The Official Olympics Hockey Thread

Post by **batdad** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:00 pm

Oh I know Trevor was good in that game. Just not sure he should have been there ahead of some others. Superstars can play in a role. They just can..and usually they are better than pluggers at that role. No one can tell me Mark Messier could not kill penalties better than Rob Zamuner.

IceTimer · Post by **IceTimer** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:12 pm

batdad wrote:Nope. Most likely (And it has been said by Babcock) as it has been in the past...the pairs will get balanced ice time. I mean how do you give 1 of those 7 (especially in Canada) more ice than another. You just can't. They are all equally good at virtually all aspects of the game. Plus...you want em healthy. 25-30 minutes over an extended period of time...injury.

As for your first two points--from what you wrote it sure sounded like you criticizing Swede D play, but I will take you that you were not.

After I wrote--I went back reread and saw you apologized for your MagJo errors. Still was going to point out what I saw anyway. No big deal, unless you want it to be.

Sweden and Finland definitely fall into politics arguement. They always have. They try and boost up their leagues as well. Pronger--Basically a political decision at the top in the idea of vet vs younger kid. (Bouwmeester). And yeah, I do not think Pronger should be on the team. Mike Green is better, Bouwmeester is better....Pronger is a mistake, even more so than the little kid in Doughty. Do not get me wrong Doughty is outstanding--but at 19 should not be there. We have made that mistake as a country before too.

Gabby injured? darn.

Oh and any time you have a person in charge of running a team like a national team, who uses words like "knows the system" or "Loyal" or "chemistry" ..you have a person justifying taking a weaker player over a stronger one. This can only be for one reason: POLITICS. BEcause no coach in his right mind would take a weaker player over a stronger one. Not one. So in the case of Sweden, Russia, Finland, etc...this has happened and continues to. It has happened in Canada too (Zamuner, and to some extent Linden in Nagano)

1) Not true, some of the D-men on Canada are better than others at different aspects, plus according to you Pronger isn't even good enough anyway, so they are all better than him right.

2) Well then I guess you need to bone up on your reading comprehension.

3) Why were you going to point out what you saw anyway, you just like to be like that?

4) That's just your kind of weird opinion of why Pronger is on the team, he is better than Bouwmeester, and so is Doughty, Green is too much of a defensive problem.

5) Man, you are way off base about chemistry and politics, in Torino did Canada bring players that already had chemistry, No.

Post by **batdad** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:31 pm

1. They may be better at some things. I guarantee you Niedermeyer will not play 25 minutes per game, neither will Pronger, Keith, Seabrook...there is just not as much of a difference between #1 and #7 on this team as there is on their NHL teams. No way no how. Minutes will be much more evenly distributed. Maybe in the medal games they load the two hottest guys...but even then only 23.

2. Nah--I know what you mean, you mean to try and argue with everyone...so why don't you just say it...Take it to PM pal.
3. Why not? Someone does not do reserach and does not know what he is talking about...good thing to point it out ... you seem to try. again take it to pm now.

4. Pronger is too slow. And he takes dumb penalties. Has in every Olympics/World Cup he plays in too.

5. Nope. Not way off. There is enough chemistry between stars when you put them on the ice together. They want to be there and they are better than others. You can already see they have dealt enough with it.. Ovechkin and Datsyuk will be fine together. You do not need to have a 4th liner play with guys just because they played together before. you need the best players. They find a way to gel. That is if they are the best players.

And in Torino--Canada just sucked. And yes they did...they tried to bring in the guys that had done it for them before because of their "Chemistry" in Salt Lake...They have admitted that all along. SOme of them should not have been there at all. Bertuzzi for example. Again..do the research. How much did Sidney play in that tournament? wait right...best player...but did not play. And Staal? wait...right.

Prowl · Post by **Prowl** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:35 pm

Tonight should be a great game lol. I expect Norway to attempt to put all 5 guys in their end. 4-1 Canadians

Post by **batdad** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:56 pm

Here we go! 5 minutes away. USA-Switzerland. Then Canada-Norway, then Russia-Latvia!!

YAY!

Post by **philou21** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:59 pm

Prowl wrote:Tonight should be a great game lol. I expect Norway to attempt to put all 5 guys in their end. 4-1 Canadians

Just that? I would prefer a 10-0 or something like that.

Post by **getzlaf15** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:30 pm

batdad wrote:Here we go! 5 minutes away. USA-Switzerland. Then Canada-Norway, then Russia-Latvia!!

YAY!

What a night this intends to be. Russia and Latvia i think will be a little late for me though.

Prowl's being modest. He knows that Canada will run over Norway.

USA and the Swiss is a good game so far. USA leading 3-0 after two, but seem to be dominating the Swiss.

