plus, he'd have to see if his contract allows him to do something like that. He might have to change the name and start the code from scratch if the other stuff is owned by SI and/or Sega. Plus, he'd have to make sure his employers don't consider making a game like this on his own a conflict of interest. All that being said, I really hope he can do it. It's just nice to know that there's still a place in Riz's heart for EHM and it's not just thought of as the past.

[B. Stinson]

I'd hate to play negative-Nancy here, but I'm not buyin' it.

Too much "maybe, maybe, if, if" about the quote, and too much potential for it to all just be PR... kind of like when the coach knows his team is gonna lose, but he still tells them they can win it, in hopes that it'll keep them from completely giving up).

Plus, as long as he's at SI, he'll be busy(and thus, no spare time). Especially with Football Manager(FM is where he's at now, I believe) nearly in tatters, and a chunk of the FM community going mad and doubting SI. Not to mention the new FM Live coming out soon - I'm sure that's a collective push from everyone at SI to make sure it's a successful release.

Though, this isn't to say I don't want a return... if he gets the free time, and decides to bring back the freeware, I'm behind him 110%

[B. Stinson]

Though, on a lighter note...

If he does find the time to bring back the freeware, I'd like to see him first focus on customisation like OOTP has.

I think doing that will dramatically solidify the game's re-playability - allowing it to survive any "EHM Great Depression" like we're experiencing now. Extensive customisation will make it nearly impossible for the game to become out-of-date, even if he isn't working on it.

[batdad]

It does not make any sense for him to stir up the troops and not at least think about sometime doing something. I smell no PR..there is no reason for PR. I fully believe is Riz finds the time he will do something with EHM. But the time ? is likely one that wil lnever be answered

[Shadd666]

PR? Not PR? I don't know... All i know for sure is that the various EHM communities are still alive and begging for something new, while still playing a lot of EHM07. There has been no EHM08... There will (probably) not be an EHM09, which should have been out in less than 6 months... And the communities are still alive. So there's some potential for a new hockey management game, being a new EHM or something new made by Riz. And we can be sure Riz really wants to make a new EHM/whatever-the-name-would-be.

So there's a real will to make it and a real community to support it. That's 2 really good points, and a really solid base to see something arise... someday... Hopefully not too far away from now

[bruins72]

Though, this isn't to say I don't want a return... if he gets the free time, and decides to bring back the freeware, I'm behind him 110%

I doubt the game would be freeware even if he does it independently of SI. I'd bet that we'd be more likely to see something like OOTP or TEW where the programmer releases the game themselves and maybe uses something like eLicense.

[Sbufkle]

If were talking freeware, which I saw in one reply here, then were also able to aks that perhaps soem more development tools possibly accessed.

With my modding hat on, and my experience professionally on top of that (its a funny pic no?) The one thing/tool which woudl probalby keep this game alive for potential YEARS without a new release is a tool that opens the main exe.

Mind you it doenst guarantee we chan change a bunch of things... but sure as hell variables such as numbers of cups teams have won, default retired numbers, names of leagues and string texts should be easily changed.

The number of teams per league, I would think might not be changeable without actual coding changed beyond text changes in variables and strings. But you never know.

[grazza]

I think the best approach would be to bring a version of the game every few years and release yearly updates.

Looking at OOTP it has kept going after going independent which is encouraging. Looking at the OOTP forums on the SI site they were very quiet compared to NHL EHM. So certaintly EHM could prosper as an independent game.

Why could Riz not use the current code and just give a royalty to SI for each sale? Would seem a shame to have to start completely from scratch again. I have wondered maybe if some of us eastside fans could get together and create a campaign group to encourage development of another hockey manager game. Of course SI and Riz should get first chance but maybe there are others out there that just need to be made aware there is a demand for such a game. Canada is a huge place for video games I believe nearly every major games company has an offie there. The Canadian government are keen to support independent games developers. I think they offer tax breaks and deals. Canada is the home of hockey so maybe someone based there would be a good option and they would know the hockey market better.

[archibalduk]

It's nice to know he plans on continuing the EHM series in some form or another. This is reassuring, indeed. However, we shouldn't get carried away.

In the best case scenario, SI could continue development. This would ensure a game built on EHM 2007, meaning a heck of a better game than we have at the moment. Having Riz and GK working as a team on it will mean a fair few new features (remember, they are only a two man programming group).

The worst case is that Riz has to do this in his spare time. Clearly he has to earn a living and so any game he developed would be in between working for SI. I imagine it would take a lot of energy and motivation to programme a game when you spend all your working life programming too (programming for a software company means long hours). It might be years before he considered making another hockey manager and years before he gets out a first version.

