NHL Goaltender Ratings, TBL Rosters 2013-14

[nino33]

Greetings!


Below is some data I pulled regarding NHL Goaltenders from version 6.0 of the TBL Rosters.
I've listed the "top 40 NHL Goaltenders by CA" and I've noted PA as well (and I added eight other lower ranked goalies too).

I've also added "Ave G Atts" which is the average of the main 6 goaltender Attributes (1-on-1, Blocker, Glove, Rebound, Recovery and Reflexes).
"Att Ranking" is the ranking by the average of the 6 goaltender attributes (instead of CA)

Please feel free to offer your thoughts/opinions! That's why I prepared/posted the data!


Regards



Top 40 NHL Goaltenders by CA - TBL Rosters 6.0
[table][tr][th]Player[/th][th]Team[/th][th]CA[/th][th]PA[/th][th]Avg G Atts[/th][th]Att Ranking[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Henrik Lundqvist[/td][td]NY Rangers[/td][td]187[/td][th]187[/th][th]19.00[/th][th]1[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Carey Price[/td][td]Montreal Canadiens[/td][td]185[/td][th]185[/th][th]15.83[/th][th]7[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Pekka Rinne[/td][td]Nashville Predators[/td][td]180[/td][th]180[/th][th]18.33[/th][th]2[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Jonathan Quick[/td][td]Los Angeles Kings[/td][td]175[/td][th]185[/th][th]18.17[/th][th]4[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Ryan Miller[/td][td]Buffalo Sabres[/td][td]170[/td][th]170[/th][th]15.67[/th][th]9[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Martin Brodeur[/td][td]New Jersey Devils[/td][td]165[/td][th]165[/th][th]16.17[/th][th]5[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Cory Schneider[/td][td]New Jersey Devils[/td][td]165[/td][th]170[/th][th]15.33[/th][th]12[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Cam Ward[/td][td]Carolina Hurricanes[/td][td]160[/td][th]185[/th][th]15.83[/th][th]8[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Marc-André Fleury[/td][td]Pittsburgh Penguins[/td][td]160[/td][th]175[/th][th]14.50[/th][th]21[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Roberto Luongo[/td][td]Vancouver Canucks[/td][td]160[/td][th]160[/th][th]14.17[/th][th]24[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Tim Thomas[/td][td]Florida Panthers[/td][td]158[/td][th]165[/th][th]18.33[/th][th]3[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Jonas Hiller[/td][td]Anaheim Ducks[/td][td]155[/td][th]155[/th][th]15.50[/th][th]11[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Tuukka Rask[/td][td]Boston Bruins[/td][td]155[/td][th]175[/th][th]15.17[/th][th]13[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Jimmy Howard[/td][td]Detroit Red Wings[/td][td]150[/td][th]170[/th][th]15.00[/th][th]15[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Craig Anderson[/td][td]Ottawa Senators[/td][td]150[/td][th]150[/th][th]13.33[/th][th]36[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Kari Lehtonen[/td][td]Dallas Stars[/td][td]150[/td][th]170[/th][th]14.00[/th][th]27[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Mike Smith[/td][td]Phoenix Coyotes[/td][td]145[/td][th]145[/th][th]15.67[/th][th]10[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Niklas äckström[/td][td]Minnesota Wild[/td][td]145[/td][th]145[/th][th]13.67[/th][th]32[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Antti Niemi[/td][td]San Jose Sharks[/td][td]145[/td][th]175[/th][th]14.00[/th][th]28[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Sergei Bobrovsky[/td][td]Columbus Blue Jackets[/td][td]145[/td][th]160[/th][th]12.00[/th][th]48[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Karri Rämö[/td][td]Calgary Flames[/td][td]142[/td][th]155[/th][th]14.17[/th][th]25[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Brian Elliott[/td][td]St. Louis Blues[/td][td]140[/td][th]160[/th][th]14.17[/th][th]26[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Jaroslav Halák[/td][td]St. Louis Blues[/td][td]140[/td][th]170[/th][th]15.00[/th][th]16[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Corey Crawford[/td][td]Chicago Blackhawks[/td][td]140[/td][th]175[/th][th]16.00[/th][th]6[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Viktor Fasth[/td][td]Anaheim Ducks[/td][td]140[/td][th]140[/th][th]11.17[/th][th]64[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Robin Lehner[/td][td]Ottawa Senators[/td][td]140[/td][th]-8[/th][th]9.67[/th][th]-[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Ilya Bryzgalov[/td][td]Edmonton Oilers[/td][td]135[/td][th]135[/th][th]13.17[/th][th]38[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Ondřej Pavelec[/td][td]Winnipeg Jets[/td][td]135[/td][th]160[/th][th]12.67[/th][th]42[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Devan Dubnyk[/td][td]Edmonton Oilers[/td][td]135[/td][th]160[/th][th]11.50[/th][th]56[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Anders Lindbäck[/td][td]Tampa Bay Lightning[/td][td]135[/td][th]150[/th][th]12.17[/th][th]46[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Jonathan Bernier[/td][td]Toronto Maple Leafs[/td][td]135[/td][th]170[/th][th]12.67[/th][th]41[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Jonas Gustavsson[/td][td]Detroit Red Wings[/td][td]135[/td][th]145[/th][th]11.17[/th][th]65[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Braden Holtby[/td][td]Washington Capitals[/td][td]135[/td][th]145[/th][th]10.17[/th][th]-[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]James Reimer[/td][td]Toronto Maple Leafs[/td][td]135[/td][th]160[/th][th]10.17[/th][th]-[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Joacim Eriksson[/td][td]Vancouver Canucks[/td][td]130[/td][th]155[/th][th]15.17[/th][th]14[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Josh Harding[/td][td]Minnesota Wild[/td][td]130[/td][th]140[/th][th]13.33[/th][th]37[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Semyon Varlamov[/td][td]Colorado Avalanche[/td][td]130[/td][th]165[/th][th]14.00[/th][th]29[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Evgeni Nabokov[/td][td]New York Islanders[/td][td]130[/td][th]130[/th][th]12.33[/th][th]44[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Justin Peters[/td][td]Carolina Hurricanes[/td][td]130[/td][th]120[/th][th]9.83[/th][th]-[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Jake Allen[/td][td]St. Louis Blues[/td][td]130[/td][th]-9[/th][th]10.17[/th][th]-[/th][/tr][/table]


