Challenge 13: Nashville Predators (Discussion Thread)

[Captcrunch]

Err...

My first line players are "Condition: 94%: in need of a rest"...

Too many minutes a game? I'm in the end of January. 1st time its happening. Anyone had this before? Almost perfect condition and in need of a rest?

Yeah, you're over-playing them.

When you see this, usually immediately after a game, change their practice setting to "Resting." Also, during the game, try to lower their playing time a little bit. I read in your earlier post that the first line was averaging around 23.5 minutes for the forwards and 26 minutes for the defensemen. That is a crazy amount of minutes. I know you don't want to hear this but you really should juggle your lines a little and "share the love," so to speak.

Yeah, I kinda guessed that.

They were fine during season 1 so I just though it would be ok this season too (and I wanted them to continue to put up crazy amount of numbers) but this time it looks like I have a shot at the playoffs and I don't want to run my first line into the ground.

I reduced their training to "all medium" but I'll try to lower their playing time. I have more or less three solid lines now anyways so I'll spread the love.

Maybe a special conditioning session in february would do them good? Maybe it will only tire them too...

[timmy_t]

"Extra" conditioning will only tire them more, and then you run the risk of injuring them. You really should rest these extra tired guys after and between games until you can get their ice time down to a realistic level. "All medium" isn't going to give them enough rest, I know from experience...

It's fun to play the heck out of your workhorses and put up ridiculous numbers, but it stinks when you make the playoffs and then lose one of them for the rest of the season due to a big injury.

[Captcrunch]

"Extra" conditioning will only tire them more, and then you run the risk of injuring them. You really should rest these extra tired guys after and between games until you can get their ice time down to a realistic level. "All medium" isn't going to give them enough rest, I know from experience...

It's fun to play the heck out of your workhorses and put up ridiculous numbers, but it stinks when you make the playoffs and then lose one of them for the rest of the season due to a big injury.

Hehe.

Yeah. I get it. All my forwards are now below 20 minutes.

Thanks for the advice!

Sincerely

[timmy_t]

Anytime!

[Asher413]

Newbie curiosity-

I doubt it happens, and I probably don't have the time or patience, but I think it would be a kick after the challenge to see the breakdown of how each player was used. I'm thinking one of two things (and sorry for the off the wall thought... I'm pretty tired, so that's when things sound real good, that don't even make sense the next day)

% Of games played (I know Arnott and Sullivan would be near 100% for season one, but what about Tootoo or Nichol?)
Average points, +/- and all that
Who got the highest and lowest out of x and y player (can you imagine the shame of being the one who couldn't get Arnott to 20 points in season 1 )

Return to your regularly scheduled program!

[jbsnadb]

I have been curious as to how everyone sets up their team. Not everyone shares everything in these posts.

Arnott would need to play exclusively as a fourth line center with no special teams play to even come close to only 20 points.

In fact, the only guys who didn't reach that plateau for me were the ones who played fourth line minutes with no PP time (excluding d-men). None played a full schedule:

Grigori Shafigulin - 16 pts in 55 games
Brett Brietkreuz - 14 pts in 51 games
James Neal - 13 pts in 21 games (the only exception, but he was a deadline acquisition)
Marty Murray - 12 pts in 63 games
Antti Pihlstrom - 6 pts in 34 games
Matt Ellison - 5 pts in 51 games
Wade Belak - 4 pts in 31 games (injured for season)

[eternium85]

Season 4 signings and trades:

Traded de Vries and Shafigulin to Sabres for Paul Gaustad.

Traded Bonk and Eric Doyle to Penguins for Adam Henrich.

In Free Agency I went with the Tier II and signed Drew Doughty as Very Good and Kyle Turris as Good.


I needed to get rid of de Vries 'cause he was just getting too old and his physical attributes started to drop. And I needed a 3rd line defensive center as I was going to trade Bonk away too and Gaustad is someone who I've never had before.

I was trying to trade a top two defenseman or atleast a top four defenseman in my second trade but couldn't pull off anything with the players I tried to offer. So I went with Henrich to get some talent on my left wing, someone who can play both offense and defense. Henrich has really nice attributes and he is still cheap enough so I could fit him in my team.

In the UFA signings I needed to land a defenseman and Doughty came available so I offered him a contract. I had to pay almost double the amount he was asking because of the Tier rules. And he, of course, agreed. Now I atleast have some young talent on my defense.

With the second signing I tried just to grab some depth to my 3rd and 4th line. There really wasn't anyone I liked that much, but yet again some young guys were made available and I spotted Turris. I kind of hate to put him in my 4th line but there really isn't any bigger role for him as I have Wilson, Arnott and Gaustad playing in front of him. I might try him in my 3rd line as a RW but we'll see.

