Too Many Points (Goals and Assists) in game?

[Shadd666]

Just a reminder for this discussion:
At the time of the last patch it was anticipated that the goals/game ratio would increase due to the rule changes after the lockout. They did, but since then the goal totals have gone down quite a bit.
The goals/game is usually between 6 and 6.2 in EHM while this season it was 5.4 in the 07-08 NHL season!! Do your math and don't complain...

Thanks for the reminder, it's probably a big part of the explanation

However, i don't think your last sentence was really necessary...

[batdad]

Okay guys. This is rapidly descending down a path I am not sure we want here.

We need to keep this discussion simple. the original poster in this thread asked about why the goals were too high.

The answer is as simple as the fact that he is QUICK simming his game. He knows that now, and I think we are venturing off into

1. A negative territory about the game.
2. An insult swapping contest...which we do not need.

There is now way, no matter how you play the game that the game could actually get EXACTLY the same stats as the NHL did during 2006-07 which is the season this game simulates the best, because the current abilities of the players in the game are easier to assess than the potential. Not saying it is perfect. Cause it never could be. No matter what you do.

Anyway...the topic at hand here is what causes the game to be more offensive than in real life.

The answer to this question is about 2000 fold. Start with the code, start with the fact it would be impossible to get the research completely accurate, start with how players play the game. Start with trades and transactions in the game itself both for the human controlled and GM controlled teams...start with the idea that goalies are not really as good in the game as they could be. Nor are coaches. Nor are some players. Some players are over estimated.

It goes on and on and on. It is an endless list of why the game is not accurate. each person will be able to add something new to the list.

Now...as shadd said I think that there is no need to say anyone is complaining here about the game. There were questions asked and answered.

I will leave this thread open, but silly insults back in forth will not be permitted. Please guys, be the opposite of me and be civil.

Now back to regular batdad. All of you can bite me!!!!

You could never...ever get that.

[pens66]

Thanks for the reminder, it's probably a big part of the explanation

However, i don't think your last sentence was really necessary...

True! I'm sorry.

[Shadd666]

No problem, pens66, we all have our nervous moments going on from time to time. We should just try to keep cool and stay civil before clicking on the "submit" button. [/mini-issue]

[RyanSmythe]

In all my games in EHM there has been at least 60 players with at least a point a game, and 15-20 with 100plus points at the end of the season. Is this happening with all your games too because this is really unrealistic. This is so important in the game and its very off. (Even EA fixed it in theirs with NHL 07 and NHL08) Is there any way to make it realistic because its just makes me not want to play the game even though i love everything else

Nope no way and it will slowly get worst



each and every year the amount of players scoring over a point a game or at a point per game has increased to the point where my top 50 are 82p+ The player above has never been below 131.

[batdad]

Just a guess Ryan..edited database or created player? And how much ice time per game?

Cause this topic has been beat to death. There are ways to keep the scoring down to realistic levels. You just have to play the game realistically. In every single aspect. Starts with the database, then add in tactics, ice time, coaching, and not quick simming the game...but playing it yourself (as coach even) and the stats are much more realistic.

Take a look at most of our challenge stats for Phoenix. Most guys are way down in scoring now. Why? Because of the forced realism. The more we limit ice time, and play with databases that are correct or edited correctly...without creating stars...the more realistic the stats become. Funny how that works.

[RyanSmythe]

This one was a created player but he plays 2nd line with Forward tactics set to "overload"
He plays PP 2, PK1, Even 1. gets about 20mins of ice timer per game.

When i created him i had him -10 or -9(the one that can get up too 200pot) and started him at 130CA.
But my 1st line Center's stats(who is a regen) has 10x better stats. hasn't been a year where he finished under 160p, Since i drafted him (2009) Most years he hits 190-210. and he ain't created.

the database was editted but IDK what was all editted i think it was just the players who's potential was screwed over on the Original Database (guys like Niskanen,Grossman,Fistric,ect) i also think it was edited to make the All offense type players (Crosby,Lecavlier,ect) have there realistic naff defensive play. IDK i would have to asked the guy that sent it to me.

[batdad]

Does not matter...when

you create a player--it messes up AI and makes other areas better, especially one who can be a star.

you edit attributes---you make things off balance if not done correctly.

So...not really surprised you are getting odd stuff. And odd stats.

I have never had anyone get more than 150 pts. And I think that was once. And I have had a team that went 40-0-0 to start a season, so I don't think its that I don't know what I am doing.

Edits, creations, and the way you play screw up your stats. Period. You don't play realistically..you don't get realistic stats.

