Leagues

[Alessandro]

By the way, are you planning a one-league system or with multiple leagues/nations?

[dabo]

Multiple leagues is the goal.

[Jypfan92]

Hopefully you make Swiss National A league playable. I can't stand why it isn't playable in EHM

[axwel3221]

Hopefully you make Swiss National A league playable. I can't stand why it isn't playable in EHM

I'd also like it in the game.

[Jypfan92]

And about EHM, i just don't know why there's Slovenian or Norwegian leagues but not Swiss. It's one of the best European leagues, after KHL, Elitserien, Sm-league, Extraliga and DEL (or maybe it's better than DEL).

[McQwak]

If it's customizable enough, there will always be possibility to create as many (new)leagues and teams as you want

[Animal]

I've got a question about the "hockey world" in the game. Will there be nations where hockey isn't that popular, but it is played. I mean, is it possible to have e.g. Spanish players?

[dabo]

I've got a question about the "hockey world" in the game. Will there be nations where hockey isn't that popular, but it is played. I mean, is it possible to have e.g. Spanish players?

Eventually I want to make it so that you can create "your own" hockey world with for example Nigeria as the hockey country #1, it all depends on the database you load. What it will look like in the beginning, only god knows

[Animal]

The premier hockey league in the world: NHL (Nigerian Hockey League)


That's great

[Alessandro]

Did you think about the leagues included?

From the database's pow there should be no limits (partly true), but since we have to take performance etc into consideration I guess I will have to do something like NHL:EHM does, let the user choose playable leagues. But what leagues are in the game, playable or not, are determined by the selected database.[/quote]

I meant if you have a rough idea about how many and what leagues you will include!
I'll be willing to work with KHL

[archibalduk]

Dabo - how will you be coding the league structure and league rules?

EHM has always had the league structure and rules hardcoded (and I think FM still does this?). However the drawback with this is that it prevents expansion and customisation. This has really made keeping EHM up to date difficult because league structures have changed (i.e. leagues now have extra or fewer teams).

It would be brilliant if the league structure and rules could somehow be stored in the database so that:
1) Leagues could easily be updated; and
2) We could easily add new leagues to the database.

Perhaps the actual possible rules could be hardcoded in the game but you can set which of these rules apply for each league within the database.

[dabo]

Dabo - how will you be coding the league structure and league rules?

It would be brilliant if the league structure and rules could somehow be stored in the database so that:
1) Leagues could easily be updated; and
2) We could easily add new leagues to the database.

That is how it is now. However I need to restructure things because it is a bit clumsy atm. Hopefully the database guy can figure out a nice way to do this. Would be nice if someone with knowledge could put together a list of rules that need to be editable (may it be all of them).

[archibalduk]

I suppose you would need to list every single rule which exists. The effects of the rules would then have to be hardcoded into the game and somehow linked to a "rules" table in the database. Then you'll need to link a league to the relevant rules from the "rules" table. So when you edit a league you can choose from a list of rules to assign to that league.

[rfroese]

Could it be possible though, to make some rules customizable? Or maybe it would be better to say league structure rules? IE, I'd love to be able to change the NHL to make it promotion/relegation based (like Europe) instead of static as it is in the currently. Also, could farm team contracts be negotiable? Where you had to negotiate with your minor league team to keep them on board? That way if your farm team was promoted you would have to sign a new farm team... just a crazy thought.

[laskey 16]

Also, could farm team contracts be negotiable? Where you had to negotiate with your minor league team to keep them on board? That way if your farm team was promoted you would have to sign a new farm team... just a crazy thought.

I seem to remember this from one of the Football Manager games I played... you could enter talks to get feeder teams. Might be a good idea, although I think for the most part affiliates should be relatively static... eg it would be silly if the Toronto Marlies became the feeder team for Montreal, etc.

[empach]

although I think for the most part affiliates should be relatively static... eg it would be silly if the Toronto Marlies became the feeder team for Montreal, etc.

I think for that we could use a high loyalty rating or a favorite team kind of thing. Something like that.

[Lazion]

although I think for the most part affiliates should be relatively static... eg it would be silly if the Toronto Marlies became the feeder team for Montreal, etc.

I think for that we could use a high loyalty rating or a favorite team kind of thing. Something like that.

In Europe and in Finland they usually use nearest team as possible and which is best to develope their players.. if you understand what I mean. Let's make example: Oulun Kärpät had Kajaanin Hokki as their farm team for years. Hokki played in Mestis Fin-2. There's around 100-200km distance between Oulu and Kajaani. But after Oulun Kiekko-Laser got promoted in Mestis, Kärpät signed farm contract with them.
So distance and development is in key part in Europe.

[CeeBee]

On the subject of league structure and schedules. It would be nice if both options are database customizable. The number of teams, divisions, and conferences as well as the schedule... How many time each team plays in division, conference or league. Then it would be even possible to recreate the old 6 team NHL or any setup the NHL or for that matter any playable league has had over the years.

[dabo]

That is already in. But I am not looking forward to generating schedules.

[YZG]

One question just occured to me. How do you plan the game to handle the leagues that are promotion and relegation-based? They're getting rarer, but some leagues haven't ditched them yet (thanks God!), some users are likely to create them in their games if customization is available as planned (*whistles*) and I'd be curious to know how you plan to manage that question. It's an evergoing cause of displeasure on the FM forums because their systems never correctly handle demotion to specific lower leagues.

- YZG

[dabo]

This is something me and jatahati have yet to discuss.

