ESPN TBL Fantasy Hockey 2009/10

[batdad]

It was not Rask who did me in. It was Backstrom. That misconduct. Blech.

[batdad]

Caerphilly eliminated from playoffs 1st. Only 2 guys can catch me for first and I have to lose all 3 games to be beaten out (if tiebreakers are head to head), and The Mustangs are the only team that could beat me outright, by winning all 3 while I lose all 3.

Also..

BlackIce, Mustangs, Karlstad, Corinthians, Lake Alajarvi, and Vasteras have all clinched playoff spots. Only 2 spots left up for grabs

Boston and Kent will be eliminated with 1 more loss or 1 more win for both Chilliwack and Marsac. Also need Chicago to lose 2, and hope for tie breakers.

Chicago out with 2 more losses or 1 win and 1 loss for them and 1 win 1 loss for both Chilli and Marsac. Also need to be sure Bruins do not pass them.

Phaneuf---the tie could help or kill. Lose 2 and need lots of help in getting in. Lose 1 and need Philly, Chilli, and Marsac to lose 2 of 3.

Philly--Need to go 2-1 while one of Chilli and Marsac go at best 1-2.

[Marsac]

Nice breakdown, sadly the Vikings seem to be crushing me after just one night of games.

[Lidas]

Nice breakdown, sadly the Vikings seem to be crushing me after just one night of games.

Don't worry, it has only just begun.

My last matchup was horrible. Ovechkin scored more goals than all my players combined

[batdad]

Oh I know..Backstrom beat me all by himself.

[getzlaf15]

Hmmm... Is Joni Pitkanen really worth being a keeper...

[B. Stinson]

Offseason Schedule:

15-21 March
... Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy Candidates released, Voting begins
... Minstrel Memorial Cup Playoffs, Round 1
... Relegation League, Games 1, 2, and 3

22-28 March
... Minstrel Memorial Cup Playoffs, Round 2
... Consolation Games, 4 losing teams from Playoff Round 1
... Relegation League, Games 4, 5, and 6

29 March - 4 April
... Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy voting ends
... Minstrel Memorial Cup Final
... Consolation Games, all 6 losing teams from Playoffs
... Relegation League, Games 7, 8, and 9

5 April
... TBL Hockey League Awards, Day 1
... ... Presentation of the James Norris Memorial Trophy


6 April
... TBL Hockey League Awards, Day 2
... ... Presentation of the Maurice Richard Trophy


7 April
... TBL Hockey League Awards, Day 3
... ... Presentation of the Art Ross Trophy


8 April
... TBL Hockey League Awards, Day 4
... ... Presentation of the Vezina Trophy


9 April
... TBL Hockey League Awards, Day 5
... ... Presentation of the Calder Trophy


10 April
... TBL Hockey League Awards, Day 6
... ... Presentation of the Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy


11 April
... TBL Hockey League Awards, Day 7
... ... Presentation of the Presidents' Trophy


12 April
... TBL Hockey League Awards, Day 8
... ... Re-presentation of the Minstrel Memorial Cup
... ... Official Relegation League results, 3 teams relegated to League 2
... ... Official Promotion League results, 3 teams promoted to TBL Hockey League

TBD
... Keeper selection deadline

TBD
... Minstrel Hockey League roster expansion to 23 players (4 LW, 4 C, 4 RW, 6 D, 2 G, 3 Bench)

TBD
... 2010 Minstrel Hockey League Fantasy Draft
... 2010 League 2 Inaugural Fantasy Draft

[B. Stinson]

(Brownie points to the first person to find the easter egg in the off-season schedule )


Here's an official question for everyone to think about, and give their opinion on. I've been going one way with this due to ESPN's set-up, but I realized we really don't have to follow this set-up in our case. So the question is:

How should relegation be administered?

Method #1: Original pre-season idea. Bottom 3 teams in the standings at the end of the regular season are relegated. This method will ignore ESPN's "non-playoff-team" bracket, and any team not making the playoffs (teams 9 through 14) will essentially be done playing at the end of the regular season, with the bottom 3 being relegated for next year. Teams 9 through 14 will still be playing in the bracket, but it just won't have any bearing on our league. The advantage of this is that teams 9 through 11 won't be in danger of relegation. The disadvantage is that all non-playoff teams won't be playing for anything after the season is over.

Method #2: We utilize ESPN's "non-playoff-team" bracket by creating an offline Relegation League. In this league will be all teams who don't make the playoffs (teams 9 through 14). At the end of the Relegation League, the three teams at the top of these standings will be saved from relegation, while the bottom three will be our three relegated teams. The advantage to this is that all teams in our league will be playing for something after the regular season ends. The disadvantage is that this puts teams 9 through 11 in danger of being relegated.


