Calculating CA

[vince2260]

I just want to know wat sheet u guys use to calculate the CA of a player. Like if i use the pregame editor to change some attributes for a particular player...how can i calculate his CA? Thx!

[Lazion]

Personally I don't use any calculating. Players use to vary much.. let's say that one is good at scoring and other is good as enforcer. And if we start to calculate CA of good enforcer with lacking scoring abilities we get medicore AHL'er.

Usually I stick in this when talking about NHL.. depending team.
160-200 CA 1st liner
140-170 CA 2nd liner
120-150 CA 3rd liner
95-120 CA 4th liner

Another thing what I follow is this
CA AVR MIN MAX
10 4,5 1,0 10,5
20 5,0 1,0 11,0
30 5,5 1,0 11,5
40 6,0 1,0 12,0
50 6,5 1,0 12,5
60 6,0 1,0 13,0
70 7,5 1,5 13,5
80 8,0 2,0 14,0
90 8,5 2,5 14,5
100 9,0 3,0 15,0
110 9,5 3,5 15,5
120 10,0 4,0 16,0
130 10,5 4,5 16,5
140 11,0 5,0 17,0
150 11,5 5,5 17,5
160 12,0 6,0 18,0
170 12,5 6,5 18,5
180 13,0 7,0 19,0
190 13,5 7,5 19,5
200 14,0 8,0 20,0

But there are some variables. Let say that player CA is 100 and he owns hard shot, then I can except from quideline what comes to max attribute and vice versa.
That's hard work to adjust player abilitys right.
Of course you can use reputation to balance things, but IMO reputation will change fast in game.

I think that Lidas have used Shadd's sheet to calculate CA's. Don't know where that can download.

[vince2260]

Thx for the answer. I will try to find this shadsheet. The thing is that i want to adjust some players abilities but im never sure of the good CA after i made some changes.

[getzlaf15]

Current ability is determined by finding the average number of all the players attributes and then timesing the number by ten.

For example:

Acceleration: 10
Speed: 14
Balance: 7

Total: 21 divided by 3 = 7 x 10 = 70 Current ability.

[vince2260]

alright cool. So just 1 last question...is there some abilities that dont affect the CA?

[bruins72]

Current ability is determined by finding the average number of all the players attributes and then timesing the number by ten.

For example:

Acceleration: 10
Speed: 14
Balance: 7

Total: 21 divided by 3 = 7 x 10 = 70 Current ability.

Really? I didn't know this. That makes a lot of sense. I'm thinking we can apply this to when we change the CA for players when they're re-rating them for the Lidas updates. Great info!

alright cool. So just 1 last question...is there some abilities that dont affect the CA?

That's a good question. Are hidden attributes taken into account?

[Lazion]

Current ability is determined by finding the average number of all the players attributes and then timesing the number by ten.

For example:

Acceleration: 10
Speed: 14
Balance: 7

Total: 21 divided by 3 = 7 x 10 = 70 Current ability.

So I tested that calculating style creating player with 75 CA and checked how game adjust player attributes if all attr. is at zero. After that changed CA to 85 and after that adjusted player slapshot and wristhot to 20.
That calculating fits pretty good to technical attributes. It usually gives +/- 5 to CA, but not for physical and mental attributes.
I tried to play with numbers and even made some calculations with weight and height.. usually physical attribute average range was +/- 50. I think that there is more complicated formula to calculate CA when using all attributes..

[A9L3E]

alright cool. So just 1 last question...is there some abilities that dont affect the CA?

Injury Proneness, Pass Tendency, All staff attributes, work rate (I think), Consistency, Important Matches, Dirtyness...

I'm not sure about everyone, but that sort of attributes. You can find a GREAT guide where all attributes are explained.

[Lidas]

Current ability is determined by finding the average number of all the players attributes and then timesing the number by ten.

For example:

Acceleration: 10
Speed: 14
Balance: 7

Total: 21 divided by 3 = 7 x 10 = 70 Current ability.

