Challenge 14: Winnipeg Jets (Discussion Thread)

Post by **CatchUp** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:10 pm

I finally got my first quarter posted. I went 12-6-2. Not bad, but not great. It figures, in game #21, I just blew out Huet and the Blackhawks 9-2 at the good 'ole MTS Centre.
I was really pleased with the whole game - totally balanced scoring. Check it:

I'm liking this team a lot so far...

gibson41 · Post by **gibson41** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:04 pm

After numerous talkings with several teams, discussing various players, countless of combinations, it came down to these off-season moves:

2nd July - Trade with Maple Leafs - D Orpik in, D Stralman out
6th July - Signing of a free agent D Boynton to a 3-year deal worth $4,500,000
8th July - Trade with Trashers - C Langkow & D Salmela in, C Steen & C Torquato out

I managed to fill all the gaps with these three moves, there wasn't even need to do a second UFA signing. I bolsted my defense with hard hitting Orpik and two-way oriented Boynton, replaced unexperienced and undeveloped Steen with veteran Langkow and acquired Salmela, who should replace Stralman as #1 D in San Antonio. I like this team now...every guy has his own place, his own role, and no overpaid superstars, yay!

Let the Season 2 begin!

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:44 am

gibson41 wrote:Draft recap:

#22 - LD Ryan Button - Projected 1-2 defenseman, more skilled version of Lasse Kukkonen

Interesting. He was ranked fairly high in my game (somewhere in the 1st round) but he didn't look all that good to me. I think it's another case of random potential. I'm hoping this guy turns out good in real life though. The Bruins drafted him.

grits207 · Post by **grits207** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:30 pm

The second portion of season 2 has been very frustrating so far, espescially considering how well the team performed in games 1-20. The team's poor play recently is mainly due to all of the injuries over the past few weeks. Currently injured are: Shane Doan (2 months), Michal Rozsival (2 weeks), Ladislav Smid (3 weeks), Duncan Keith (2 weeks) and Steve Montador (1 week). My practices aren't overly intense so I am just chalking it up to bad luck

On a positive note, all of my new additions have played well so far espescially Jason Blake who has 31 points and is +13 in 36 games dispite playing most of the season on the third line.

Post by **CatchUp** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:46 am

Oh man, the Canucks were already out in front in the division (and conference) and now in late January, they just traded for Brad Richards. Not good. Not good.

***

EDIT: and 5 days later they have traded with Calgary for Craig Conroy. I guess Gillis felt they were a little weak down the middle.

gibson41 · Post by **gibson41** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:56 pm

CatchUp wrote:Oh man, the Canucks were already out in front in the division (and conference) and now in late January, they just traded for Brad Richards. Not good. Not good.

***

EDIT: and 5 days later they have traded with Calgary for Craig Conroy. I guess they Gillis felt they were a little weak down the middle.

Man, I hate playing Canucks, but somehow I found way to win a few games over them in Season 1, including a 5-1 win. Take That Roberto !

But yeah, talk about a good depth at center position.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:02 pm

They were the team I always had the most trouble against in the Predators challenge. Having Sedin on their roster just makes them so good, never mind adding these other guys.

Post by **CatchUp** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:11 am

Yeah, they are my nemesis and I have basically no chance against them in this first season. Next year is a different story...

Post by **CatchUp** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:39 am

Oh snap - if only I could trade right now...

Just got offered Setoguchi, Petrecki and a 1st for Gagner.

"No, I'm sorry San Jose, I can't totally rip you off right now - but please call back next season."

EDIT

Another offer was Oduya, Hanzal and a 1st for Ganger. Lou, what are you thinking?

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:30 pm

Nice offers! They always seem to come up at the worst times.

At what point in the season are you? How much longer do you have until you can trade?

Post by **CatchUp** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:49 pm

I'm at the trade deadline. Finally overtook the Canucks in the Division (and therefore the Conference), but the Wings are right behind both of us. I know I won't last in the playoffs against either team, so I kinda hope my boys take a nose dive and we finish 5-6 so I get a somewhat decent draft pick.

gibson41 · Post by **gibson41** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:47 pm

I have mixed feelings about my pre-season exhibitions. I arranged an European tour featuring Slovan, Omsk, MODO, Pardubice and some stinky club from Israel, just for fun. I won 9-2 which is nothing impressive, hell, at one point it was even 2-2

. I won all those games, but not really by blowouts, goalies were underachieving, as they both had SV% under 0.900. When I returned to North America to play final three games, I lost 5-6 to Canadiens (Backstrom let 4 goals on 5 shots, talk about bad day

), and then finished with 6-2 and 9-0 wins over Rangers and Capitals. On the bright side, Toews had 18 points in 8 games, and all new acqusitions were performing and producing well, especially Langkow who had 12 pts in 6 games playing on second line. I was ranked 7th in pre-season analysis, and San Antonio first, which I expect to win Calder Cup once again. I signed a couple of guys in SA, who are young but promising, and since some teams released rights to players like Osala, and some other, I am trying my luck to sign them by SA, since I can't sign by Jets after 31st August. Sam Gagner is now in AHL, and expectations are high, he and Ryan should lead the way on the farm. Kirill Tulupov is starting to look good, even Joslin's attributes are rising. And since Selanne is retiring at the end of the season, it's gonna be a dogfight between Ryan and McArdle for that spot

Let the Season 2 begin!

