The Bettman-Avery thread..All the stupid in hockey goes here

Post by **batdad** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:31 pm

There is no such thing as a healthy Forsberg.

Franck · Post by **Franck** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:37 pm

batdad wrote:There is no such thing as a healthy Forsberg.

True.
Only reason I posted that was because I thought he had given up on hockey and retired already. Was supprised to see that he hasn't.

Franck · Post by **Franck** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:34 pm

It is now official that Sean Avery will not be returning to the Stars.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:29 pm

I just read this article...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/9181 ... SO2&ATT=MA

When will Bettman and the NHL finally accept that hockey just doesn't do well enough in some places to justify an NHL franchise? It's like he's afraid of admitting that his expansion strategy was wrong. Just get over it, Bettman. Accept that you screwed up, move on, and do things right.

Speaking of Bettman... how long has he been the commissioner? 15 years? What has he really accomplished, other than adding more teams? Has he really made the sport better? Has he made the existing owners more money than they were making before he took over? I really think it's time for a fresh start with someone new leading the league.

Post by **batdad** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:55 pm

In order:

Never, about that, nothing, no, yes, yes.

Post by **Shadd666** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:50 pm

batdad wrote:In order:

Never, about that, nothing, no, yes, yes.

Sums it all perfectly

Bettman has yet to understand that hockey territory is not the US, but Canada. The day he'll understand that, he... hmm... well... in fact, i doubt he will ever understand that.

So yeah, a fresh start is clearly needed.

Anyone knows when it will be possible to change the comissioner?

Post by **CeeBee** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:02 am

Shadd666 wrote:
batdad wrote:In order:

Never, about that, nothing, no, yes, yes.
Sums it all perfectly

Bettman has yet to understand that hockey territory is not the US, but Canada. The day he'll understand that, he... hmm... well... in fact, i doubt he will ever understand that.

So yeah, a fresh start is clearly needed.

Anyone knows when it will be possible to change the comissioner?

When the board of governors comes to their senses and cans him.

Franck · Post by **Franck** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:41 am

Shadd666 wrote:
batdad wrote:In order:

Never, about that, nothing, no, yes, yes.
Sums it all perfectly

Bettman has yet to understand that hockey territory is not the US, but Canada. The day he'll understand that, he... hmm... well... in fact, i doubt he will ever understand that.

So yeah, a fresh start is clearly needed.

Anyone knows when it will be possible to change the comissioner?

When the guy retires in a few years time.
The guy (or a**hole to be more correct) is like 59 or something, unless he really enjoys screwing hockey fans over he won't stay as commissioner very long into his 60's.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:44 pm

Shadd666 wrote: Bettman has yet to understand that hockey territory is not the US, but Canada.

That's a little too broad of a statement. The US is a pretty large country. Hockey is extremely popular in many of the northern states. Places that have snow and ice occurring naturally tend to gravitate towards hockey more than those that are sunny and warm most of the year. Bettman thinks that he can cram hockey into places like Nashville because it's the #14 television market (just throwing a random number out there, not sure on exactly what market it is). That's solely what his expansion was based upon. Television markets. It had nothing to do with a demand for hockey. Most of the places he put teams would've been lucky to support a minor league team.

Franck · Post by **Franck** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:47 pm

Heh, just read that the Rangers are interested in bringing Avery to New York for a second stint with the team

Post by **batdad** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:51 pm

Of course they are. or at least of course someone would mention that. After all, he played well there. Its like saying Ed Jovonovski is "rumoured" to want to sign back in Vancouver or Florida. Or that Sundin may go back to Toronto....

Or Forsberg to Nash, Philly, Colorado....

It is an easy rumour to print or note...now if it really happens? Hahahahaahahaha. Rangers will suck with or without him any way. Rangers always suck. Save one year in the last what 68?

The Hutch · Post by **The Hutch** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:46 am

Bettman, and the entire league office, needs to realize that you can't make ton of cash with hockey in parts of the USA where the sport is not generally participated in. Hockey is huge across Canada because it is played all across Canada, whereas there is organized basketball, football, and baseball in every part of the mainland USA.