[vilifyingforce]

Well, in one of the online leagues I play in Iggy consistently break 150 if not 200, nobody else does though...Nobody comes close to Iggy.

[Shadd666]

Yeah, but it's Iggy... Without any real center around him, he put 50 goals and 98 points this season IRL. So give him a real center to feed him and see the results

[haafie]

Stats are normal(ish)

Crosby has seasons below 100 points and seasons over 100 points, same for all the other star players.

By the way, is scoring 4 goals sacred in Sim mode.
Seems like 90% of the games in Sim mode are won by 4-something.
Even my own team has trouble scoring more than 4 even in the year they broke the NHL win record.

[dave1927p]

I quick simmed 1 full NHL season (OHL,QMJHL,WHL selected too) and i changed the attributes, current ability, and potential ability of the top 50 point scorers, then simmed the next season and edited a few more players. Now when i start a new game i am getting alot more accurate numbers.

When i say this i don't mean Kovalchuk is getting around 50 goals and 90 points or crosby is getting his correct numbers. Actually Kovalchuk is getting 60 points. I changed their attributes to get correct team point leaders(G,A) leaders and to get more proper Team Goals For.

Has anyone tryed this? For the first 4 years i am getting very close numbers to real life NHL. Obviously since i did this some other numbers may be off but i recommend some of you try this for a new challenge. (you also have to turn on random player names )

[dave1927p]

"each and every year the amount of players scoring over a point a game or at a point per game has increased to the point where my top 50 are 82p+ The player above has never been below 131 "

that is the same with me.This is not "normalish" . This is very off. The AHL, SWE, RSL, FSL, etc is normalish but the NHL is way off in EHM07.

[dave1927p]

League Leaders for total points in season 2030-2031
the new "dead puck" era
2030-31 Points
================================================================================================

Pos Player Team GP Pts
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1st Duane Horcoff Maple Leafs 82 109
2nd Cody Donovan Stars 82 94
3rd Garrett Fuller Capitals 81 88
4th Kari Immonen Maple Leafs 74 87
5th Stefano Perreault Rangers 82 87
6th Joaquin Meagher Flyers 82 86
7th Julius Mucha Oilers 82 83
8th Stephen Fougere Maple Leafs 81 83
9th Yuri Varlamov Stars 82 80
10th Alexis Dorion Kings 82 79
11th Sean Jubb Capitals 82 77
12th Olivier Petit Rangers 80 77
13th Jeff Corriveau Sharks 76 74
14th Lew Hammett Flyers 78 74
15th Gene Laflamme Stars 82 73
16th Alexei Vasiliev Kings 81 73
17th Jerome Beauchemin Sabres 63 72
18th Greg Vaughan Rangers 82 72
19th Nick Guentzel Lightning 82 72
20th Mac Moore Canadiens 82 71
21st Torsten Danielsson Blue Jackets 82 71
22nd Yan Plante Blues 82 71
23rd Alexandr Stanek Avalanche 79 70
24th Nathan Charron Avalanche 81 70
25th Brennan Gauthier Sabres 82 70
26th Slava Uryadov Coyotes 82 69
27th Garry Power Sharks 82 69
28th Pascal Lacasse Bruins 82 69
29th Ken Bartley Bruins 79 68
30th Bruce Leblanc Lightning 82 68
31st-50th 67-61 points

[bobmcgoo]

Dave - if you're still around,

How exactly did you go about reducing the NHL points totals to your 2031 levels? I've tried everything - making the goalies better, the offense worse, everyone better suited to a defensive than an offensive role, lowering shooting abilities, raising tendency to pass - on every player in the NHL, and tried Full Detail and Quick Sim, and still can't get it to work. I did once have a realistic season when only 2 players hit 100 points but I simmed the season after that and got it back up to 10 players.

It's the team goals for that gets me - the game wants practically every winning team to have scored 4 goals no matter what detail level I have.

Any help would be appreciated .

[Franck]

I'm actually alot more bothered by the lack of point-scoring from AI-controlled d-men than I am by the overproduction from their forwards to be honest.

And the high scoring is probably a result of the user playing offensive tactics more than it is a result of a bugged engine.

[bobmcgoo]

I haven't got a problem with lack of defense scoring, it must be said. Just checked the RL stats for 2007/08 and they look pretty much like the stats I've got 30 games into a season I'm in. In fact, they are spectacularly accurate, whether by design or accident. Top scorer gets 0.9p/g, next few between 0.8 and 0.75. Thirtieth player in RL, Rivet, had 0.47p/g and my thirtieth player, Suter, has 14 from 28. What are yours like?