Some other goaltenders…
[table][tr][th]Player[/th][th]Team[/th][th]CA[/th][th]PA[/th][th]Avg G Atts[/th][th]Att Ranking[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Tomáš Vokoun[/td][td]Pittsburgh Penguins[/td][td]125[/td][th]125[/th][th]15.00[/th][th]17[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Johan Gustafsson[/td][td]Minnesota Wild[/td][td]125[/td][th]150[/th][th]14.67[/th][th]20[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Steve Mason[/td][td]Philadelphia Flyers[/td][td]125[/td][th]145[/th][th]11.33[/th][th]61[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Jean-Sébastien Giguère[/td][td]Colorado Avalanche[/td][td]125[/td][th]125[/th][th]10.50[/th][th]75[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Ben Scrivens[/td][td]Los Angeles Kings[/td][td]120[/td][th]130[/th][th]8.67[/th][th]-[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Ben Bishop[/td][td]Tampa Bay Lightning[/td][td]120[/td][th]135[/th][th]9.17[/th][th]-[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Martin Jones[/td][td]Los Angeles Kings[/td][td]108[/td][th]-8[/th][th]12.33[/th][th]45[/th][/tr][/table]

[Peter_Doherty]

This doesnt seem right at all Bishop needs a massive boost in both CA and attributes, Scrivens needs the same boost but a bit less. Mason and Giguere also needs boosts. Can comment on the rest later.