SEGA/SI own the code to EHM. Thus Riz would have to start from scratch if he went independent. We'd be back to square one with regards to the main game engine, features, and teams & leagues. It took a long time for SI to develop EHM (about four years from starting EHM 2004 til releasing 2007?) so imagine how long this would take with just one man. If he went down the commercial route then he'd have to have a fake DB. I think, if I remember rightly, he might be able to get away using real data if he makes it freeware.

I don't think petitioning any software company will convince them to make a hockey management game. There's just not the demand like there is for other games - EHM's lack of profitability demonstrates this. I know piracy didn't help but sadly this is always going to be a problem for every game and piece of software. It's a shame that some of us aren't accomplished programmers because we, as a community, have a hell of an enthusiasm for another EHM. We could have made an awesome game together!

I don't mean to sound really depressing - I just don't think it's worth getting carried away. If SI announce another EHM then I'll start getting carried away.

I whole-heartedly agree with Stinson: If we do ever see an new EHM, I think the number one priority should be to make it as customisable as possible. This would allow us to keep the game up to date for years to come. Conversely, getting EHM 2007 up to date for the 08/09 season is going to prove to be a tough task. A customisable start date would be great - although this, I imagine, could have licensing issues and also there's the issue of having gaps in player histories if you choose to start the game several seasons in the future.

Slightly OT: Stinson - How come the future of FM is in tatters?

[Tasku]

I don't think petitioning any software company will convince them to make a hockey management game. There's just not the demand like there is for other games - EHM's lack of profitability demonstrates this.

I think there is a niche for the hockey management game, and that niche is in Canada and to some extent in the US market. SI likes to blame it on piracy, sure, it doesn't help, but I think the real problem of EHM never hitting the Jackpot was the fact that nobody knows about it. It was not on the shelves and it was not advertised so that people who don't surf the internet in search for a hockey management game would have any chance of finding it by coincidence.

Anyway. That's what I think. Wether I'm right or wrong is really irrelevant. What matters is will there be another attempt? I doubt SI will ever try again, but Riz may find the time for it someday in the future.

Meanwhile we keep modding the best we can.

[bruins72]

Not to take this off subject but I've just got top interject one point...

The TBL users from the United States aren't really indicative of the average US consumer, even amongst hockey fans. Unfortunately, most people in the US would rather play an arcade style hockey game like the type you find on game consoles. It seems that most people don't have the patience not the attention span to play a game like EHM.

I can't speak for Canada because I don't really know what it's like up there.

[batdad]

SI likes to blame it on piracy, sure, it doesn't help, but I think the real problem of EHM never hitting the Jackpot was the fact that nobody knows about it. It was not on the shelves and it was not advertised so that people who don't surf the internet in search for a hockey management game would have any chance of finding it by coincidence

Lets not go back three, please

there is no reason to discuss what caused the fall of EHM again, IMHO. We beat it to death...

I only posted the exciting news Riz gave us, well HF Boards, so we would have some hope. Some excitement. Something positive.

Rehashing piracy, marketing, and what USA and Canada want in a video game...only causes negative things. Let's try and stick to the positive about the announcement...

Not sure, but why would Riz choose to post that info on HF Boards instead of here, at SI or Eastside UK? Likely the larger audience of HF Boards.

anyway...that last comment not really up for discussion guys..no need to speculate. Just food for thought.

Here is to EHM 2010..under the new name Risto Remes Hockey manager. Surely it wont be Graeme Kelly's manager, or it would be 30 Mighty Duck teams.

[Tasku]

Lets not go back three, please

there is no reason to discuss what caused the fall of EHM again, IMHO. We beat it to death...

I was only pointing out that I feel a hockey management game may just aswell make a profit, and the reason EHM failed was not piracy or because it is a hockey management game.

You may have beaten it to death, I never said my opinion on it.

[bruins72]

Speaking of Riz and TBL... I wonder if he's been by here lately to see how we're still carrying the torch? I know he used to pop in once in a great while. I would think that it would be encouraging for him to see so many people still devoted to the game and finding ways to keep it fresh.

[timmy_t]

... I think there is a niche for the hockey management game, and that niche is in Canada ...

I absolutely agree with your comment.

The question I would ask as an investor/developer, is how to take advantage of that niche and make a great game.

[Loosie]

For what it's worth I found out about EHM during the lockout. The Hockey News did a fantasy draft special shirnking the league down to 6 teams and they used EHM 05 to sim the season.

[batdad]

I know Tasku, I know. Just being mean to you because I had not been in awhile.
And yeah, totally agree that Canada would buy a management game left and right if it was readily known of and available.

B72--I have not seen Riz's handle pop up at all in the last oh year and a half.

[Tasku]

You're losing your touch, Batdad.

Riz may still have visited us as a guest. He might've just lost his password, or not signed in when coming over.

[batdad]

pfft.