My team's scoring is slightly high cosidering I'm playing 2 to 3 defensive lines and 1 to 2 neutral lines with the Canucks - not the most striking of offensively talented teams. 3.21 goals a game (which would have been the best of all teams in RL last season), is only good enough for 9th on my game. Detroit are scoring over 3.8 goals a game with Anaheim right behind them; they'd get 310+ goals given the whole season.

Increasing scoring is easy, if you've got a problem with a lack it. Just boost the players' "offensive role" and "current ability" using the editor. It worked wonders for Mike Green, among others, on my game. Strangely, it doesn't seem to work trying to reduce scoring though.

[Franck]

I haven't got a problem with lack of defense scoring, it must be said. Just checked the RL stats for 2007/08 and they look pretty much like the stats I've got 30 games into a season I'm in. In fact, they are spectacularly accurate, whether by design or accident. Top scorer gets 0.9p/g, next few between 0.8 and 0.75. Thirtieth player in RL, Rivet, had 0.47p/g and my thirtieth player, Suter, has 14 from 28. What are yours like?

Never seen the AI have a defender score more than 45, 50 points. If it wasn't for me having defenders pushing for 60, sometimes nearing on 70 points the Norris would go to players that have scored 40-45 points most of the time, something that would not happen in real life in the post lock-out NHL.

[dave1927p]

And the high scoring is probably a result of the user playing offensive tactics more than it is a result of a bugged engine.

This will be my last post regarding this because im pretty sick talking about it. I sim mostly all my games, i don't play with any particular tactics, im not just talking about my team and i have tried many different things. Like i said earlier i tried editing mostly all the players and it fixed the points leaders very accurately (and defence too) but other things were affected such as Major junior league leaders much lower, many NHL goalies save percentage were too high. but i didn't mind it for a change.
- The problem was that SI predicted that there would be more goals/game then there actually is which is one reason.


Do any of you guys know when a player is regenerated, does his "consistancy" attribute stay the same or does it change?

[selne]

Regens' consistency attribute stay the same.
(also flair, injury proneness, size, def/off role, positions, potential)

[bobmcgoo]

Yes, Dave, how did you actually go about getting more realistic points totals? Nothing I've tried has any noticeable effect.

[selne]

Bobmcgoo, in one of my former dynastys, i used the pregame-editor to change ability an potential
of all the forwards with potential between 130 and 200.
I did not change defensemen's attributes.

It took me a while but i had pretty realistic point totals at least with the regens.

I changed potentials of these players relatively to their size but at least -10 for everyone.
Basically i devided all players in three different groups.

1. Smallish players like Zetterberg and Datsyuk with about 180 - 198lbs - i reduced their potential (and ability) by 10.
The maximum potential in this group would be 177.

2. Big players like a Sundin or Thornton with 210 - 220lbs - their potential (and ability) was reduced by 20.
I set the maximum potential in this group to 166.

3. Crosby and Ovechkin get 184 potential.

You could also change the offensive/defensive talent but since these numbers not only
affect techniques but physical and some mental attributes, too, I wouldn't change them.

Keep in mind that most players have already very good physical, technical and mental attributes.
If you make changes in potential and ability it is true that these changes will have an effect on the first total stats
but they will be much more effective with the regens.

[Coyote of the Sea]

didn't know quick sim makes an impact, guess i'll have to check it out.

MY question though on this is does it matter if countries you aren't managing in are quick simmed or not? like if i set North America to Full Detail and the rest of the world to Quick Sim, will the world stats affect NHL and AHL stats, or not really?

[dave1927p]

didn't know where to post this but i have never seen this before:
In one of my players bio it said
"Is finding the presense of fellow Canadian Tommi-Lee Jeffries helpful"
"Wants to end his career in Canada"

Have any of you guys seen this before? I wish it showed up alittle more often.

[binchnunker]

there are about 5 players that get 100 plus points in real life...well not this year but normally. In EHM there are 10-15 plus 20-30 players with 90.

Have any of you played NHL 07 and simmed a season...you would end up with rediculous stats. Now in NHL 09 they fixed it. EHM stats are way off evven more then NHL 07. I don't think it is just my game because it happens with every new game i play.

i've looked for a screenshot of the endseason player points leaders in the NHL but i couldn't find one. Could anyone give me a link? thanks

hehe, In NHL 09 I drafted a guy with "Franchise" next to his name (Maxim Kuznetsov was his name) and he ended up with 126point rookie season taking home all the trophies including art ross, Hart, Lester B, Maurice Richard. didn't take conn smythe though.
next season he had 139 points