IceTimer · Post by **IceTimer** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:50 pm

batdad wrote:1. They may be better at some things. I guarantee you Niedermeyer will not play 25 minutes per game, neither will Pronger, Keith, Seabrook...there is just not as much of a difference between #1 and #7 on this team as there is on their NHL teams. No way no how. Minutes will be much more evenly distributed. Maybe in the medal games they load the two hottest guys...but even then only 23.

2. Nah--I know what you mean, you mean to try and argue with everyone...so why don't you just say it...Take it to PM pal.
3. Why not? Someone does not do reserach and does not know what he is talking about...good thing to point it out ... you seem to try. again take it to pm now.

4. Pronger is too slow. And he takes dumb penalties. Has in every Olympics/World Cup he plays in too.

5. Nope. Not way off. There is enough chemistry between stars when you put them on the ice together. They want to be there and they are better than others. You can already see they have dealt enough with it.. Ovechkin and Datsyuk will be fine together. You do not need to have a 4th liner play with guys just because they played together before. you need the best players. They find a way to gel. That is if they are the best players.

And in Torino--Canada just sucked. And yes they did...they tried to bring in the guys that had done it for them before because of their "Chemistry" in Salt Lake...They have admitted that all along. SOme of them should not have been there at all. Bertuzzi for example. Again..do the research. How much did Sidney play in that tournament? wait right...best player...but did not play. And Staal? wait...right.

1) Man, what is your deal, you think I wan't to argue, you're the one who wants to argue with me in PM.

2) Pronger is better than Green and Boumeester because he comes up big in the big games, Green and Bou are chokers, Green wasn't near the player he was in last years playoffs as he was in the regular season, and Bou's only pro big game experience came in the AHL where he couldn't even get a point there no less.

3) The way you talk about chemistry makes it sould like you think it's overrated, like you would rather have a team of individuals, than a team that plays well together.

Post by **philou21** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:52 pm

Green was at his first playoff appearance, you can't tell that so quickly. I just think that Yzerman wants more leadership and experience, because Green is better than Pronger, but doesn't have as much experience as him.

IceTimer · Post by **IceTimer** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:01 pm

philou21 wrote:Green was at his first playoff appearance, you can't tell that so quickly. I just think that Yzerman wants more leadership and experience, because Green is better than Pronger, but doesn't have as much experience as him.

Actually it was his 2nd NHL playoffs, and 4th pro.

Post by **philou21** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:04 pm

Oh alright, 7 games doesn't change anything to me. I just see one playoff in the AHL though, but i don't think we can compare NHL playoffs against AHL playoffs.

IceTimer · Post by **IceTimer** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:07 pm

philou21 wrote:Oh alright, 7 games doesn't change anything to me. I just see one playoff in the AHL though, but i don't think we can compare NHL playoffs against AHL playoffs.

Why doesn't a 7 game NHL series change anything to you?

And of course the AHL and NHL playoffs can't be compared, but they are both at least pro.

Post by **philou21** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:09 pm

In 7 games you gain experience yes, but i don't think it change anything of what i was saying before, he still don't have much experience.

Post by **Danny** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:14 pm

Green has no business being on Team Canada. He's mediocre in his own end. You can't just hide him from going against the top line in the Olympics, unlike in the NHL. Because vs Russia or Sweden the 3rd or 4th line might be as good as the average first line on an NHL team.

Círyatan · Post by **Círyatan** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:28 pm

Danny wrote:Green has no business being on Team Canada. He's mediocre in his own end. You can't just hide him from going against the top line in the Olympics, unlike in the NHL. Because vs Russia or Sweden the 3rd or 4th line might be as good as the average first line on an NHL team.

I'm with you on Green, Danny. While he's terrific in front, his defensive play is another story. Boyle brings that offensive quality at a smaller risk. In fact, the only defenseman I was surprised not to see on Team Canada's roster is Bouwmeester. You might argue that he lacks the necessary big-game experience, but he's still one of the best defensemen in the league, and he's been playing consistently this season. Doughty's excellent, but is he a better option? Time will tell, I guess.

Post by **Danny** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:33 pm

Well Doughty is indeed excellent and age should not prevent a player from being nominated. Can't comment on JayBo to be honest, don't watch enough Western games. But I'm not surprised about any nomination for Team Canada, every player who's in there is worthy of being there. Even Puck Fronger

IceTimer · Post by **IceTimer** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:33 pm

Círyatan wrote:
Danny wrote:Green has no business being on Team Canada. He's mediocre in his own end. You can't just hide him from going against the top line in the Olympics, unlike in the NHL. Because vs Russia or Sweden the 3rd or 4th line might be as good as the average first line on an NHL team.
I'm with you on Green, Danny. While he's terrific in front, his defensive play is another story. Boyle brings that offensive quality at a smaller risk. In fact, the only defenseman I was surprised not to see on Team Canada's roster is Bouwmeester. You might argue that he lacks the necessary big-game experience, but he's still one of the best defensemen in the league, and he's been playing consistently this season. Doughty's excellent, but is he a better option? Time will tell, I guess.

Agreed about Green.