Your math is wrong here - it's (31/3)*10 - which should result in a 100CA player, but your method is correct.
I try to apply the same method (but backwards) when I assign attributes to a player. A player with CA100 should have an avarege stat value of 10, but then there is many factors such as size, positions etc which needs to be taken into consideration. A defenseman gets higher values in checking, positioning, pokecheck etc whereas a forward gets a boost in offensive attributes.

[getzlaf15]

I was just testing you by doing the Maths wrong.

Lidas wins!

[archibalduk]

Current ability is determined by finding the average number of all the players attributes and then timesing the number by ten.

For example:

Acceleration: 10
Speed: 14
Balance: 7

Total: 21 divided by 3 = 7 x 10 = 70 Current ability.

Your math is wrong here - it's (31/3)*10 - which should result in a 100CA player, but your method is correct.
I try to apply the same method (but backwards) when I assign attributes to a player. A player with CA100 should have an avarege stat value of 10, but then there is many factors such as size, positions etc which needs to be taken into consideration. A defenseman gets higher values in checking, positioning, pokecheck etc whereas a forward gets a boost in offensive attributes.

That's very interesting indeed. I had always assumed that CA would be directly related to individual attributes but didn't realise that it was just a straight average. I had thought that, for example, a goaltender with CA 150 would be based on his goaltending attributes whereas a forward with CA 150 would be based on offensive attributes (and to a lesser extent, his defensive attributes).

I think this will be very useful for when I work on my attributes project (see here) after completing the site design. I want to see if I can compare EHM-simulated and real-life stats to alter players' attributes and/or CA so that their stats are closer to what they achieve in real life (if that makes sense!?).

[getzlaf15]

After talking with some online gamers. They informed me that CA is not an average of ALL attributes. It is simply the average of the players Technical attributes...

They also said that CA and PA only relates to a players Technical attirbutes. I'm going to run some tests to see if this is right...

[Lazion]

After talking with some online gamers. They informed me that CA is not an average of ALL attributes. It is simply the average of the players Technical attributes...

They also said that CA and PA only relates to a players Technical attirbutes. I'm going to run some tests to see if this is right...

I already runned some test and get to same point (see above)
As said that there must be some complicated formula to calculate full attribute CA. I will continue my calculations during next week and hopefully I will get some results for that.

[Lidas]

After talking with some online gamers. They informed me that CA is not an average of ALL attributes. It is simply the average of the players Technical attributes...

They also said that CA and PA only relates to a players Technical attirbutes. I'm going to run some tests to see if this is right...

I already runned some test and get to same point (see above)
As said that there must be some complicated formula to calculate full attribute CA. I will continue my calculations during next week and hopefully I will get some results for that.

Sounds interesting, Lazion! Looking forward to seeing your results.

[Lazion]

I taked another quick peek to calculating CA and noticed that in addition of technical attributes also balance, anticipation, creativity and player height&weight is taking effect to CA.
Player weight and height seems to have really big impact to CA, though.

Here's few examples when all player attributes are 20 (200CA):
Height 180cm weight 80kg that makes -50 to CA (150CA)
Height 160cm weight 60kg that makes -70 to CA (130CA) also -2 to technical, balance, anticipation and creativity attributes
Height 160cm weight 100kg that makes -100 to CA (100CA)
Height 200cm weight 60kg that makes -120 to CA (80CA)
Height 200cm weight 100kg that makes -0 to CA (200CA)

I'm too confused to figure out any formula for height and weight. Besides that it looks bit odd that 180cm/80kg player cannot be any better than second liner, even if his attributes are at 20.
I only tested that with power forward, so that might be the reason.
So far calculating forward or dmen CA works like this: technical attr+balance+anticipation+creativity divided by 16 times 10.

[Varlamov]

There are 19 technical attributes, not 16. There are 16 visible on the player screen, but the three hidden ones -- Agitation, Decisions, and Fighting -- still count.