[Peter_Doherty]

These are my thoughts on this, doing it really fast to get a discussion going so just point out where im wrong

Henrik Lundqvist; Should either be lowered a bit or the other top keepers should be boosted. He was never alot better then the other top keepers. 180 seems legit.
Carey Price; Should have lower CA i think.
Pekka Rinne; Seems alright to me.
Jonathan Quick; Looks okey, maybe down to 170?
Ryan Miller; Should be a bit lowered.
Martin Brodeur; Should be lowered a bit.
Cory Schneider; Should be lowered by 5 less then Brodeur?:)
Cam Ward; Needs to be lowered quite a bit.
Marc-André Fleury; Consistency down to 1? otherwise just lower CA i guess.
Roberto Luongo; Not sure.
Tim Thomas; Way too high attributes, CA should probably be lowered too.
Jonas Hiller; 145 CA?
Tuukka Rask; 180 CA with booster attributes too?
Jimmy Howard; I'm not a fan of Howard so i might be wrong in thinking hes too high, but i do think that
Craig Anderson; needs higher attributes atleast.
Kari Lehtonen; Not sure, maybe a boost?
Mike Smith; Not sure about CA, but he needs to have good puck handling, not sure if he has that already =P
Niklas Bäckström; Is too good, 135 sounds about right?
Antti Niemi; Should be boosted alot.
Sergei Bobrovsky; Needs better attributes and CA above 160.
Karri Rämö; Not sure.
Brian Elliott; Not sure.
Jaroslav Halak; Not sure.
Corey Crawford; 150?
Viktor Fasth; 130 with a bit better attributes?
Robin Lehner; Needs better attributes and -9, maybe higher CA too.
Ilya Bryzgalov; Not sure.
Ondřej Pavelec; Not sure.
Devan Dubnyk; Lowered a bit?
Anders Lindbäck; Should be lowered a bit.
Jonathan Bernier; Needs a big boost.
Jonas Gustavsson; Probably deserves a boost.
Braden Holtby; Boost attributes and leave CA?
Joacim Eriksson; Needs to be lowered.
Josh Harding; Needs a big boost.
Semyon Varlamov; Needs a big boost.
Evgeni Nabokov; Should be boosted.
Justin Peters; Not sure.
Jake Allen; Not sure.
Tomáš Vokoun; Not sure.
Johan Gustafsson; Lower CA?
Steve Mason; Should get a boost.
Jean-Sébastien Giguère; boost attributes?
Ben Scrivens; needs a big boost in attributes and a small one in CA?
Ben Bishop; Needs a big boost everywhere.
Martin Jones; Not Sure

[Tyees]

Lundqvist 190/190 Positional
Price 180/185 Positional
Quick 180/185-189 Athletic
Rask 180/185-189 Athletic
Fleury 170/170 Athletic: with low pressure and important matches
Lehtonen 170/180 Athletic
Rinne 170/180 Athletic: Lower Natural Fitness
Miller 165/165 Athletic: Maybe lower Professionalism
Luongo 160/170 Positional: Up Injury Proneness lower Reflex, Glove and Recovery
Schneider 160/185 Positional
Smith 160/160 Positional: Lower Professionalism, Sportsmanship, increase Stamina, Fitness and Dirtyness

Will do more later

[jesterx7769]

Thank you for pulling this together! As I mentioned in the other thread starting NHL goalie attributes is a pretty big bummer when they're wrong.

- While the goalie ratings are important, how much do other attributes effect them overall? ie agility, anticipation, etc
- I don't think they all need little tweaks here and there as that is just a waste of time. It is more the ones that aren't currently good enough to start that need attention.

These are the guys that need serious boosting:

Josh Harding: Playing out of his mind and talent was never the issue
Craig Anderson: His avg goalie ratings should not be 36
Bobrovsky: Needs a massive boost. Award winner last year as best goalie and is 48th in avg g attributes?
Holtby: Needs a boost. He is not super great but having 10 for avg goalie ratings in NHL is still insulting
Bernier: Been playing well def deserves a strong boost
Reimer: Not as good as Bernier this year but deserves a boost
Ben Bishop: The guy is 4th in GAA right now on a non-defensive team, he needs a big boost.
Justin Peters: Slight boost, he is a very popular trade target right now and has shown he can play at least should have back up atts.
Varlamov: Needs a boost especially CA, he is probably going to be Russia's starting goaltender for Olympics and started this season insane.
Giguere: His ratings seem really bad and he is def still "starter" material instead of AHL material
Anti Ratta of the Blackhawks could probably use a slight boost after the way he has performed
Scrivens: Up a little but not a whole lot
Martin Jones: CA up a bit but not a whole lot
Rask: Probably use higher CA


I'm not as concerned with lowering peoples skills but, as for the negatives...