After the first 20 games we are 1st in the conference and we are brutal offensively but our defense and PK are just awful. AND we take a lot of penalties. I guess tarding away de Vries and Bonk really messed up our defensive play. PP is doing somewhat good as we were around 20% few games back but after that we have dropped and are around 15%. They seem to do nicely in one game and then just don't seem to find the net in the next couple of games
And it seems that most of the PP goals are done from straight attacks from our own zone or from the faceoffs.

[bruins72]

Ha Ha ! The Stars released Fabian Brunnstrom to free agency. I think they did it because they don't have an AHL affiliate...

IIRC, he got traded in either the first or second season of my game. So far he hasn't done much. He just looks okay.

[bruins72]

Err...

My first line players are "Condition: 94%: in need of a rest"...

Too many minutes a game? I'm in the end of January. 1st time its happening. Anyone had this before? Almost perfect condition and in need of a rest?

This happens to me all of the time. It's a combination of training and playing a lot of minutes. This always happens to my top line, some of my second line, and about 3 of my top 4 defensemen. Once this happens I just switch them to "general" training for the rest of the season and they're fine.

[bruins72]

Yeah, I kinda guessed that.

They were fine during season 1 so I just though it would be ok this season too (and I wanted them to continue to put up crazy amount of numbers) but this time it looks like I have a shot at the playoffs and I don't want to run my first line into the ground.

I reduced their training to "all medium" but I'll try to lower their playing time. I have more or less three solid lines now anyways so I'll spread the love.

Maybe a special conditioning session in february would do them good? Maybe it will only tire them too...

Once they get to that point there really isn't much you can do besides cut back on their training and ice time. Maybe give them shorter shifts? You can also change the line usage. I usually try to go with "Normal" or "Equal".

[bruins72]

I have been curious as to how everyone sets up their team. Not everyone shares everything in these posts.

I agree! This is something we used to go more of way back in some of the old challenges. There was a lot of "sharing". Then there was a lot of secrecy. Nobody wanted to give away any clues about what was making them successful. Now it's a bit of a mixed bag.

I'd really like to encourage everyone to blog about their challenge team if they have the time. It's a great way of sharing the details of your team with the rest of the community. I've done it in the past but I seem to have less and less time/focus these days.

[Captcrunch]

I have been curious as to how everyone sets up their team. Not everyone shares everything in these posts.

Arnott would need to play exclusively as a fourth line center with no special teams play to even come close to only 20 points.

In fact, the only guys who didn't reach that plateau for me were the ones who played fourth line minutes with no PP time (excluding d-men). None played a full schedule:

Grigori Shafigulin - 16 pts in 55 games
Brett Brietkreuz - 14 pts in 51 games
James Neal - 13 pts in 21 games (the only exception, but he was a deadline acquisition)
Marty Murray - 12 pts in 63 games
Antti Pihlstrom - 6 pts in 34 games
Matt Ellison - 5 pts in 51 games
Wade Belak - 4 pts in 31 games (injured for season)

Well, I'm pretty detailed in how I set up the team...

From what I see, one thing you have to remember is that its a team effort. If your goalie sucks and you keep losing, guys are going to get depressed. Arnott is my best player. I put him captain with my 2 best wingers and my 2 best defensemen. I have already detailed how I set up my personal settings...

Maybe your training regimen is not solid and Arnott's stats are decreasing? Maybe your tactical system does not fit your line?

Here are Arnott's stats:



Arnott is on my 1st line and 1st PP.

*Forward usage is normal
*PP usage favor 1st
*use unit tactic on
*1st line setting: Shift lenght: 40 sec, dumping the puck: rarely, breakouts: positional, neutral zone offensive: positional, offensive zone: triangular, forecheck: 3-2, neutral zone offensive: 1-2-2, defensive zone: open, offensive faceoffs: basic, defensive faceoff: basis.

Anyways, that's what works for me. If you want to turbocharge your line, use them with 60 sec shifts but they are going to be a bit tired after 40-50 games.

I use the "3 medium/ 3 intensive" training regimen.

Arnott season so far: 87 points in 50 games.

[Captcrunch]

Err...

My first line players are "Condition: 94%: in need of a rest"...

Too many minutes a game? I'm in the end of January. 1st time its happening. Anyone had this before? Almost perfect condition and in need of a rest?

This happens to me all of the time. It's a combination of training and playing a lot of minutes. This always happens to my top line, some of my second line, and about 3 of my top 4 defensemen. Once this happens I just switch them to "general" training for the rest of the season and they're fine.