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:56 pm

Hmmm... it's mid-December and I've got a big decision to make. My team has hit a slight rough patch and I need to change things up some. I 'm not happy with Ruutu's production on the 1st line and he didn't really do so hot on the second line in season 1. I'm also not entirely happy with my center situation. Toews is my center and has been since the start of season 1. He's really better suited to the second line center spot. My next best center is Pahlsson, who was hot as my second line center earlier in the season but has since cooled off. He's really not suited to be a 1st line center. Now suddenly, Chipchura is getting some interest around the league. I know at 23 years old, he's never going to be the center I need him to be. I've got 2 deals on the table that I can choose between.

Chipchura and Pahlsson to the Kings for Anze Kopitar

or

Chipchura to the Blackhawks for Andrew Ladd

With the Kopitar deal I can move Toews down to the second line and have Kopitar center the first line. This breaks up the killer McArdle-Chipchura-Ryan line down in San Antonio but those guys will find a way to get by without him. The Jets lose Pahlsson's veteran experience and defensive play but gain a strong, fast center with excellent offensive abilities but somewhat weak defensive abilities.

The Ladd deal doesn't really have any risk involved. I give up a minor league player that will never make my NHL roster for a strong, physical winger with decent offensive and defensive abilities and good skating. The problem is, this is my last trade for the season because I already did the Chara deal back in early July. So I'll still have Ruutu. I could put Ladd in as first line LW, keep Tkachuk at second line LW, and then Ruutu and Calder would have to fight over the third and fourth line LW spots. This also pushes Bates Battaglia out of the lineup. I'd have to waive him or Hilbert (no big loss there) because I'm currently carrying a 23 man roster. I'm not sure if this leaves me in much of a better position than I was in before.

So there you have it. That's my dilemma. If I put either deal on hold and try to find a better deal, I might lose whatever "shine" is on Chipchura right now that has teams interested in him. I'm leaning towards going with the Kopitar deal but I'm a little hesitant to give up Pahlsson.

Thoughts?

gibson41 · Post by **gibson41** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:22 pm

I would go with the Ladd swap. Why?

Toews really is a good center, and I don't know how such a offensive oriented manager can be complaining about him. In my game he racked up 105 points, so he definitely must perform even better under your tactics. And if that is not good enough for you, then I don't know what is.

Acquiring Kopitar will make you have two Toews-kind of centres. Both young, not fully developed yet, and it would just downgrade defensive capabilites of your offense. Pahlsson can be as productive, and I don't even have to mention his amazing defensive skills, and then you would lost a #1 center in SA, which is trying to win another Calder cup.

I absolutely low Ladd kind of players. Power forwards, hard hitters who can be very productive, I think you will find a spot for him on your team, and it will pay off. I don't have personal experience with him, but I believe he's a very good player. He will add toughness that is so important in when it's playoff time.

For me it would be a no brainer.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:48 pm

Interesting perspective. Looking at Kopitar and Toews, I wouldn't exactly say they're both the same kind of player. Toews isn't very strong. He's got a 15 strength compared to Kopitar's 18. I like to use the Overload Slot tactic and you need big, strong centers for that. Also, I wouldn't say that Kopitar is far from being fully developed. He's got 7 attributes in the green while Toews has none. Also, when you do a player comparison, Toews only beats Kopitar in Aggression, Influence, and Checking. He's 1 better in Agression, 2 better in Checking, and 6 better in Influence. They're tied in 6 attributes. Kopitar is better in 18 attributes.

Looking points production, Toews had 102 in 82 games last season centering Tkachuk and Selanne. Selanne has really slowed down this season and is retiring at the end. Tkachuk retires the season after and he's already showing signs of slowing down. Toews has 37 points in 30 games so far this season centering Ruutu and Doan. Kopitar had 82 points in 73 games last season on a bad Kings team. He's got 25 points in 30 games so far this season. But Kopitar's Average Rating was 8.81 last season and 8.80 so far this season. Toews was 7.59 last season and is 8.30 so far this season.

