If there are any Leaf fans out there.... can anyone help me to figure out what the heck they are trying to do with their recent trade moves/draft choices? I don't want this to turn into a Leaf bashing thread (not that it would be hard to turn it that way!)
*Don't get me wrong, I like that they drafted a lot of Canadian talent... but they went with a lot of big huge players... in an era of hockey that seems to favour smaller faster skaters. Schenn is a great defenceman, but since when are the leafs really a defensively focused team? I'm a little sad they didn't just grab Filatov with the 7th pick instead of trading up for the 5th pick still.
*Off Season acquisition to date.... Jamal Meyers.... big huge grinder.... born and raised in Scarborough, Ontario (around the corner from me actually, not far from the Draper household either) Strong player... but against the common trend.
*They are going to let Sundin go to Montreal (a move which I support... Sundin is way past his prime IMO) but for what? Grabovsky? There are rumours though, that the leafs could acquire Higgins plus a 2nd round pick for Sundin.... now that would be a pretty decent deal!
*Rumours also have it that the leafs are trying to offload Antropov (supposedly their most marketable player according to a few news sources... I am not sure I agree) McCabe and Tucker...
So what can we put together from this? Are the leafs trying to build a bigger and tougher and slower team to grind their opponents into the floor? Egads.
The Leafs
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Manimal
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I think trading up for Schenn was good. He's a perfect shutdown-guy and ready to step in. Teams needs a rock-steady backbone to build on. And build is what I think the Leafs must do since they're no contenders, or even pretenders for that matter. Stefanovich is an interesting pick as well. He seems to have a lot of offensive potential. I'm not familiar with the other picks. As for drafting big guys, I think it's just a coincidence. They simply chose the best player available.
I like the Mayers trade, as well. As long as you don't expect tons of scoring he'll be a great leader in the team, perhaps even a captain if Sundin goes (don't know what other captain-material you've got)
Sundin,Yes. Maybe it's time to go in a different direction. He is still a very good player but he isn't getting younger and his supporting cast could be better (trying not to bash too much)
Tucker and McCabe I think will be gone. I'm not sure how good it would be to trade Antropov. Heis one of the top players on the team and you'll need some good players. Can't only go with youth.
I'm hoping the Leafs starts a steady climb and not rush too fast. I have always liked the Leafs even though they're not my favourites.
I like the Mayers trade, as well. As long as you don't expect tons of scoring he'll be a great leader in the team, perhaps even a captain if Sundin goes (don't know what other captain-material you've got)
Sundin,Yes. Maybe it's time to go in a different direction. He is still a very good player but he isn't getting younger and his supporting cast could be better (trying not to bash too much)
Tucker and McCabe I think will be gone. I'm not sure how good it would be to trade Antropov. Heis one of the top players on the team and you'll need some good players. Can't only go with youth.
I'm hoping the Leafs starts a steady climb and not rush too fast. I have always liked the Leafs even though they're not my favourites.
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Shadd666
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Schenn seems to be a future monster. Maybe not the fastest skater around, but he has the tools to compensate easily. Stefanovich is the exact kind of guys i don't like at all. Gifted as hell, he should have been drafted in the top-10, even in such a strong draft class... He should have been... but he didn't... because his work ethic and determination are questionnable to say the least. Gifted for sure, but someone you can't count on when it matters. In that way, he reminds me Yashin. And we all know how it ended. But the Leafs used what? A 3rd or 4th round pick to select him? Might worth it. There are very few chances that the guy improves his work ethic, but in case he does, it's the biggest steal of the draft. Don't count too much on that though.
Moving Sundin should have been done at the deadline if he had been a bit less selfish and a bit more clever at that point. My main question here is: what the Habs are doing?
After acquiring the 5.25M$ of a useless Alex Tanguay, they will acquire an old Mats Sundin, and probably not for cheap, both in terms of salary and trade value...