Tim Thomas needs to be lowered a lot
Martin Broduer should be lowered, his avg g ratings are not 5th any longer
Vokoun, no way his avg g ats are 15th

[batdad]

Not saying noone is doing this....likely someone is. But before you make any changes....please compare the body of work of each goalie to the other goalies in the league etc. A guy like Martin Jones is doing great right now....but quite honestly....is he really that good in comparison to the top starters in the league. Bishop is hot...sure great....but how has he shown this consistently... I mean Eliott was super awesome amazing and Anderson was super awesome amazing and Leighton was super awesome amazing and Bryz was super awesome amazing....but that was short lived.

No way no how should these young guys who are performing great be rated anywhere near the guys who have been consistently great for 5-10 years....

Please please please look at the whole picture which includes the idea that right now a blind goat could play goal for the Los Angeles Kings and have a chance at a shutout. The defensive system on that team is beyond belief for development, and buy in from the guys in front of Jones.

Conversely, the Leaf goalies are doing okay in comparison to the team and players in front of them, but even that is falling apart. And in EHM if you rate the goalies too highly .... IE TORONTO...you can give up 200000000 shots in a game and allow only 1 goal, because the goalie is even more important in the game rating wise to the outcome than they are in real life.

Short term successes...especially coming AFTER the volunteers have rated the positions in the game are impossible to know about. Anderson falling from grace as fast as he has....that can be predicted....so here are my predicitions..

Someone will up Bishop to all 19s....and Bishop will be AMAZING in EHM...and then....in real life he will fall apart and look like an average goalie again ....and someone will write in here that the people rating him have no freaking clue what they are doing and need to give their head a shake.

Sorry, but it has to be done very very carefully and not reactionary. One 30 game season is not enough data to say that Bishop is the new Martin Broduer. Tim Thomas is facing alot more quality shots in Florida than he was in Boston....a lot tougher scoring chances because the team in front of him sucks. In EHM his ratings help too much and he needs to be lowered...a BIT....but not a ton.

oh and just because a guy is an Olympic goalie for his country does not mean he should be top 10 in the NHL or even top 15. Russian goalies are not that super amazing awesome at this point....at least not Varlamov. He is good and may deserve a small bump at best. but he is not as good as the goalies that Canada, USA or even Sweden or Finland will be icing in the Olympics. Just because he is Russia (Maybe) #1 guy...does not mean he is better than Canada or USA even #3.

It will never be exactly right...no one in their right mind would have predicted the short term success of Bishop at this point. He has had it, and once has proven he can sustain it,..then deserves a bump.

Just because someone plays in the NHL does not mean they are better than someone who does not. Example for this....the Edmonton Oilers 4th line .....are all those guys better than say....the guys that Detroit has called up fromt the minors lately.....Nope. Have to be careful here. And the crew really knows that who have been doing this work, but they just have not been able to predict the future....


That being said...this database may be the best thing that has happened...it seems to be getting some people off their butts to help out. I thank all of the people who have worked so hard on this db and HOPE that those who are writing in here will continue to contribute.
I am not roasting anyone here or telling anyone off....I am explaining what needs to be watched out for.


DO NOT RATE PLAYERS for the game in a bubble of feeling, emotion or short term success. I mean Lars Eller had a 10 game point streak...so I guess he should be rated like OVenchicken? See what i mean...things can get out of hand and have to be very very careful or you end up with a database of every player being rated with all super star stats.

[Peter_Doherty]

I agree with batdad and hope that my big post didnt get misinterpreted. When i say big boost on Bishop for example, i dont want him to be 170+ CA with 18+ avg attributes... But he should be boosted to the point where he's not useless Probably around 145 CA with about 14-15 avg attribtues?

Edit: Wrote this in the wrong thread yesterday: Without knowing their CA/PA and Avg attributes i guess that Talbot, Grubauer, Stalock, Budaj, Andersen and McElhinney needs boosts.