Bettman has been absolutely terrible, but the owners as a whole also need to be held accountable for the expansion situation. They all saw dollar signs with the league entrance fees, but of course why should they care if said projects don't pan out?

The Coyotes aren't long for Phoenix, as the league will not be able to continuously justify having a hemmoraging franchise in an epic fail of a location. And with the current economic situation, the smartest and most logical thing for the league (Not that they're well known for those) would be to retreat back to the confines of tried, tested, and true markets.

Post by **Shadd666** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:48 pm

Yeah, when i was talking about USA vs Canada, i was mostly thinking about stuff like the relocation of the Winnipeg Jets in the desert of Arizona. This was just a perfect non-sense from a hockey standpoint.

Or moving the Minnesota North Stars to Dallas. This is within USA, but a big market lost his team there... just to have one back some years later with the Wild.

Quebec moved to Colorado? Who cares about hockey in Denver? Who doesn't in Quebec City?

Then there's Nashville, Carolina, Florida... they might be big TV markets, but the arenas are empty and/or without any emotion.

Yes, there are some big hockey markets in the US. Not as much as in Canada, but there are. Sure, USA has way more people than Canada. But still... 6 teams out of 30 being located in Canada, that's just a non-sense. If the league isn't strong in its main markets, they will never develop to other markets correctly. Several big hockey markets are dying for a team, but the league prefers giving expansion teams to non-markets.

And since a few years, there are rumors about expansion in Europe. Paris is a big TV market in Europe, so the city is likely to have a NHL team if we follow Bettman's logic... It would be stupid, as Paris has simply no hockey team in this no hockey market that France is. The (eventual) team would face bankrupt rather quickly.

If the league wants to make money, it would be smarter to develop strong markets, where fans will come and allow their local team to have enough cash, rather than facing recurrent difficulties in no-markets like Phoenix...

Just my two cents...

Post by **batdad** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:54 am

Colorado and Dallas have become good hockey markets though. Both Texas and Colorado are starting to put out a fair # of kids who will be playing either in the WHL (since they hold the rights to those areas) or college in the near future. It is actually surprising how well these areas are doing with youth in hockey.

So,....Quebec still into hockey...Colorado added in.
Winnipeg...still into hockey...well, nope not working...

Minnesota still into hockey (Wild too!) Dallas now into it.

2 out of 3 relocations worked. Oh, and Phoenix actually has one hell of a minor hockey program as well. A few kids are coming out of it to Jr and college in the next few years....

But yeah...in Phoenix pro game struggling. Dallas and Colorado were major success stories though.

The other non hockey areas..Flo, TB, Nash, Car...not so much. But I hear there are a couple of kids in Carolina that are looking like pretty dang good players for Jr leagues or college in the near future.

Post by **Shadd666** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:36 am

Both Colorado and Dallas had a Cup relatively early after their relocation, which probably helped a lot to develop the market... Probably not the only reason though, as Carolina and Tampa also get a Cup in recent years, but remain weak markets.

What bugs me is that the league is trying to artificially create new markets where there is no demand. Sometimes it accidentally works. Most of the time it doesn't. But why not simply developing existing markets, where fans are dying to see a hockey team? For TV reasons? That makes few sense... Nowadays, it's easy to follow every game on the internet (even legaly now, which is a surprising improvement ^^), so the fans who want to see the games will see it, no matter if they are televised or not. But noone watches a Florida-Carolina, not even in the arena. Even Toronto in its crappiest days attracts more fans! Difference is that Toronto is a hockey market.