[bruins72]

After talking with some online gamers. They informed me that CA is not an average of ALL attributes. It is simply the average of the players Technical attributes...

They also said that CA and PA only relates to a players Technical attirbutes. I'm going to run some tests to see if this is right...

That kind of makes sense. If mental stats were factored in, players with high mental attributes would have inflated CAs. What about physical stats though? I would think they would factor in somehow.

[archibalduk]

How important is CA really? If a player already has defined technical attributes then how is the CA going to affect this? Would CA not really have any impact unless a player's technical attributes are set to zero (i.e. random)?

I'm too confused to figure out any formula for height and weight. Besides that it looks bit odd that 180cm/80kg player cannot be any better than second liner, even if his attributes are at 20.
I only tested that with power forward, so that might be the reason.

If you have two players with identical attributes but different heights and weights, would they actually perform differently in EHM? Ok they may have different CA ratings based on your research, but if they both have 20 for wrist shot then surely they would be just a good as each other? It just makes me wonder how important CA is if you already have defined attributes.

[getzlaf15]

That kind of makes sense. If mental stats were factored in, players with high mental attributes would have inflated CAs. What about physical stats though? I would think they would factor in somehow.

That was what my initial thought was. Someone with a little more knowledge of regens would be able to tell us more. Do regens get random physicals with an average or something?

How important is CA really? If a player already has defined technical attributes then how is the CA going to affect this? Would CA not really have any impact unless a player's technical attributes are set to zero (i.e. random)?

Exactly right. Unless a player has 0's in his attributes, CA would not mean a thing...

[selne]

So nobody read the attributes guide here? The info on calculation is already there.. http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... php?t=4920
It's pretty much in the end of the guide, just scroll to the chapter called "calculation of attributes"!

[Lazion]

If you have two players with identical attributes but different heights and weights, would they actually perform differently in EHM? Ok they may have different CA ratings based on your research, but if they both have 20 for wrist shot then surely they would be just a good as each other? It just makes me wonder how important CA is if you already have defined attributes.

I have a feeling that CA is taking effect to player performance in different lines.
Let say that player have 130CA and great technical attributes. He can play in 3-4 line with 7.5 average rating. In other in 1-2 lines he can only play with 6.5 avr.. But that might be just my imagination, though.

And what comes to weight/height. I was thinking that player size sets basic value to CA. And from that basic value we can count final CA with other attributes. I'm just quessing. Maybe it's not that hard to count CA what I'm looking for.

Every player gets a certain amount of points to begin with. These points are divided into offensive points and defensive points according to the player's off/def role. A young player with CA = 100, off/def role = 20/10 could have assigned about 210 overall points, with 140 offensive and 70 defensive points to "spend" on his attributes.

That cleared my mind a bit.

[JeffR]

So nobody read the attributes guide here? The info on calculation is already there.. http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... php?t=4920
It's pretty much in the end of the guide, just scroll to the chapter called "calculation of attributes"!

...which has some good information, but unfortunately whoever put it together dropped a lot of context from parts cut out of the researcher's guide (as well as mixing in a few guesses that are off the mark.) One thing specifically: the chart with recommended averages is for technical attributes only. As the original guide explains, I drew it up after Riz made extensive changes in EHM2007 to the CA-attribute relationship to allow for more variation in attributes for high- and low- CA players; the earlier versions of the games tended to make it impossible to give NHL star-caliber players very low ratings in a technical attribute - you could enter the number in the database, but the game would see the big CA and inflate it.

Those changes are also the reason why the old approximations that draw a direct line between CA and attribute totals (e.g., attribute average = CA/10, CA = sum of attributes, etc.) aren't a good idea when working with EHM2007 data. You'll wind up with underrated young players and a glut of overrated stars if you do that (unfortunately, some of the 2007 researchers weren't exactly diligent about paying attention to the new guidelines, so the stock game has tendencies in that direction already.)