Dealing away Antropov, McCabe and Tucker? Not sure for Antropov, but the other two may be a good option to load some youth and draft picks. What about a tanked season to get a high chance drafting Tavares? Let's be honest, it's a good year to be bad. And with a week free agency market in perspective, i wouldn't be surprised to see weak teams dealing away some talent to be weaker and have a shot at Tavares.
About building (so far) a physical team, that's not necessarily such a bad choice. Sure, things have recently turned to smaller and faster guys. But there will be a time, sooner than later, when those weak guys will be reminded that hockey is a physical game, and if they're not ready to battle in the corners, they can go back home. Being fast is good, but when you're 5"8 - 160 lbs and you cross the path of a guy like Phaneuf, you'd love to convert some mphs in lbs... Taking big hits tires you. The more you're tired, the less you can skate fast. And once you've been slowed down enough, you're ready for that monster hit that will land you to the nearest hospital for a few months... So playing physical is never a bad idea, just a different approach to things, and a logical one when it comes to hockey. Just don't rely too much on it.
By the way, Leafs suck
Moving Sundin should have been done at the deadline if he had been a bit less selfish and a bit more clever at that point. My main question here is: what the Habs are doing?
After acquiring the 5.25M$ of a useless Alex Tanguay, they will acquire an old Mats Sundin, and probably not for cheap, both in terms of salary and trade value...Dealing away Antropov, McCabe and Tucker? Not sure for Antropov, but the other two may be a good option to load some youth and draft picks. What about a tanked season to get a high chance drafting Tavares? Let's be honest, it's a good year to be bad. And with a week free agency market in perspective, i wouldn't be surprised to see weak teams dealing away some talent to be weaker and have a shot at Tavares.
About building (so far) a physical team, that's not necessarily such a bad choice. Sure, things have recently turned to smaller and faster guys. But there will be a time, sooner than later, when those weak guys will be reminded that hockey is a physical game, and if they're not ready to battle in the corners, they can go back home. Being fast is good, but when you're 5"8 - 160 lbs and you cross the path of a guy like Phaneuf, you'd love to convert some mphs in lbs... Taking big hits tires you. The more you're tired, the less you can skate fast. And once you've been slowed down enough, you're ready for that monster hit that will land you to the nearest hospital for a few months... So playing physical is never a bad idea, just a different approach to things, and a logical one when it comes to hockey. Just don't rely too much on it.
By the way, Leafs suck
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laskey 16
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Leaf fan here. We suck though, youre right. In response to the OP Nurgle:
- Pierre McGuire is right, Schenn is a monster. Absolute monster. He won't score points but he'll stop other teams from doing the same. The NHL is getting smaller but that only really applies to speedy skilled players. In the past small and quick players have been the sought after rareity, maybe with this post-lockout shift players like Chara and Schenn (I'm not comparing the two obviously, but still) will be more valuable? Schenn has the potential to be a 1-2 shutdown D-man and I'm glad we got him. We could have taken Filatov, which I wouldn't have minded, but most mock rankings I had seen showed Schenn higher than Filatov. I'm pleased to have Schenn and would have been pleased to have Filatov too. When you pick in the top 5 and draft someone ranked in the top 10 you are always picking a player with great potential. They may bust, though.
- Mayers is apparently a decent player, a checker, but I must admit I don't know much about him. A 3rd round pick seems strange to trade in a rebuild mode (which we seem to be fully in and many think we're 'tanking for Tavares') but the consensus seems to be he's there to just add some accountability and protect the younger players a bit. The Leafs were incredibly soft last year. Still, the jury is out on this one for me, we'll have to see what happens.