I don't know if I'd call this a no brainer. Looking at all of that, I'd say that Kopitar is an upgrade over Toews but if I do the Kopitar deal I'll have both of them as a 1-2 punch. The Ladd deal doesn't substantially upgrade one position.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:58 pm

Oh well! Looks like the Ladd deal isn't going to happen anyway. They had another deal working and their interest in Chipchura dropped once they got their other guy. By all signs in the trade window, I thought they would accept but what a difference a day makes.

I've taken the risk of delaying the Kopitar deal to look for something else. Just in case there is a better deal out there.

gibson41 · Post by **gibson41** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:04 pm

Then again, players vary game from game, in my game Toews is producing very well, and his avg. rating was 8.00 in his first season. I have to admit that I didn't check Kopitar's atrributes, I just judged from his young age. If you are looking to upgrade your center position, I personally would trade Chipchura for a proven veteran. But after all, you will win cup anyway. And if Kopitar is a two-way forward and a good hitter, then I might say yes after all. darn, its moment like these that makes me wanna play a EHM online game full of TBLers!

Anyway, bruins72, I checked your blog and I saw you let a lot of your AHLers go away, who did you fill these spots with? I swear it was like 10 players...

selne · Post by **selne** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:05 pm

bruins72 wrote:Interesting perspective. Looking at Kopitar and Toews, I wouldn't exactly say they're both the same kind of player. Toews isn't very strong. He's got a 15 strength compared to Kopitar's 18. I like to use the Overload Slot tactic and you need big, strong centers for that. Also, I wouldn't say that Kopitar is far from being fully developed. He's got 7 attributes in the green while Toews has none. Also, when you do a player comparison, Toews only beats Kopitar in Aggression, Influence, and Checking. He's 1 better in Agression, 2 better in Checking, and 6 better in Influence. They're tied in 6 attributes. Kopitar is better in 18 attributes.

Looking points production, Toews had 102 in 82 games last season centering Tkachuk and Selanne. Selanne has really slowed down this season and is retiring at the end. Tkachuk retires the season after and he's already showing signs of slowing down. Toews has 37 points in 30 games so far this season centering Ruutu and Doan. Kopitar had 82 points in 73 games last season on a bad Kings team. He's got 25 points in 30 games so far this season. But Kopitar's Average Rating was 8.81 last season and 8.80 so far this season. Toews was 7.59 last season and is 8.30 so far this season.

I don't know if I'd call this a no brainer. Looking at all of that, I'd say that Kopitar is an upgrade over Toews but if I do the Kopitar deal I'll have both of them as a 1-2 punch. The Ladd deal doesn't substantially upgrade one position.

Well, I'm not taking part in the challenge and don't really have the right to comment here. But reading the last posts, especially those from Bruins72, i got a bit disappointed.

All the experienced guys here, you start a challenge and talk about "challenge". But then you trade for the kind of players that make life very easy on EHM. What's the sense of trading for Kopitar? He's the Marleau, Thornton, Jokinen, Sundin type of player. You know that he will garantee goals for you (don't say it's not true, because you know those guys on EHM[-X ).
Remember my "No more heavyweights" post? You always win with those centers. Why do you want to trade for him? Because you see Tkachuk getting older and he was the reason why Toews played well? These big players make EHM boring. I don't see any challenge, if you always trade for those players!

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:12 pm

gibson41 wrote:Then again, players vary game from game, in my game Toews is producing very well, and his avg. rating was 8.00 in his first season. I have to admit that I didn't check Kopitar's atrributes, I just judged from his young age. If you are looking to upgrade your center position, I personally would trade Chipchura for a proven veteran. But after all, you will win cup anyway. And if Kopitar is a two-way forward and a good hitter, then I might say yes after all. darn, its moment like these that makes me wanna play a EHM online game full of TBLers!

Anyway, bruins72, I checked your blog and I saw you let a lot of your AHLers go away, who did you fill these spots with? I swear it was like 10 players...

I don't know if it was that many but I do have an AHL team that is full of over 90% players under contract to me. I've also got a few in the ECHL. I had to sign some players before losing their rights. I think I might be a couple players under the reserve limit max right now.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:19 pm

selne wrote: Well, I'm not taking part in the challenge and don't really have the right to comment here. But reading the last posts, especially those from Bruins72, i got a bit disappointed.

All the experienced guys here, you start a challenge and talk about "challenge". But then you trade for the kind of players that make life very easy on EHM. What's the sense of trading for Kopitar? He's the Marleau, Thornton, Jokinen, Sundin type of player. You know that he will garantee goals for you (don't say it's not true, because you know those guys on EHM[-X ).
Remember my "No more heavyweights" post? You always win with those centers. Why do you want to trade for him? Because you see Tkachuk getting older and he was the reason why Toews played well? These big players make EHM boring. I don't see any challenge, if you always trade for those players!