Personally, I'm in favour of method 2, because it gives everyone in the league something to play for even when they don't make the playoffs.

[eric1985]

I'd go with method #2 for the same reason, it would be nice for the outcome to get right down to the wire.

[Manimal]

#2 sounds more fun for you guys at the bottom!

[batdad]

Definitely #2.

And I am in favor of doing something for next season. I would help run it, or run it. We set up a 2nd league (the relegated guys) with however many we have.

The key to this league is they are not allowed to draft any of the keepers that are set in the top league. They can double up on any other player that is not kept in our league for that season, and work their way up to the next season with duplicate players from our league or however they choose. Still the same number of players per team in league 2.

Then they keep anyone they want from their roster for the next season coming, and advance to league 1 should they be at the top of league 2. League one guys would be allowed to set their keepers first and league 2 would only be allowed keeper players that league 1 guys have not claimed as theirs.

For example....Joe Pavelski. I am not keeping him.. a 2nd team league could also have him play for them in season 2, and he could be redrafted into league 1 as well for season 2. SHould noone from league 1 select him as a keeper in season 2, then a 2nd league team who is getting promoted to league 1 would be able to have him as a keeper, and in year 3 he would not be eligible for the draft in either league.

Can anyone follow that?

[Manimal]

Can anyone follow that?

Sure. Good of you thinking ahead.

[bruins72]

I like option #2 as well (especially since I'm in the bottom 3!). Batdad's 2nd league idea sounds interesting as well.

[B. Stinson]

As for adding another league for next year: I agree. In fact, that was the original intent with this league - make two, and promote relegate teams between them. But during planning, we didn't really know enough about how it would work-out, so we stuck to the one. But, yeah, adding another league somehow is one of my main thoughts.

Although, I'm not sure I follow your idea. Would you mind running through that again?

[batdad]

Ideas for 2nd division (league)

1. They cannot select any protected (keeper) players from the top league. Division 1 keepers are not allowed to be drafted in league 2 draft.
2. The 2nd league has the draft--all players save the keepers from league 1 are eligible.
3. The 2nd league has 3 teams promoted to top league for year 3. The first league relegates 3 teams from top league to league 2.
4. The 2nd league teams that are promoted can keep 6 guys off their roster that are not keepers of the teams in top league for year 3.
5. The relegated teams can keep their 6 players going into league 2.
6. All teams in league 2 that do not get promoted to league 1 get their keepers as well...but the relegated teams get priority on keepers (IE if I am relegated I get my keepers first, and the teams in 2nd league that I am dropping to, CANNOT have the same keepers)
7. The only ineligible players in league 2 are the keepers of league 1.

See how it works now?

[bruins72]

I was just thinking, a good way to make those keepers from league 1 unavailable in league 2 would be to add a few dummy teams to league 2 and put those league 1 keepers on those teams and just don't dress them. This will put all of the dummy teams at the bottom of the league standings and then we can figure out the rest from there.

[batdad]

That is a good idea B72.

[B. Stinson]

Yeah, I think I see what you're saying. And I think that may work.

With the way the priorities would work-out, all the Year 2 League 1 teams (remaining and to-be-relegated) would be submitting their keepers first, followed by all Year 2 League 2 teams (remaining and to-be-promoted). So, we would simply have all Year 2 League 1 teams submit their keepers a few days earlier than the official selection deadline. Then, all Year 2 League 2 teams submit their keepers, excluding anyone selected by a Year 2 League 1 team. Then, Year 2 League 1 relegation teams carry their keepers down for Year 3 League 2, while Year 2 League 2 teams carry theirs up for Year 3 League 1. Then finally, both leagues draft independently like any normal keeper-draft to fill-out their rosters (while still not being allowed to pick a player who's been restricted by a higher priority team).

Again, I think this will work. Very clever thinking, batdad!

I'm going to run some simulations to see exactly how it plays out.

[getzlaf15]

Are we changing any scoring categories for next year?

[B. Stinson]

Are we changing any scoring categories for next year?

That's what the current plan calls for.

I got a little feedback a little while back on this subject, but nothing is final yet. So far, I'm thinking of these categories for next year:

G, A, +/-, PIM, PPG, PPA, SHG, SHA, GWG, BLK, SOG | MIN, W, GA*, SV

What changed? : Added Short-Handed Assists, Power-Play Assists, Blocked Shots, Minutes (goalie), eliminated Shut-outs (goalie).