- The Sundin thing is more or less out of Fletcher and MLSE's hands. Mats is and always has been very very slow to make up his mind in the offseason. His agent JP Barry is very shrewd and wont rush into anything. Fletcher asked him to waive his NTC in February and that no doubt widdled him off, and I suspect that Fletcher probably has told him that the Leafs are rebulding and aren't going to make the playoffs. Mats will, in my opinion, retire or go to Montreal, NYR or Detroit. I can't see him re-sign in Toronto, as much as he loves Toronto and yadda yadda. I hope we get something for him if he does sign somewhere but it's not the end of the world if we don't. He's great, but old. Some Leaf fans are widdled off and think he 'owes' the Leafs. That's garbage, if anything we owe him. We paid him handsomely over his career, he played well for us and lead well as captain. If he leaves, fair enough. Personally I think we may try and get Higgins for him if Gainey can convince him to sign in MTL. At the trade deadline we apparently asked him to waive his NTC to go to MTL for Higgins, a 1st and a 2nd so there's definitely interest from both teams. But like every year, it's down to Mats Sundin himself. He may want to retire a Leaf, make more money (7 million is the rumoured price for one season) or go for the Cup. Only he knows for sure.
- I've heard absolutely no rumours around Antropov, and I read hfboards, TSN.ca and The Hockey News as well as the Maple Leafs.com forums every day. That said, if we can get a good return why not? He's good but certainly not untouchable, especially in rebuild mode. McCabe is bad but not as bad as everyone and the media says, but I'd certainly like him to be traded. I have a soft spot for Tucker and hope he gets a second chance but he was terrible last year. People have said Tucker will be bought out but I'd have to guess we could trade him for something half-decent.
- We just waived Raycroft and Wellwood today. Raycroft is an awful goaltender in Toronto and good riddance. He needs to play somewhere else. As for Wellwood I am amazed. He's a good player, but incredibly lazy and out of shape. He has said himself that he never works out and tries to avoid fitness work so I'm not against getting rid of him. But by waivers? Surely we could trade a young, second line centre who makes less than a million for something?
Overall, the Leafs are rebuilding. Fletcher is trying to make us younger, but as the OP says is certainly trying to make us tougher too. I don't think we're trying to get a supertough team, just give us some toughness because of how soft we were in 07-08. The majority of our players at current are old, overpaid and past their prime so Fletcher is trying to blow it up. That being said, the Leafs are still making the same old mistakes with misjudging younger players. If, as I expect, Wellwood is claimed and we lose him for nothing then we will be repeating our mistakes with Brad Boyes and Steve Sullivan.](./images/smilies/wallbash.gif "Brick wall")
But all in all, at least MLSE has realised that we need to do something. We suck.
Go Leafs Go!
/Rant over.
- Pierre McGuire is right, Schenn is a monster. Absolute monster. He won't score points but he'll stop other teams from doing the same. The NHL is getting smaller but that only really applies to speedy skilled players. In the past small and quick players have been the sought after rareity, maybe with this post-lockout shift players like Chara and Schenn (I'm not comparing the two obviously, but still) will be more valuable? Schenn has the potential to be a 1-2 shutdown D-man and I'm glad we got him. We could have taken Filatov, which I wouldn't have minded, but most mock rankings I had seen showed Schenn higher than Filatov. I'm pleased to have Schenn and would have been pleased to have Filatov too. When you pick in the top 5 and draft someone ranked in the top 10 you are always picking a player with great potential. They may bust, though.
- Mayers is apparently a decent player, a checker, but I must admit I don't know much about him. A 3rd round pick seems strange to trade in a rebuild mode (which we seem to be fully in and many think we're 'tanking for Tavares') but the consensus seems to be he's there to just add some accountability and protect the younger players a bit. The Leafs were incredibly soft last year. Still, the jury is out on this one for me, we'll have to see what happens.
- The Sundin thing is more or less out of Fletcher and MLSE's hands. Mats is and always has been very very slow to make up his mind in the offseason. His agent JP Barry is very shrewd and wont rush into anything. Fletcher asked him to waive his NTC in February and that no doubt widdled him off, and I suspect that Fletcher probably has told him that the Leafs are rebulding and aren't going to make the playoffs. Mats will, in my opinion, retire or go to Montreal, NYR or Detroit. I can't see him re-sign in Toronto, as much as he loves Toronto and yadda yadda. I hope we get something for him if he does sign somewhere but it's not the end of the world if we don't. He's great, but old. Some Leaf fans are widdled off and think he 'owes' the Leafs. That's garbage, if anything we owe him. We paid him handsomely over his career, he played well for us and lead well as captain. If he leaves, fair enough. Personally I think we may try and get Higgins for him if Gainey can convince him to sign in MTL. At the trade deadline we apparently asked him to waive his NTC to go to MTL for Higgins, a 1st and a 2nd so there's definitely interest from both teams. But like every year, it's down to Mats Sundin himself. He may want to retire a Leaf, make more money (7 million is the rumoured price for one season) or go for the Cup. Only he knows for sure.