Nontechnicals, for the most part, are independent of CA and should use the whole 1-20 range, clustering heavily towards the middle. Some of them (e.g., the skating-related ones) do get adjusted a bit by CA, but not to an extent that's worth worrying about when you're doing the ratings.

Size is cosmetic, no idea why anyone would think it has something to do with CA. It doesn't.

[Lidas]

Size is cosmetic, no idea why anyone would think it has something to do with CA. It doesn't.

It probably doesnt effect CA, but it effects performance for sure. A heavier player hits more, and thus gets a boost to Avg rating. Heavier players are also harder to stop on their way to goal, resulting in more goals scored.

Dunno if height has any effect though.

[JeffR]

Size is cosmetic, no idea why anyone would think it has something to do with CA. It doesn't.

It probably doesnt effect CA, but it effects performance for sure. A heavier player hits more, and thus gets a boost to Avg rating. Heavier players are also harder to stop on their way to goal, resulting in more goals scored.

Dunno if height has any effect though.

Hmm, I was going to say that's wrong, but on checking a save it looks like there is a relationship there, at least with the hits. I don't think that was intended, though, there was never any guidance to the researchers that the size stats had game functions. The hitting and strength attributes should be driving the hit numbers - that's the point of having those attributes in the first place. They seem to have a bit of an effect, but not nearly enough. Wish I had noticed that years ago, it could've been fixed.

At any rate, there's still not going to be a relationship between it and CA. Weight does increase in players, but that's not something that's tied to CA, just a routine that tries to 'grow' younger ones from skinny teens into filled-out adults.

[selne]

So nobody read the attributes guide here? The info on calculation is already there.. http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... php?t=4920
It's pretty much in the end of the guide, just scroll to the chapter called "calculation of attributes"!

...which has some good information, but unfortunately whoever put it together dropped a lot of context from parts cut out of the researcher's guide

1. You are very unprecise, JeffR. What's the researcher's guide?
2. It's been a lot of work to make that guide, i said in the beginning that there were helpers involved (which is simply taking over a few explanations of attributes from the tbn site). But still most of the guide is original content with just very few quotes. Bruins72 asked me if i could do some sort of guide, and he helped me a lot with suggestions to improve its content and the laguage errors.

..as well as mixing in a few guesses that are off the mark.

Why don't you name exactly what's so off the mark. Then we talk about it. We can improve the guide anytime, if you have sugggestions, please share them with us. If you know the code, then i have to tell you, you better take a closer look at it. Because the programmers made the influence of weight too big, though not on porpuse. But they could have corrected it while testing.

.. one thing specifically: the chart with recommended averages is for technical attributes only..
.. Nontechnicals, for the most part, are independent of CA and should use the whole 1-20 range, clustering heavily towards the middle. Some of them (e.g., the skating-related ones) do get adjusted a bit by CA, but not to an extent that's worth worrying about when you're doing the ratings...

It's not only the technical attributes that are influenced by the CA, i mentioned which mental and physical attys are effected by the CA in the guide, too. This is not just guessing off the mark, JeffR.
The quote on CA avarages from Alessandro was put into the guide because it's very easy to understand for newbies about how the game calculates the attys. It's just for the first impression.

..
Those changes are also the reason why the old approximations that draw a direct line between CA and attribute totals (e.g., attribute average = CA/10, CA = sum of attributes, etc.) aren't a good idea when working with EHM2007 data. You'll wind up with underrated young players and a glut of overrated stars if you do that (unfortunately, some of the 2007 researchers weren't exactly diligent about paying attention to the new guidelines, so the stock game has tendencies in that direction already.)

This takes me to the most important part of the guide, which is in the beginning of the calculation attys chapter. The game does not take the current CA to calculate attys, it's the increase of the CA number that effects the attys (given he's trained correctly.) If the CA number increases the attys will follow, no matter how high or low they are currently (again given the player is trained corrently).