[CJ]

What I did with the 98 DB = I took ALL NHL GK's and added them to a list (Those who played in the 90's and the future GK's). THEN I started organizing them into a PA only list. At that point CA is not important. I only look at PA as in what they were or will be at their best. When I have all PA on all GK's, then you can work on CA. It's easy for GK's who all playing their best season right now, then the CA is the same as PA. This is what I'd recommend for this DB too. Looking at NHL GK's only this list editing shouldn't take too long to do/edit.

[Tyees]

So for 78 goalies have played any minutes in the NHL this year, might do a list later tonight of 90 or so goalies, including AHL.

[nino33]

FYI - In TBL 6.0 there are 146 goalies who are "Contracted To" an NHL team. 60 NHLers, 50 in the AHL, 26 in the ECHL, 2 in the CHL, 6 in Major Junior and 1 each in Sweden/Finland.

[Tyees]

90 or so... 146... same thing

[boxhamster]

First, sorry for my very bad english.
Here is my opinion about a few goalies

Henrik Lundqvist : Should a little bit lower + the new contract
Martin Brodeur: Should a little bit lower
Antti Niemi: Should a little bit higher
Sergei Bobrovsky: Should higher ( he won the Vezina Trophy last Season )
Tim Thomas: lower
Ben Bishop: higher
Bernier: higher
Talbot: Needs a massive boost
Grubauer: Needs a massive boost
Andersen: Needs a boost

[CeeBee]

Have not played long enough to get a good read on everybody yet.

Henrik Lundqvist; Probably a bit lower
Carey Price; ok
Pekka Rinne; ok
Jonathan Quick; bit lower
Ryan Miller; ok
Martin Brodeur; fair bit lower
Cory Schneider; bit lower
Cam Ward; lower
Marc-André Fleury; ok I think
Roberto Luongo; Higher (he's not even top 20 in my game)
Tim Thomas; a lot lower
Jonas Hiller; ok?
Tuukka Rask; ok
Jimmy Howard; lower
Craig Anderson; bit higher
Kari Lehtonen; not sure
Mike Smith; not sure
Niklas Bäckström; not sure
Antti Niemi; higher
Sergei Bobrovsky; fair bit higher
Karri Rämö; Not sure.
Brian Elliott; Not sure.
Jaroslav Halak; Not sure.
Corey Crawford; higher
Viktor Fasth not sure
Robin Lehner; not sure
Ilya Bryzgalov; Not sure.
Ondřej Pavelec; Not sure.
Devan Dubnyk; not sure
Anders Lindbäck; lower
Jonathan Bernier; higher
Jonas Gustavsson; higher a bit
Braden Holtby; bit higher
Joacim Eriksson; ok
Josh Harding; fair bit higher
Semyon Varlamov; higher
Evgeni Nabokov not sure
Justin Peters; Not sure.
Jake Allen; higher
Tomáš Vokoun; Not sure.
Johan Gustafsson; not sure
Steve Mason; higher
Jean-Sébastien Giguère; higher
Ben Scrivens; higher
Ben Bishop; lot higher
Martin Jones; Not Sure
Lack : Lot higher
Some players are small sample size but what else to go on? Lack for instance was pretty good in the AHL, had a major hip injury and surgery and so far this year has been great... who knows the future but same could be said for many players, especially goalies, even good ones with lots of nhl games fade fast( looking at you Fleury) . Some rebound(Fleury) some don't.

[Manimal]

Henrik Lundqvist : + the new contract

I don't know how many times I need to post that this is a 2013-2014 roster update and players have their 2o13-14 salary (with ELCs re-calculated) and no extensions are available to put in

[boxhamster]

Sorry.
I have not read every post and also not all understood what I've read. my english is limited but i like the game.

[archibalduk]

That being said...this database may be the best thing that has happened...it seems to be getting some people off their butts to help out. I thank all of the people who have worked so hard on this db and HOPE that those who are writing in here will continue to contribute.

This is a great thread (thanks Nino and eveybody who has contributed here). As Batdad says above, it's brilliant to see that the DB has provoked people to really look into the NHL ratings. For years we have been asking for users to help re-rate the NHL and we've never been able to get the level of help we need (we do get a couple of users who very kindly help with one or two teams, but we need enough users/help to cover the entire league). Hence it was left to me to try my hand at re-rating the NHL; otherwise we'd be left again with the same old ratings which are generally both out of date and do not really follow what SI planned when they developed the game.