Hmm... right now I've lowered their minutes to sub-20 a game but if they start to get in trouble I'll put everyone that starts to get this condition on general. I'm fortunate to have players that play better now so I can share the ice. Last game went good enough!

[mustardstew]

OK, finally (re-)underway in season 2, LOL. Kinda sporadic, but we're getting ready to come back to the US for the summer.

Recap:
The Predators sucked in Season 1. I was battling for last all season, making it as high as 11th, once.
Successes:
Platonov surprised, performing pretty well (81 GP, 18-30-48, 7.25 Rating);
Belak thrived in his enforcer / checker role! Even scored a few!;
Balanced scoring (better than expected!);
Decent practices;
Rinne made the Rookie All-Stars (though I suspect by default).

Needs to be Improved:
Consistency (too many good games followed by bad (9-6-7-5-4-5), esp. by goaltenders, Ward petered out by the middle of the year, Sullivan took 3 months to get going, it goes on...
Nichol, Tootoo, Hornqvist and Fiddler could not secure spots and ended up on the farm most of the season. Hornqvist I figured, but I needed the vets to stand up and play, and they couldn't. I'm sure it's tactics, but not one player?
I made some mistakes re-signing people (too many) - novice NHL GM, I guess, but I got worried about replacing all the contracts that expired in 2007. Need to let more people go. Hence, overpay on my first trade.

So, starting Season 2, the Predators send Rinne, Ward, and Thuresson to Montreal for Halak (yes, again). I don't really like the tenders that are out on the market, esp. as I need to add useful depth. Pickard is the tentative goalie for the future, but I need to improve the pipeline. Halak is 24, my scouts like him, and he needs to get out from the shadow of Jesus (Price, that is ).
The Predators also signed prospects Kulyash, Andersson, Shafigulin and Zucharelli-Aasen, a 22 year old Norwiegen (re)draft pick (a'la Boynton) who is already better than all LW but Sullivan - starting him in MIL for seasoning. Radulov isn't coming over, ever. I'll keep his rights for spite.
We went Tier 3 for FAs. Tried to get Vananaan, but no love. We are able to get Axelsson and Yelle, and sign Garlock for Milwaukee, as they had it even worse than we did. Saving the second trade to fill holes, and ditch some of Nichol / Fiddler / Tootoo / Ortmeyer.

Lines are, right now:
Erat-Arnott-Dumont
Sullivan-Legwand-Hornqvist
Axelsson-Yelle-Bonk
Platonov-Shafigulin-Belak (although my top 3 centers usually play with this line after the first half of each games, as Belak gets tossed, LOL)

I guess, tactic-wise, I like to roll 4 lines, equally, all responsible defensively while being able to score, and depend on my PP. Little bit of Bruins (2008-09 version), more Detroit, I guess. Still working on it, of course. I think I'm closer on tactics - working on personal now (Thanks for the tips - we'll see how it goes ).

I've been mostly working on depth and getting my prospects (many of whom are better than my roster) playing time, while ditching the trash, as possible (pay $1.2M in compensation for that POS Smithson... geez...) LOL

Looking forward to the future, as many of my picks from 2009 (Tavares, Barrie, Penner and Orlov) project as great future NHLers - in two years with a second line of Wilson-Tavares-whoever - SWEET!!

So I'm looking at 2 years before being able to make serious noise, I think. But, sneak into the playoffs this year, and you never know.

Thanks for reading my novel!!

[bruins72]

Err...

My first line players are "Condition: 94%: in need of a rest"...

Too many minutes a game? I'm in the end of January. 1st time its happening. Anyone had this before? Almost perfect condition and in need of a rest?

This happens to me all of the time. It's a combination of training and playing a lot of minutes. This always happens to my top line, some of my second line, and about 3 of my top 4 defensemen. Once this happens I just switch them to "general" training for the rest of the season and they're fine.

Hmm... right now I've lowered their minutes to sub-20 a game but if they start to get in trouble I'll put everyone that starts to get this condition on general. I'm fortunate to have players that play better now so I can share the ice. Last game went good enough!

Right now I'm 56 games into the season and I've had a handful of players set to "General" practice for a couple weeks. Icetime hasn't been much of a factor...

Player - ATOI
Arnott - 17:10
Michalek - 18:42
Dumont - 18:53
Legwand - 18:38
Bouwmeester - 25:45
Suter - 23:22
Weber - 26:21
Vaananen - 18:00

So that's my top 4 forwards and top 4 defensemen. I feel that they're getting the appropriate amount of ice time for their role yet they'll still tire out at the same time of year.

