Challenge 11: Which league would you like to compete in?

Post by **archibalduk** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:58 pm

We are pleased to announce that we are getting ready for our eleventh Challenge. We do not know the exact start date yet but it will be no later than the latter half of October. The exact start date will be announced as soon as we have it (it depends on a number of factors that we're looking into as we speak).

Due to popular demand, we are giving you the choice as to which league we will use for the Challenge. This could be the first time in the competition's two-and-a-half year history that it involves a team outside of the NHL. Many users feel that it's about time to venture outside of the NHL and look for a fresh new league. You can vote right now on whether you would like the Challenge to involve either an NHL team or a Canadian Junior team (OHL/QMJHL/WHL). This poll will run for the next nine days and closes at the beginning of Monday 15 September.

Once the league has been decided, we will run a poll to vote for which team the Challenge will involve. You can suggest teams here: http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... php?t=3994

We are also looking for suggestions and feedback on the Challenge rules here: http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... &start=150

Post by **getzlaf15** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:25 pm

I voted for the CHL, as it would be new and as the title says, more "challenging".

Post by **archibalduk** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:16 pm

Wow, I thought this was going to be a closer contest. Of course there is still time for things to change. Though I do think the CHL will really give us something completely new to play around with.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:27 pm

It's definitely leaning towards a CHL challenge, which could be interesting.

If there are any people who really want to play another NHL challenge that haven't voted, you'd better get your vote in soon!

Post by **Lidas** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:02 pm

If you decide to go with CHL, Id suggest using TBL1.5 DB as I wont have time to include CHL in my first update.

Post by **archibalduk** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:15 pm

Lidas wrote:If you decide to go with CHL, Id suggest using TBL1.5 DB as I wont have time to include CHL in my first update.

Sure thing, dude. I thought that was going to be the case - your workload on the 08/09 update is MASSIVE. Thanks for the heads up

Hypnotist · Post by **Hypnotist** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:19 am

Regarding Roster DBs:

I have only every used default or unfaked (but not modified) databases. How would an "updated" roster work? Since it isn't possible to advance the start date, how do you account for players who would be too young to play in a given league (i.e. how do players drafted in 07 or 08 play in the 06-07 season, like Zack Hamill or Kyle Beach?)?

This is relevant to the challenge so I can weigh in my opinion on which DB to use for the challenge.

Post by **Lidas** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:18 am

In my database, ALL players have been aged 2 years, so many of the players on CHL rosters are no longer eligible to play in the juniors, and thus the AI makes them free agents. This of course results in very thin CHL rosters, with way too many overaged players on the squads.

The database will work good with NHL though, since all players are aged and rights to all drafted players have been assigned, making future drafts up-to-date. DB hasnt been tested much though, so I'd suggest running TBL1.5 for this challenge, and (if ppl are satisfied with it) my database for the next.

tksolway · Post by **tksolway** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:22 pm

Lidas, when will your updated roster be out?

Loosie · Post by **Loosie** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:46 pm

It'll be nice to see how the CHL season run, to have long term success it's all about the draft and scouting, the longest any player will be with your team is 5 years.

Man management is essential as well, you don't want too many overagers signed to contracts going into the next season, you'd be ahrd pressed to move them.

Although if what Lidas is saying is true you may not want to use his rosters, starting off with too many overagers will really stunt the growth of the team.

Hypnotist · Post by **Hypnotist** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:40 am

You make some very good points, Loosie. A CHL challenge would be all about scouting, drafting and roster management. Also, if you get lucky enough to have a top shelf talent on the roster, there is a fair chance that he will be gone by his 2md or 3rd season with almost no chance of replacing him via free agency and long odds against replacing via trade. IRL, CHL teams go in spurts. They will be naff for a few years while stockpiling talent and then have a couple of years where they do very well with that talent, only to fall off again when the core roster either moves on to the Pros or simply becomes too old to be on the roster. CHL teams are in a constant state of flux, but this should help make the challenge more fun (at least for me). But I would hazard to put forth the suggestion of using the original TBL Unfaked DB rather than an updated roster. This would help avoid continuity and balance problems. From what I have read on these boards, there is not a huge number of people who play in the CHL and would have a big advantage with the default rosters. JMO.

Post by **archibalduk** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:32 am

tksolway wrote:Lidas, when will your updated roster be out?

This is the wrong thread to ask that question. If you perform a forum search you will find the correct thread and that I recently answered your question.

Hypnotist - we will be using TBL v1.5 no doubt about it. As Lidas said, until he updates the CHL, the rosters are going to be stacked with overage players. We need to wait until he has time to implement the CHL updates. As you said, few people are familiar with the CHL and so using TBL v1.5 won't really give anyone an advantage.

You're definitely right about the different approach users are going to have to take. I think it could be very interesting and will add a fresh spin to the Challenges - assuming the CHL wins the vote (poll closes on Monday). Also, we going to simplify the rules to quite an extent - for example, we're most likely going to remove the TBL salary cap and the number of core/home grown players will either be greatly reduced or removed all together.