Although, I would definitely like some more opinions on goalie categories. I know batdad was saying a while back that goalies have a little too much claim in our teams, despite being a small portion, which I think is a very good point.

-------
ESPN has these categories available for goalies:

Games Played, Wins, Losses*, Shots Against, Goals Against, Empty Net Goals Against*, Saves, Shutouts, Minutes, OT Losses, GAA, Save Percentage, Goalie Winning Percentage
-------

I'd also like to address the first-game-shutout issue. I think the main cause of this problem is the averages, and the "lower-is-better" stats. Considering all stats start at 0, all you need is one great game and you're done for the week with that stat- you have your unbeatable low.

One solution would be to replace these types of stats. For example, replace SV% with Saves. Replace GAA with Goals Against (this would be a "lower-is-better" stat, but with the rest replaced, it wouldn't be much of an advantage all by itself). Then we could also add a link to goalies playing games, like Minutes, so you have one more category that can only be won by playing your goalies. Lastly, to keep goalie scoring thin, eliminate Shut-Outs (to me, they seem to be a fairly boring stat like Short-handed Goals )

And don't forget the possibility of roster expansion. Andyjayp brought up the possibility of adding another line to our rosters, and it seemed to be a well-liked idea. I'm pretty sure we'll be doing that for 2010.

[Lidas]

Are we changing any scoring categories for next year?

That's what the current plan calls for.

I got a little feedback a little while back on this subject, but nothing is final yet. So far, I'm thinking of these categories for next year:

G, A, +/-, PIM, PPG, PPA, SHG, SHA, GWG, BLK, SOG | MIN, W, GA*, SV

What changed? : Added Short-Handed Assists, Power-Play Assists, Blocked Shots, Minutes (goalie), eliminated Shut-outs (goalie).

Although, I would definitely like some more opinions on goalie categories. I know batdad was saying a while back that goalies have a little too much claim in our teams, despite being a small portion, which I think is a very good point.

-------
ESPN has these categories available for goalies:

Games Played, Wins, Losses*, Shots Against, Goals Against, Empty Net Goals Against*, Saves, Shutouts, Minutes, OT Losses, GAA, Save Percentage, Goalie Winning Percentage
-------

I'd also like to address the first-game-shutout issue. I think the main cause of this problem is the averages, and the "lower-is-better" stats. Considering all stats start at 0, all you need is one great game and you're done for the week with that stat- you have your unbeatable low.

One solution would be to replace these types of stats. For example, replace SV% with Saves. Replace GAA with Goals Against (this would be a "lower-is-better" stat, but with the rest replaced, it wouldn't be much of an advantage all by itself). Then we could also add a link to goalies playing games, like Minutes, so you have one more category that can only be won by playing your goalies. Lastly, to keep goalie scoring thin, eliminate Shut-Outs (to me, they seem to be a fairly boring stat like Short-handed Goals )

And don't forget the possibility of roster expansion. Andyjayp brought up the possibility of adding another line to our rosters, and it seemed to be a well-liked idea. I'm pretty sure we'll be doing that for 2010.

I believe it was me who suggested the expansion to two lines

I would think it would be more fun to have a bigger roster. Maybe 3 lines instead of 2?

I also suggested some changes for categories, to put less focus on the goalies and more focus on defensemen.

As it is now, I feel that goalies are a bit overpowered with 1/3 of the categories, but only have 2/17 spots (although they have about 3 times as much ice times as other players.) If we want to keep 12 scoring categories I suggest:

G - Goals
A - Assists
+/- - Plus/minus
PIM - Penalty Minutes
PPG - Power Play Goals
SHG - Short Handed Goals
SOG - Shots on goal
ATOI - Average Time on Ice
BLK - Blocked Shots
GAA - Goals Against Average
SV% - Save Percentage
W - Wins or SO - Shutouts (Not sure which one is best. Wins is more of a team effort, and Shutout are quite rare)

if we boost it up to 15 categories I suggest

G - Goals
A - Assists
+/- - Plus/minus
PIM - Penalty Minutes
PPG - Power Play Goals
PPA - Power Play Assists
SHG - Short Handed Goals
GWG - Game-Winning Goals
SOG - Shots on goal
ATOI - Average Time on Ice
BLK - Blocked Shots
GAA - Goals Against Average
SV% - Save Percentage
W - Wins
SO - Shutouts

[getzlaf15]

With the goalie categories you have selected there, it's basically, "the team who has the most goalies playing that week wins." If we could have it so each teams had the same amount of goalies playing, then it would be even. For example,

Steve Mason plays 3 games compared to Jimmy Howard who plays 2 games that week.