[Captcrunch]

This happens to me all of the time. It's a combination of training and playing a lot of minutes. This always happens to my top line, some of my second line, and about 3 of my top 4 defensemen. Once this happens I just switch them to "general" training for the rest of the season and they're fine.

Hmm... right now I've lowered their minutes to sub-20 a game but if they start to get in trouble I'll put everyone that starts to get this condition on general. I'm fortunate to have players that play better now so I can share the ice. Last game went good enough!

Right now I'm 56 games into the season and I've had a handful of players set to "General" practice for a couple weeks. Icetime hasn't been much of a factor...

Player - ATOI
Arnott - 17:10
Michalek - 18:42
Dumont - 18:53
Legwand - 18:38
Bouwmeester - 25:45
Suter - 23:22
Weber - 26:21
Vaananen - 18:00

So that's my top 4 forwards and top 4 defensemen. I feel that they're getting the appropriate amount of ice time for their role yet they'll still tire out at the same time of year.

Hmm! Thx for the feedback!

[Mikita21]

I have been curious as to how everyone sets up their team. Not everyone shares everything in these posts.

I generally go with Offensive, sometimes Very Offensive, as my teams tend to be top-heavy with highly skilled forwards, rather than DMen. However, I will scale this back if I'm able to pick up a franchise-type goalie. I use personal tactics as well to play to a player's strengths.

[bruins72]

OK, finally (re-)underway in season 2, LOL. Kinda sporadic, but we're getting ready to come back to the US for the summer.

Recap:
The Predators sucked in Season 1. I was battling for last all season, making it as high as 11th, once.
Successes:
Platonov surprised, performing pretty well (81 GP, 18-30-48, 7.25 Rating);
Belak thrived in his enforcer / checker role! Even scored a few!;
Balanced scoring (better than expected!);
Decent practices;
Rinne made the Rookie All-Stars (though I suspect by default).

I really like Platonov. He's been a solid third line guy for me since joining the team. I even use him to fill in on the top 2 lines if their there is an injury. Just be careful about letting him take too many penalties. He gets whiny about it and thinks the refs are picking on him.

I'm really surprised that you got such good performance out of Belak. I couldn't get him to play well at all for me. I ended up sending him down to the AHL. He's not with us at all anymore.

Needs to be Improved:
Consistency (too many good games followed by bad (9-6-7-5-4-5), esp. by goaltenders, Ward petered out by the middle of the year, Sullivan took 3 months to get going, it goes on...
Nichol, Tootoo, Hornqvist and Fiddler could not secure spots and ended up on the farm most of the season. Hornqvist I figured, but I needed the vets to stand up and play, and they couldn't. I'm sure it's tactics, but not one player?
I made some mistakes re-signing people (too many) - novice NHL GM, I guess, but I got worried about replacing all the contracts that expired in 2007. Need to let more people go. Hence, overpay on my first trade.

I found Fiddler and Nichol to be a complete waste of time. I used them as trade fodder, IIRC. Tootoo is still my 3rd/4th line troublemaker. He does okay. Hornqvist (as well as Jessiman and Pihlstrom) hasn't found a spot on my Nashville roster. He almost seems better suited to the AHL. I'm sure he'll be trade fodder at some point.

So, starting Season 2, the Predators send Rinne, Ward, and Thuresson to Montreal for Halak (yes, again). I don't really like the tenders that are out on the market, esp. as I need to add useful depth. Pickard is the tentative goalie for the future, but I need to improve the pipeline. Halak is 24, my scouts like him, and he needs to get out from the shadow of Jesus (Price, that is ).
The Predators also signed prospects Kulyash, Andersson, Shafigulin and Zucharelli-Aasen, a 22 year old Norwiegen (re)draft pick (a'la Boynton) who is already better than all LW but Sullivan - starting him in MIL for seasoning. Radulov isn't coming over, ever. I'll keep his rights for spite.

Nice find with Zuccarello. I tend to focus my scouts on guys no older than 19 in the first season and then 18 after that. Looks like a missed a decent player there.

We went Tier 3 for FAs. Tried to get Vananaan, but no love. We are able to get Axelsson and Yelle, and sign Garlock for Milwaukee, as they had it even worse than we did. Saving the second trade to fill holes, and ditch some of Nichol / Fiddler / Tootoo / Ortmeyer.