Doughty also brings very nice offense with him, better than Bou's.

Post by **batdad** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:57 pm

I was NOT saying Green should be on Team Canada. I was saying Pronger should not be on Team Canada ahead of Green. He is a slow, useless egomaniac. And for those who talk about chemistry to be lauding Chris Pronger...BWAH HA HA HA. Slow slow slow.
Everywhere he goes he is an issue. Doughty is a 19 year old kid with a ton of upside. No question. Should he be on the team? I think there are at least 5 dmen with more experience who are as good as him. I would rather have that...but not Pronger over him. Nor Phaneuf. Bouwmeester for sure. Not Green. I have only an issue really with PRONGER.

But for those who talk about EXPERIENCE...do you really want Doughty on the ice in the last 10 or 20 minutes of a close game? I don't. Nor do I want Pronger or Green. But Bouwmeester over them...yes...no question. I hate Pronger. I will always hate Pronger and I think he is one of if not the most overrated hockey players in the world. Is he a bad hockey player...no. But he is not good either. Just average and makes tons of mistakes at bad times because he is slow. Both skating wise and brain wise. God I would almost (not quite) have Phaneuf out there over him.

What I do not get is the media here is saying Canada is not dressing Toews and Doughty tonight, along with Fleury. Yet the Americans dressed and played their 13 forwards and 7 dmen. I am confused....

And yeah...a team of individuals because you know....guys like Bouwmeester, St Louis, Doan are just so selfish. Same with the top end players...they never work together.There is a huge difference between a selfish player like Dion Phaneuf and a top level individual like Niedermeyer in the past. They are both great individual hockey players AND team players.
How you can even think I would want "selfish individual players is the same as saying I want the BEST and most TALENTED players shows you have no clue what I am talking about.

Post by **Danny** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:17 am

batdad wrote:I was NOT saying Green should be on Team Canada. I was saying Pronger should not be on Team Canada ahead of Green. He is a slow, useless egomaniac. And for those who talk about chemistry to be lauding Chris Pronger...BWAH HA HA HA. Slow slow slow.

haha if you're referring to me...I didn't even know who said what...just saw Green/Team Canada in the same post and alarm bells rang

Post by **batdad** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:23 am

Not referring to anyone specifically. Just stating that Green would be on my list before a moron like Pronger. Yeah, I hate Pronger .So what? Guy is a dufus.

Post by **philou21** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:24 am

Yes Pronger is a dumb a**. I will be glad when he retire.

Post by **visualdarkness** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:15 am

Norway is playing better than I expected and Grotnes has been a monster in net. Canada sometimes fumbles with the puck and showing signs of frustration in a not so impressive manner, but I expect the goals to come in the second period due to the different level of talent on the teams.

However, can't help to be impressed when a low-ranked team like Norway goes out and fore-check for the win.

Post by **visualdarkness** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:16 am

<---- Edmonton Fan = Anti-Pronger

DJP19 · Post by **DJP19** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:19 am

I agree with the whole pronger sucks and strongly beleive Mike Green should be on Canada's roster. Maybe they would be able to score a goal on Norway with him 0-0 through first period.

IceTimer · Post by **IceTimer** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:19 am

batdad wrote:I was NOT saying Green should be on Team Canada. I was saying Pronger should not be on Team Canada ahead of Green. He is a slow, useless egomaniac. And for those who talk about chemistry to be lauding Chris Pronger...BWAH HA HA HA. Slow slow slow.
Everywhere he goes he is an issue. Doughty is a 19 year old kid with a ton of upside. No question. Should he be on the team? I think there are at least 5 dmen with more experience who are as good as him. I would rather have that...but not Pronger over him. Nor Phaneuf. Bouwmeester for sure. Not Green. I have only an issue really with PRONGER.

But for those who talk about EXPERIENCE...do you really want Doughty on the ice in the last 10 or 20 minutes of a close game? I don't. Nor do I want Pronger or Green. But Bouwmeester over them...yes...no question. I hate Pronger. I will always hate Pronger and I think he is one of if not the most overrated hockey players in the world. Is he a bad hockey player...no. But he is not good either. Just average and makes tons of mistakes at bad times because he is slow. Both skating wise and brain wise. God I would almost (not quite) have Phaneuf out there over him.

What I do not get is the media here is saying Canada is not dressing Toews and Doughty tonight, along with Fleury. Yet the Americans dressed and played their 13 forwards and 7 dmen. I am confused....

And yeah...a team of individuals because you know....guys like Bouwmeester, St Louis, Doan are just so selfish. Same with the top end players...they never work together.There is a huge difference between a selfish player like Dion Phaneuf and a top level individual like Niedermeyer in the past. They are both great individual hockey players AND team players.
How you can even think I would want "selfish individual players is the same as saying I want the BEST and most TALENTED players shows you have no clue what I am talking about.

No, you kind of missed my point, my point was the players that you want on the team might not make the team better because they have less chemistry.