Steve Mason is 99 times out of 100 going to have more Minutes played (unless he get's yanked twice), and he's going to have more Saves as he has played 1 full game more than Howard. On the other hand, you'd expect Jimmy Howard to have less GA as he has played less games...

If there was a way of saying, each team must dress at least 3 goalies that week. We could keep it as it is and it would be a much fairer analysis of a team.

Hope that makes sense.

[batdad]

Goalies--No not the team with the most playing, only in wins alot of the time (Trust me it happens to me all the time. Goalies should have no more than three categories. Drop save percentage and Shutouts. I am thinking (Wins-GAA-Saves). Stay away from minutes played (Brodeur, Luongo win it every week). Goalies are only 1/5 of our roster--at best should be 1/5 of stats.

add in Power play assists, change SH goals to SH points (do not make it shg and sha--that is two categories where we get a 1 and win it every week. THat makes the leauge silly honestly--a fluke is diff between win and loss. Same IMHO for shutouts--without those two categories I would have lost 4 more games this season and just with a 1 in each I won) .Add blocked shots.

Adding in an extra line is a good idea--My thought though is we let division 2 pick there guys first and division one guys pick after them (and cannot duplicate). Just makes div 2 a little better and gives em more keeper possibilities for future.

To summarize my stats would be

Goals-Assists-Plus minus-PIM-Shots-PPG-PPA-SH Points-Blocks-Game winning goals-Wins-Goals against average-Saves. Also could add in save percentage to make balance between quantity of starts and quality of starts, without having someone get 1 shutout and win.

And we are absolutely going to have to internally force a rule(even though ESPN does not) that we must dress a certain # of goalies each week, unless there is an injury issue, or coach of NHL team benches the goalie. Must still put him in spot to play the game...in case he does get in for a spell.

IE: AT ALL TIMES MUST ATTEMPT TO DRESS GOALIES FOR AT LEAST 4 GAMES PER WEEK. (or three number is irrelevant). Punishment for offense is not being allowed to dress players for a couple days of your next game, repeated issue..lose the team and someone new gets it)

[B. Stinson]

I did some searching this morning, and found that ESPN in fact has a thing for feedback (I couldn't find one before). So, I sent them a suggestion about the goalies starts issue.

It might be good if you guys sent a suggestion as well, to increase the chances of them considering it. Obviously you don't have to, but it could help with numbers.

To do so, fill-out This Form.

batdad, I see what you mean with the SHG and SHA - they're still boring stats as we discussed earlier about SHG. Using SHP would be better.

EDIT: I got a chance to lay-out you second league idea, batdad, and it looks like it should work. I didn't get it laid-out 100% 'cause I eventually got loss doing it manually in a spreadsheet, but the important part is that I didn't see any problems with the actual mechanics of the idea. It should be a simple matter of League 2 teams making sure they don't draft or "keep" any of the 84 keepers in league 1 for that year.

However, I don't believe we'll be able to start using this idea right-away. The reason is that our draft coming up for League 1 will be a partial draft, and the new League 2 will of course has to be a full draft. What we'll do is simply have League 1 function as it has always been planned, with three GMs dropping down, and three new players taking their teams. Everyone in League 1 will then select their 6 keepers. The draft will come before next year, and they'll draft as usual to finish their rosters. Then, League 2 will have their full draft, with the restriction being that they cannot draft any of the 84 players who have been kept in League 1. The way I plan to enforce this is, I'll post a list of the 84 players who League 2 cannot draft. If a team drafts a restricted player, he will simply be removed from that roster after the draft. The penalty here being that that team will have essentially wasted a pick on someone they can't have, and will have to sign a free agent to fill the spot.


Also, I've been thinking about the roster expansion, and noticed that by adding a line, we will be going from 17 total players to 22. A regulation NHL roster is 23. Do you guys want to simply add one more spot, and use regulation NHL roster sizes: 23 players; 4 LW, 4 C, 4 RW, 6 D, 2 G (max. 3), and 3 bench? Of course, the thing to consider is that deep rosters means that our 3rd and 4th lines won't necessarily be "fantasy" players tearing up the highlight reel like typical fantasy rosters.

[batdad]

I am fine with whatever we do on the roster size. Does ESPN limit the number of players you can have in any way...including the bench? Because if we can get to 23 and have full teams that would be cool. Some of the non fantasy players are indeed fantasy in that the blocked shots and PIMs may be the way to go with them.

Glad to hear the idea will work for league 2.

I have sent my comment