A real market means more ticket sales, more souvenirs sales, and therefore a healthy franchise from a financial point of view. Even in the bad days. While Nashville and Phoenix are regularly in financial troubles. Even if the legendary Gretzky is in Phoenix, the coyotes stay in the desert and don't go to the arena... Especially when Arizona makes it to the Superbowl

I can understand that the league wanted/wants to extend, but they can't force people to love hockey (or anything else for that matter). If there is no demand, there is no market, and it's therefore stupid to make an offer. That's a very simple economic rule that even kids know... If they really want to go on some territories, they should first try to create a real market, with lower leagues and/or junior/college teams, and see from there if there's a potentially big enough market to support financially a NHL team. No passion = no market. No market = no finances. No finances = impossible for a NHL team to survive very long on its own. So the key is to bring the passion, not to implement a NHL team straight away.

Well, unless i've lost all logical sense, obviously...

Post by **getzlaf15** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:49 am

Wouldn't the NHL benefit from having more Canadian teams? Seen although that is where the majority of players and dare i say fans come from?

It's a bit like the NFL, its all American teams because that is where the fans are.

Although obvisouly working the whole North American market makes sense, just thought they could add more Canadian teams?

Post by **batdad** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:20 am

It might benefit, but it is hard to say. Quebec has no rink, and even when the Nords were around...it was a hard sell unless the team was tops in the league, because everyone there grew up a fan of Les Habitants.

Winnipeg--With the economy going into a nutsac, hard to say if this would prosper. The Moose do okay, but in a rink way to small to create enough NHL revenue. However, even at 10k fans it is likely better than Phoenix is right now.

Other areas--Southern Ontario should be no issue, Halifax is too small, and really where else do you go? Small cities and areas just not big enough to deal with it. More border towns are needed in the NHL....like Seattle (Which may or may not work) Portland (Which likely won't work), and areas on the East Coast (Such as Maine) are showing already that they cannot handle it....Lewiston MAINEiacs have applied to move team to Quebec somewhere outside of Montreal because they have lost money every year that they have been in Lewiston.

I dunno, not many markets left that are "hockey" markets. Time to boot a couple teams me thinks...

Franck · Post by **Franck** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:47 am

I think that if the Coyotes had a few more seasons in Arizona they could establish themselves in the market as they have a young squad that has the potential to achieve great things in the future, something that I think could have generated enough interest to keep them there.
The problem is that they are generating such massive losses that waiting a few years because you might be good isn't an option.

I think Phoenix could have proven itself as a good market for hockey if the Coyotes success would have come a few years earlier, unfortunatly the Coyotes have been poor no-hopers ever since they got there in '96.
Phoenix had just as much potential as Dallas had, the difference was that Dallas inherited a team that was talented, Phoenix got a losing team with little hope for the future. Dallas won a Stanley Cup a couple of years after their move, 13 years after the Coyotes got to Phoenix they havn't gone further than the first round of the play-offs.

Post by **getzlaf15** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:29 pm

I think Steve Downie could be the new Avery, he's a total idiot, he was suspended a while back for a dirty hit on Dean McAmmond which he got 20 games for. And to cap it off, he was suspended awaiting review in the AHL for Slashing a wait for it... A linesman. What a clown. Kick him out of the game.

Post by **Shadd666** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:18 pm

Sean Avery at its best! LINK

Post by **getzlaf15** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:34 pm

I'm now taking bets as to how long it takes for the league to realise that this guy doesn't belong here and won't change.

Thomas should of attacked Avery with his blocker, not Sjostrom, that thing hurts!

Post by **joehelmer** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:34 pm

Wow, what a "accident". Please Bettman, get rid of Avery.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:39 pm

I was watching this game yesterday and I was quite angry when I saw this bush league move, like something out of Slapshot. What made me even angrier was that the refs didn't give Avery an extra penalty. It was 4 or 4 after that. Still, the Bruins clinched the East and Thomas held on for the shutout.

Thornton_27 · Post by **Thornton_27** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:28 am

getzlaf15 wrote:I'm now taking bets as to how long it takes for the league to realise that this guy doesn't belong here and won't change. Thomas should of attacked Avery with his blocker, not Sjostrom, that thing hurts!

Avery do take alot of people into the game i would say its funny youll never know what he will do!

I hate him to but he brings crowd to the games!