Lines are, right now:
Erat-Arnott-Dumont
Sullivan-Legwand-Hornqvist
Axelsson-Yelle-Bonk
Platonov-Shafigulin-Belak (although my top 3 centers usually play with this line after the first half of each games, as Belak gets tossed, LOL)

I guess, tactic-wise, I like to roll 4 lines, equally, all responsible defensively while being able to score, and depend on my PP. Little bit of Bruins (2008-09 version), more Detroit, I guess. Still working on it, of course. I think I'm closer on tactics - working on personal now (Thanks for the tips - we'll see how it goes ).

Interesting lines there! They look good enough to roll all 4 evenly, IMO. Two offensive and two defensive. That might even work with line matching. Or you could just let the 3rd and 4th line tire everyone out.

I've been mostly working on depth and getting my prospects (many of whom are better than my roster) playing time, while ditching the trash, as possible (pay $1.2M in compensation for that POS Smithson... geez...) LOL

Looking forward to the future, as many of my picks from 2009 (Tavares, Barrie, Penner and Orlov) project as great future NHLers - in two years with a second line of Wilson-Tavares-whoever - SWEET!!

So I'm looking at 2 years before being able to make serious noise, I think. But, sneak into the playoffs this year, and you never know.

Thanks for reading my novel!!

Good luck!

Thanks for posting your novel. I actually like reading detail like that. It helps you understand what other people are thinking when they run their teams. I also think it was smart the way you laid out what worked, what didn't work, and what you goals are for the future. That's a smart way to do it. I think that's an effective way to wrap up a season.

[mustardstew]

Hey B72 - thanks for the feedback and encouragement!

I have to admit, I probably didn't give Tootoo a great shot... but Belak, already being up (from the farm), took the spot for agitator/enforcer 4th line RW and ran with it... plus he's improved with practice

Any way to check a players shootout success? I haven't found it, but I swear Platonov is GOLD in shootouts. I can't remember him not scoring on one... he won opening night in shootout vs. the Blackhawks

[mustardstew]

Oh, and barring significant injury (Arnott, Dumont, Weber et al), I'll be getting defensive farm team help with my second trade. Klein is ready, just needs the spot (DeVries, Koistinen, or Hamhuis (he really needs to play well this year or he's gone)), and Lakkso is close, but the rest stink / are projects (still 2+ years away)

I've still got my eye on a couple of Colorado prospects - Vernace and Ryan Wilson... but will be interested in others... remembering that it's 2-3 4th liners / vets getting the move (this trade has Scott Nichol's name ALL over it )

[jbsnadb]

Season four is frustrating in whole new ways.

Pittsburgh failed to re-sign Jordan Staal, so now he is sitting out there and I can't touch him. He's RFA...can't trade for his rights, can't tender him an offer sheet.

The Pens even invited him to training camp, but cut his tryout short.

Also made a play in July for Sergei Gonchar from the cash-strapped Blackhawks, but they were rejecting deals left and right. Thought he would be traded before my window opened back up in October, but as soon as the 15th rolled around, Chicago WAIVED HIM!!!!!!!

Needless to say,he was claimed. silly billies!!!!!!

On the ice, we started a pathetic 0-4-0. I take all the blame, trying to rely on personal tactics alone to see us through, but 5 goals in four games was enough for me to implement the old shoot-em-up tactic that ran us into the playoffs last season (had turned off unit tactics - they're back on now). Hopefully, the personal tactics will temper the defense a bit. We've pulled the record even to 4-4-0 in a three way tie for the final playoff spot and only 2 points behind the division-leading Blues.

[thecupismine]

I'm doing a lot better in the second season, but the same problems that I had in the past season still exist: Inconsistency, poor powerplay (anyone ever gone 0/12 before?), poor penalty killing and inconsistent goaltending. I'd ask for special teams help (12 % pp and 80% pk) but this doesn't seem to be the right place because it's a challenge thread. Overall though, the team is sitll trucking along but this time around with a lot more timely scoring and a shutdown defence, at even strength, of course when needed (Betts and Ortmeyer are awesome at this). I'd also like to mention that Dan Hamhuis continues to be an awesome defenceman for me, playing around 25 minutes a night and still putting up a high plus minus as well as scoring the most goals from the blueline. Weird how in some games things work so differently...

[Captcrunch]

God I'm hurting.

I'm bleeding goals, hurt guys everywhere, my starting goalie got cold... I'm dropping like a rock in the standings.

I've tried to revert to the tactics I used but nothing seems to work.

God... I'm 2-6-2 in my last 10 games... ack.

[jbsnadb]

I just came to the realization that I can't remember the last time I started off a segment with a victory.

It's been at least since season two.

[jbsnadb]

Every once in awhile, there are things that make me smile:

Ex-Pred Goes COLD

Since I've never gotten this message about someone on my team, especially a top six calibre player, I feel justified in not keeping him around.