Although I've followed the Bruins and, to a lesser extent, a number of other NHL teams for many years, there are many, many other users here who could do a better job than I (I'm far more knowledgeable on the British leagues than the NHL). There was also the additional challenge of trying to re-rate approx 1,000 players on my own (as well as spending a lot of time on improving the scoring, PIM and fighting levels). I've had to use my own (limited) knowledge, depth charts, stats and the existing attributes as a basis for the re-rating. I had hoped that things would at least be along the right lines, but the general feedback seems to be that they are simply not good enough. I'm sincerely sorry for that and it's clearly entirely my fault.

On the plus side, the re-rating seems to have gotten everybody talking on a much larger scale than ever before. I think this is really positive for the DB in the long term. Once we have planned out how to go about improving the DB based on all of the feedback we have been getting, I think the NHL ratings will be in the best shape they have ever been - and we'll have achieved exactly what we had hoped for (i.e. a much improved NHL in the game)

DO NOT RATE PLAYERS for the game in a bubble of feeling, emotion or short term success. I mean Lars Eller had a 10 game point streak...so I guess he should be rated like OVenchicken? See what i mean...things can get out of hand and have to be very very careful or you end up with a database of every player being rated with all super star stats.

I really want to reiterate this quote from Batdad. Additionally, as a I mentioned last week, I will post an explanation of how I re-rated the league. The aim behind the re-rating was to make the NHL more realistic in terms of ratings. There was a lot of over-rating in the DB in the NHL (and this stems from the original EHM 2007 DB). So I would suggest waiting for my explanation before deciding whether player X should have a 190 CA, etc because I do feel some of those comments are based on the traditional over-rating mindset. It will take me an hour or two to write the explanation, but I hope to have time to do this tomorrow. I think this will help frame how CAs, etc for any particular player should be adjusted.

I think it is much more helpful at this stage to say that Player X should be better/worse than Player Z (which in actual fact is how most people have been commenting thus far ) - i.e. by comparing players with one another rather than arbitrarily setting ratings in isolation. When considering whether a player needs his attributes increasing/decreasing, we need to take into account how they're already performing in the game, how they compare to players of similar real life skill, and their height/weight (as EHM over-emphasises tall and heavy players).

I also want to highlight this very useful thread which gives some basic guidance on how things ought to be done (I've added red, bold typeface to some of the key points):

Riz made extensive changes in EHM2007 to the CA-attribute relationship to allow for more variation in attributes for high- and low- CA players; the earlier versions of the games tended to make it impossible to give NHL star-caliber players very low ratings in a technical attribute - you could enter the number in the database, but the game would see the big CA and inflate it.

Those changes are also the reason why the old approximations that draw a direct line between CA and attribute totals (e.g., attribute average = CA/10, CA = sum of attributes, etc.) aren't a good idea when working with EHM2007 data. You'll wind up with underrated young players and a glut of overrated stars if you do that (unfortunately, some of the 2007 researchers weren't exactly diligent about paying attention to the new guidelines, so the stock game has tendencies in that direction already.)

Nontechnicals, for the most part, are independent of CA and should use the whole 1-20 range, clustering heavily towards the middle. Some of them (e.g., the skating-related ones) do get adjusted a bit by CA, but not to an extent that's worth worrying about when you're doing the ratings.

When I was doing the last revision of the research guide, I spent quite a while talking back-and-forth with Riz about what he'd changed with CA to make sure I understood it properly and could explain it to the other HR's, in the hope that everybody would get the message. That was an unusual amount of time for him to spend on db-related stuff, but it was that important. Unfortunately, while some of the guys paid attention to the big red "read me, it's important" text in their new guide - Matt Bosela's one I remember getting it exactly right - not all did, and there wasn't time to fix all of the problems. But no reason to keep repeating their mistakes when it can be clarified now, right? Much easier to avoid people creating bad data in the first place than it is to find and fix the problems later - believe me, I know, after spending hundreds of hours trying to undo damage done to some of the league db's, with only mixed success.