- I've heard absolutely no rumours around Antropov, and I read hfboards, TSN.ca and The Hockey News as well as the Maple Leafs.com forums every day. That said, if we can get a good return why not? He's good but certainly not untouchable, especially in rebuild mode. McCabe is bad but not as bad as everyone and the media says, but I'd certainly like him to be traded. I have a soft spot for Tucker and hope he gets a second chance but he was terrible last year. People have said Tucker will be bought out but I'd have to guess we could trade him for something half-decent.
- We just waived Raycroft and Wellwood today. Raycroft is an awful goaltender in Toronto and good riddance. He needs to play somewhere else. As for Wellwood I am amazed. He's a good player, but incredibly lazy and out of shape. He has said himself that he never works out and tries to avoid fitness work so I'm not against getting rid of him. But by waivers? Surely we could trade a young, second line centre who makes less than a million for something?
Overall, the Leafs are rebuilding. Fletcher is trying to make us younger, but as the OP says is certainly trying to make us tougher too. I don't think we're trying to get a supertough team, just give us some toughness because of how soft we were in 07-08. The majority of our players at current are old, overpaid and past their prime so Fletcher is trying to blow it up. That being said, the Leafs are still making the same old mistakes with misjudging younger players. If, as I expect, Wellwood is claimed and we lose him for nothing then we will be repeating our mistakes with Brad Boyes and Steve Sullivan.
But all in all, at least MLSE has realised that we need to do something. We suck.Go Leafs Go!
/Rant over.-
Nurgle
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dave1927p
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1 thing i don't really understand is that the plan is getting Brian Burke to be the next Leaf GM. So why has Fletcher gone out and signed a bunch of europeans? I am asking this because we all know that Burke likes to build the core of his team with North American players.
The leafs lost again to Detroit and all of the wings regular player were out of the lineup....this is going to be a long couple seasons; just like the last ones.
The leafs lost again to Detroit and all of the wings regular player were out of the lineup....this is going to be a long couple seasons; just like the last ones.
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batdad
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really? Sedin, Sedin, Ohlund, Naslund, Arvedsson (1 time signing), Hedberg, Salo, Selanne. He never brought Bertuzzi or Morrison to Van. Jovo was the only one he brought in.
In Anaheim the core was already there...save Nieds and Pronger. The young guys that are the studs now were drafted by his predecessor ... who is now in Ottawa.
So I am really not so sure about Burkey's cores being NAmerican all the time. Burke just likes good hockey players. Unfortunately...he rarely drafts them. Man...come to think of it, he is perfect to continue the Loaf tradition.
In Anaheim the core was already there...save Nieds and Pronger. The young guys that are the studs now were drafted by his predecessor ... who is now in Ottawa.
So I am really not so sure about Burkey's cores being NAmerican all the time. Burke just likes good hockey players. Unfortunately...he rarely drafts them. Man...come to think of it, he is perfect to continue the Loaf tradition.
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dave1927p
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well, Brian Burke resigned as ducks GM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2008/11/12/burke_gm/
But rumor is he is not going straight to toronto. Perhaps he is taking a few months off. Don't know how reliable this guy is because so far mostly all his (trade) rumors hasn't happened.
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/B ... ON/1/17829
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2008/11/12/burke_gm/
But rumor is he is not going straight to toronto. Perhaps he is taking a few months off. Don't know how reliable this guy is because so far mostly all his (trade) rumors hasn't happened.
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/B ... ON/1/17829
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batdad
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