How regularly do you play in the CHL, Hypnotist? Are you fairly familiar with the league? We're looking for someone who plays quite regularly in the CHL to write a very short guide on how they go about selecting their top two lines and what sort of attributes they look out for. If you look at most CHL players, their attributes are very low compared to NHL players and so we want to give those who normally only play in the NHL a short introduction into the CHL.

Hypnotist · Post by **Hypnotist** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:52 pm

archibalduk wrote:How regularly do you play in the CHL, Hypnotist? Are you fairly familiar with the league? We're looking for someone who plays quite regularly in the CHL to write a very short guide on how they go about selecting their top two lines and what sort of attributes they look out for. If you look at most CHL players, their attributes are very low compared to NHL players and so we want to give those who normally only play in the NHL a short introduction into the CHL.

I truly wish I could help with that, but I have never played and rarely paid a lot of attention to any CHL league. If the CHL is chosen for the next challenge, it will be my first experience running a Major Junior team. Although, I am planning to put together another scouting DB for whichever league (OHL, QMJHL, or WHL) is decided upon.

Post by **batdad** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:03 pm

I think that for the most part this could be the first experience for CHL for alot of players. Top two lines are selected the same way you always do it...who the heck is the best? Just looking at alot of 8's and 9's instaead of 18s and 19s.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:43 pm

batdad wrote:I think that for the most part this could be the first experience for CHL for alot of players. Top two lines are selected the same way you always do it...who the heck is the best? Just looking at alot of 8's and 9's instaead of 18s and 19s.

That's the thing. Are 8's and 9's considered good, bad, average, above average, or below average for CHL players? We have an idea of what the baseline is like in the NHL but we really don't know what cuts the mustard in the CHL. What kind of attributes can we reasonably expect to find when looking for staff for that matter? A guide could include this sort of thing. Also, around when is camp? What about the drafts (both your league's entry draft and the import draft)? How about the playoffs? That seems to work differently. Being from the US, we don't really get exposed to the Memorial Cup. One team is chosen to host it and they're in it no matter what their record is like? Those are the kind of things that would really help to know.

Post by **batdad** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:46 am

those things are what will make the challenge fun. Learn as you go. Maybe new people win, and those of us who usually do struggle ... who knows? Should be the fun of it learning these things.

Asfor playoffs...you have to win your league to get to Mem Cup. One team from each league (winner) plus the host (yes record does not matter, but having a month and a half without playing could if the host team misses the playoffs)

Host tema rotates through the league. I believe the host in the first year is Vancouver, but not 100% on that.

Loosie · Post by **Loosie** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:44 pm

I've had a Sudbury Wolves season going a couple of times. The camps start very near the beginning of Sept. (usualy around the 4th). You are limited to 3 overagers (at least in the OHL), and 2 import players dressed for a game.

There are two drafts the OHL draft (WHL or QMJHL draft) the OHL draft is 15 rounds. These will be players in North American leagues in you geographical area. And then there is the CHL Import draft 2 rounds involving the whole CHL of european players.

The other thing you need to be careful with is the reserve list, you can only carry 50 players, this really becomes a problem if you are running deep into playoffs as the draft adds about 15 players to your roster, the draft is in late May, so it will usually only effect teams that in the finals or heading to the Memorial Cup (which if you not in the finals means you're the host team)

Again I've only played in the OHL regualry (I think I tried both the W and the Q once, but not for very long).

You overage players will range from 19-21 depending on when the birthday lies, I think in the first year of play in EHM the overagers are players born in 86 or 87, and again you have to balance the overagers playing time, I have had a pro team (NHL, AHL, ECHL, CHL) sign one of my top undrafted overage players (once it was my top goalie....was NOT happy with that)

And then of course there's the NHL draft, You have your lines all set coming out of training and then the NHL traing camps start and all your draftees get called up. The current season I'm on saw 7 players get drafted and led to 9 players getting called up to the NHL training camps.

So needless to say it is a challenge, if you don't draft and scout carefully you could be in for a few years of dissapointment.

Hope this helps.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:11 pm

That's some good info, Loosie. Thanks!

Post by **archibalduk** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:23 pm

Thanks for that info, Loosie. I think snippets like that will really help everybody.

Wow, the CHL has won by a resounding 23 votes to 9! The poll should have closed now so no more votes will be taken into consideration. We'll work on the choice of teams now and will run a poll very soon...

Post by **batdad** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:49 pm

On the drafts...in many cases the teams start passing on the draft in real life...because of the 50 man list and they do not want to drop guys they have. Also ... in real life the 20 year olds from the season you are playing in, do not count against the 50 man list for the next year with the new drafts, so there are more spots than in the game.

Because...the game only counts to 50...period. not the way in real life.

Loosie · Post by **Loosie** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:45 pm

Same goes for the import draft, a lot of times teams won't even draft from the import draft because the players won't want to go to North America.

Post by **batdad** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:55 am

Actually, it is not so much that as it is they have 2 Euros they like who are already going to play there the next season. I know that is what happened in Vancouver for a bit.

Challenge 11: Which league would you like to compete in?

Which league would you like Challenge 11 to involve?

Challenge 11: Which league would you like to compete in?