What I'd suggest doing is working on a case-by-case basis for the players based on what looks "wrong" with their stats - the best starting point is probably getting their shots-per-minute and minutes played into a reasonably accurate range (pass tendency being the best thing to use for the former, and a combination of stamina, natural fitness, CA, and off/def roles for the latter.) Once you've got that, you can see who's doing too little or too much of what, whether it's scoring, hitting, taking penalties, or whatever. From there just adjust the logical attribute(s) that drive the number in question. Then run another season, check the results, and adjust again through as many iterations as you want. Even if you just do it for the NHL regulars and one or two passes through them, you should get significant improvements in the realism of the stats - in the short term, at least.

But the one big impediment I see to getting good long-term results is the attribute inflation that's happened from version to version and then in user-modified db's. After running the game for a while, there winds up being far too many players at the higher reaches of CA and it's just not a realistic environment to model anything in. The only solution I can see to that is a massive re-rate that pushes most CA's and PA's lower, but that's obviously a huge project.

Anyhow, as I promised, I will post hopefully tomorrow a more detailed explanation of how I went about re-rating the NHL. Hopefully this will enable us to then get to work on implementing all of the feedback received thus far and encouraging more users to post further feedback.

I just wanted to post this now so that users don't think I've abandoned the NHL re-rating because of the general disappointment - it's just that I've been away for a few days visiting family.

In the mean time, please keep the feedback coming.

[Primis]

Why does Tim Thomas still have a higher PA? What "potential" does he have to grow? That makes no sense to me. Otherwise seems fine I guess. Goalies are so hard to predict/rate.

[ElPayaso]

- Cam Wards PA seems a bit high to me.
- Mike Smith needs a boost in CA/PA, at least up to 155-160 imo.
- Viktor Fasth needs better attributes.
- Robin Lehner should have way better attributes and also PA-9.
- Varlamov needs a massive boost.

[batdad]

Again where do these guys fit in with the rest of the league. Just looking at Ward and Smith....who is better, who ranks around them.

play a game of rank all the goalies in your notes, not just individual increase this decrease that because. Justify your answer by comparing to the other goalies out there. Saying Varlamov needs a massive boost does the researchers no good. Saying Varlamov needs a boost so that he is equal to Cam Ward (not saying that is the answer) in this skill, this skill and this skill and not as good as Cam Ward at this and this, and better than CAm but not as good as Carey Price at this this and this.

That is the kind of thing that helps. Just generalizing does not. Compare, contrast and be more specific. What about VArlamov needs a massive boost? His reflexes? His glove? His skating or his leadership? His temperment?

[CJ]

What about VArlamov needs a massive boost? His reflexes? His glove? His skating or his leadership? His temperment?

What about Assault and Kidnapping skill?

[philou21]

That should fit under "agression" IMO.

[jesterx7769]

You are now on Putin's list.

[batdad]

Poutine? I love poutine, especially in rainbow colored bowls.

Umm..yeah Varlamov....fits in the middle of the pack.

[coombs14]

Question about goalie attribute rankings. How, beyond consistency rating, can you reflect the fluctuations in a goalie's play?

For example, Craig Anderson. If I was to watch him play against Nashville last week, I would have said that he was one of the top goaltenders in the league. Strong reflexes, confident, exceptionally good positional, quick recovery and a very sharp glove hand. I would easily compare him with other pure butterfly goalies such as Carey Price, Roberto Luongo and even King Hendrick (watch replays of the 2011 playoffs as proof that Anderson can outplay the king).

HOWEVER...

If you watched the Montreal Ottawa game last night you would say that Anderson ranks somewhere slightly closer to Budaj and not Price. He was truly terrible. So how do you reflect that change? This isn't a case of Ondrej Pavelec, who is a terrible terrible goalie but is athletic enough to bail himself out of (self-created) situations and so sometimes seems to steal games for his team. Ultimately it averages out to Anderson having middle of the road stats but he is rarely just middle of the road. He is either lights out or terrible.

Maybe the obvious answer is just his consistency rating and I wrote a long post for nothing...

[Manimal]

Pressure perhaps?
Not sure if Important matches only counts in the playoffs or if it is also used in games vs. your rivals