[jatahati]

It's an evergoing cause of displeasure on the FM forums because their systems never correctly handle demotion to specific lower leagues.

- YZG

Can you throw bit more info on this? By demoting do you mean demoting with data editor or after relegation? And what kind of issues does this bring?

[YZG]

It's an evergoing cause of displeasure on the FM forums because their systems never correctly handle demotion to specific lower leagues.

- YZG

Can you throw bit more info on this? By demoting do you mean demoting with data editor or after relegation? And what kind of issues does this bring?

After relegation during the game. With lower leagues, usually, levels are subdivided into several geographical groups or sub-leagues. Obviously, for realism sake, people want to have teams be relegated to the correct group - and the problem lies there, often teams just go to the wrong group for various reasons, ranging from special case to disfunctionment of the implemented system(s). For instance, let's suppose in a fictious league I have a team from Helsinki finishing dead last of some II.Divisioona, thus being relegated to the III.Divisioona. However, the III.Divisioona is itself subdivided into four regional groups: South Finland, West Finland, East Finland and Lapland. You'll of course want the Helsinki team to be relegated in South Finland.

FM has tried to make it so in two different ways to my knowledge:

1. by giving each city coordinates (longitude and latitude) so that the game ties them to loose geographical boundaries given to each subleague. It was disfunctional because the game asks for 4 boundaries per league, yet countries are rarely rectangular; moreover, half of the cities in their db came without coordinates;

2. by having database fields for each team listing in what league it should be relegated at each level of the game (for instance, level 2: II.Divisioona, level 3: III.Divisioona South Finland group, level IV: IV.Divisioona Helsinki group, etc.). That (older) system had a better success rate, though not perfect.

Despite having one or even both systems going on at once, our Helsinki team might still very well end up in the Lapland group if, for instance, the three other relegated teams are based in Naantali, Joensuu and Vaasa - since no Lapland team is relegated, and one is promoted, the game has to pick a team to fill the gap left in the Lapland group to keep an even number of teams from season to season, and it just doesn't necessarily pick the most logical one. Instead of sending Naantali to West Finland and Vaasa to Lapland, the game tends to either pick one of the two teams relegating at the same place randomly and use it to fill the Lapland gap or either just send every team in the wrong group.

So that pretty much sums up the problems with the FM way of dealing with the matter. The exemple above seems like a special case, but it's a pretty frequent one actually. In real life, league structures are adapted, but FM shows zero plasticity in this regards.

- YZG

[jatahati]

It's an evergoing cause of displeasure on the FM forums because their systems never correctly handle demotion to specific lower leagues.

- YZG

Can you throw bit more info on this? By demoting do you mean demoting with data editor or after relegation? And what kind of issues does this bring?

After relegation during the game. With lower leagues, usually, levels are subdivided into several geographical groups or sub-leagues. Obviously, for realism sake, people want to have teams be relegated to the correct group - and the problem lies there, often teams just go to the wrong group for various reasons, ranging from special case to disfunctionment of the implemented system(s). For instance, let's suppose in a fictious league I have a team from Helsinki finishing dead last of some II.Divisioona, thus being relegated to the III.Divisioona. However, the III.Divisioona is itself subdivided into four regional groups: South Finland, West Finland, East Finland and Lapland. You'll of course want the Helsinki team to be relegated in South Finland.

FM has tried to make it so in two different ways to my knowledge:

1. by giving each city coordinates (longitude and latitude) so that the game ties them to loose geographical boundaries given to each subleague. It was disfunctional because the game asks for 4 boundaries per league, yet countries are rarely rectangular; moreover, half of the cities in their db came without coordinates;

2. by having database fields for each team listing in what league it should be relegated at each level of the game (for instance, level 2: II.Divisioona, level 3: III.Divisioona South Finland group, level IV: IV.Divisioona Helsinki group, etc.). That (older) system had a better success rate, though not perfect.

Despite having one or even both systems going on at once, our Helsinki team might still very well end up in the Lapland group if, for instance, the three other relegated teams are based in Naantali, Joensuu and Vaasa - since no Lapland team is relegated, and one is promoted, the game has to pick a team to fill the gap left in the Lapland group to keep an even number of teams from season to season, and it just doesn't necessarily pick the most logical one. Instead of sending Naantali to West Finland and Vaasa to Lapland, the game tends to either pick one of the two teams relegating at the same place randomly and use it to fill the Lapland gap or either just send every team in the wrong group.

So that pretty much sums up the problems with the FM way of dealing with the matter. The exemple above seems like a special case, but it's a pretty frequent one actually. In real life, league structures are adapted, but FM shows zero plasticity in this regards.

- YZG

Now I see your point. At first thought it sounds really complicated to find a one really good solution. Have to put this on task list and try to find something here, but probable not thing that will implemented on early versions (in any good way). If you have good suggestions here it would be really nice.

[Animal]

European junior leagues are also something that needs improving. I really enjoy playing EHM with European club but poorly implemented junior leagues make me mad. I think the best way to do it was if those leagues were active but non-playable. I mean, the game would simulate the league matches and injuries, regular season and playoffs and everything but you couldn't play it as a GM. In Europe junior teams belong to the same organization as their elite league team so if you're a GM of Jokerit Helsinki you're obviously also in charge of Jokerit Helsinki Jrs.

Some ideas for European leagues:

-You could hire/fire your junior team staff.

-Weekly meeting with junior team coach where you could give orders about next weeks games, practice etc. E.g.

"I want #45 K.Koivu practice shooting"

"Let #20 O.Glad play as a starting goalie"