I don't think that I would lump Kopitar into the same category as Marleau, Thornton, and those others. I used him once before back in the LA Kings challenge and while he was good for me, he wasn't god-like as those other guys are. You disagree and that's fine.

As for making the challenges more challenging, we've consistently done this over the last 4 or 5 challenges. We've never made rules where you weren't allowed to get certain players. We've limited the trading so you can't build a super-team overnight. We've also limited the number of players involved in a trade so that it's harder to get the better players. While this challenge starts off a little easier than others because of our starting fantasy roster, we're losing a lot of that talent year by year and we aren't allowed to trade those players that we're set to lose.

Obviously these posts touched some nerve with you but in all honesty, the sky isn't falling.

selne · Post by **selne** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:56 pm

bruins72 wrote:
selne wrote: Well, I'm not taking part in the challenge and don't really have the right to comment here. But reading the last posts, especially those from Bruins72, i got a bit disappointed.

All the experienced guys here, you start a challenge and talk about "challenge". But then you trade for the kind of players that make life very easy on EHM. What's the sense of trading for Kopitar? He's the Marleau, Thornton, Jokinen, Sundin type of player. You know that he will garantee goals for you (don't say it's not true, because you know those guys on EHM[-X ).
Remember my "No more heavyweights" post? You always win with those centers. Why do you want to trade for him? Because you see Tkachuk getting older and he was the reason why Toews played well? These big players make EHM boring. I don't see any challenge, if you always trade for those players!
I don't think that I would lump Kopitar into the same category as Marleau, Thornton, and those others. I used him once before back in the LA Kings challenge and while he was good for me, he wasn't god-like as those other guys are. You disagree and that's fine.

As for making the challenges more challenging, we've consistently done this over the last 4 or 5 challenges. We've never made rules where you weren't allowed to get certain players. We've limited the trading so you can't build a super-team overnight. We've also limited the number of players involved in a trade so that it's harder to get the better players. While this challenge starts off a little easier than others because of our starting fantasy roster, we're losing a lot of that talent year by year and we aren't allowed to trade those players that we're set to lose.

Obviously these posts touched some nerve with you but in all honesty, the sky isn't falling.

No, the sky is still there!

You just win too much, and i think it can't be fun. Many guys won the Stanley right in their first season in the challenges, because every team had it's star player. Arnott in the last Nashville challenge, now there is Tkachuk, Doan.

The last time i played EHM i had only players with less than 190 lbs and 150 potential on my roster. That was really challenging, to make tactics that work for the small and skinny players in the game. My star player was Stephen Weiss with 70 points in the first season. That was fun, because i didn't won a Stanley Cup in the first seasons. When i read about people trading for guys like Chara.. I just think it can't be fun to always win.

gibson41 · Post by **gibson41** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:22 pm

I feel you selne, I try to avoid these superstars as much as possible lately, in this challenege especially, my acquisitions are far from being stars, and they are still very important to me.

grits207 · Post by **grits207** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:27 pm

selne wrote: Well, I'm not taking part in the challenge and don't really have the right to comment here. But reading the last posts, especially those from Bruins72, i got a bit disappointed.

All the experienced guys here, you start a challenge and talk about "challenge". But then you trade for the kind of players that make life very easy on EHM. What's the sense of trading for Kopitar? He's the Marleau, Thornton, Jokinen, Sundin type of player. You know that he will garantee goals for you (don't say it's not true, because you know those guys on EHM[-X ).
Remember my "No more heavyweights" post? You always win with those centers. Why do you want to trade for him? Because you see Tkachuk getting older and he was the reason why Toews played well? These big players make EHM boring. I don't see any challenge, if you always trade for those players!

I don't think getting Kopitar would make the game boring at all. If somebody manages to get Kopitar or any other talented player then good for them. I have been trying all game to get a legit 1st line player but it is tough because of the rules. If I somehow find a deal that is within the rules, makes atleast a bit of sense for the other team and gives me a star player then I will be more than happy.

selne · Post by **selne** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:49 pm

grits207 wrote:I don't think getting Kopitar would make the game boring at all. If somebody manages to get Kopitar or any other talented player then good for them. I have been trying all game to get a legit 1st line player but it is tough because of the rules. If I somehow find a deal that is within the rules, makes atleast a bit of sense for the other team and gives me a star player then I will be more than happy.

IRL you don't see young first line centers being traded that often. Teams prefer centers to wingers at the draft because they know how important that position is. And EHM knows that.

gibson41 · Post by **gibson41** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:29 pm

So the Season 2 is oficially under way with a double win against Wild, 5-1 and 9-3. But my 0% PP is bugging me, and lack of D productivity. I have 4 days off before I am playing Kings, so I have to look closely at the early-season problems

. Anyway I am happy about balanced scoring, 12 players have at least 3 points going into third game