Develoment updates

[batdad]

I think for the first time in awhile I can feel a tiny or at least some bit of optimism for FHM

Sebastien's new update thread showed some fruit today. I like his new DEVELOPMENT and PRACTICE ideas. The increases, declines..the variability, the checks and balances on aging and decline, and the fact that not every player will level off and decline at the same time, and not everything will just drop off like in EHM....

I think these things are really interesting to me. I like the updates idea.

I wish the time frame for increase derease points was not limited to a per month update email but that is a dang good start. I would like to see the abilities improve at random times like EHM seems to do.

It also appears that there is not much that can stop a young player from improving something as time goes on. By that I mean like in EHM where a goalie is playing so many games he does not practice as needs to rest...sometimes you see some attributes drop off at very difficult to predict times. Same for players if they are not practicing in an area that they are okay in but not great in.

But...this is a bloody good start.

Very pleased to see that they are looking at the basics of things...I really was not sure they would be. So a good RE start.

[zbguy]

It's good to see that they're still working on it. It looks like they've abandoned whatever plans they had to expand league-editing functions but I wasn't expecting that to be fleshed out this cycle anyway.

[nino33]

I think for the first time in awhile I can feel a tiny or at least some bit of optimism for FHM

Sebastien's new update thread showed some fruit today.....

Very pleased to see that they are looking at the basics of things...I really was not sure they would be. So a good RE start.

I thought so too...alas 3 days later and the developers are spending time on a Schedule Generator! http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/3 ... post4.html IMO a Schedule Generator is not basic and spending any time on it at this point shows that not enough has been learned from previous development mistakes

[batdad]

yeah I saw that.....boy that is basic.

[Alessandro]

I think for the first time in awhile I can feel a tiny or at least some bit of optimism for FHM

Sebastien's new update thread showed some fruit today.....

Very pleased to see that they are looking at the basics of things...I really was not sure they would be. So a good RE start.

I thought so too...alas 3 days later and the developers are spending time on a Schedule Generator! http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/3 ... post4.html IMO a Schedule Generator is not basic and spending any time on it at this point shows that not enough has been learned from previous development mistakes

Nino, I come in peace.
I don't agree with you here. A Schedule Generator is very important for long-term games, not only for custom rubbish which I hate (lol sorry but I had to write it somewhere). It allows for more variation and changes when needed. Right now you have the same schedule year in year out. Every season has the Olympics break
I think it's a good thing that they're coding it.

[Alessandro]

I think for the first time in awhile I can feel a tiny or at least some bit of optimism for FHM

Sebastien's new update thread showed some fruit today. I like his new DEVELOPMENT and PRACTICE ideas. The increases, declines..the variability, the checks and balances on aging and decline, and the fact that not every player will level off and decline at the same time, and not everything will just drop off like in EHM....

I think these things are really interesting to me. I like the updates idea.

I wish the time frame for increase derease points was not limited to a per month update email but that is a dang good start. I would like to see the abilities improve at random times like EHM seems to do.

It also appears that there is not much that can stop a young player from improving something as time goes on. By that I mean like in EHM where a goalie is playing so many games he does not practice as needs to rest...sometimes you see some attributes drop off at very difficult to predict times. Same for players if they are not practicing in an area that they are okay in but not great in.

But...this is a bloody good start.

Very pleased to see that they are looking at the basics of things...I really was not sure they would be. So a good RE start.

I agree with you, however, I still doubt I'll play any FHM 2014 because the game is very rough and there are certain things I can't live with (or without) like missing pre-season, lack of KHL realism, lack of financial realism, and so on.

[nino33]

. A Schedule Generator is very important for long-term games, not only for custom rubbish which I hate (lol sorry but I had to write it somewhere). It allows for more variation and changes when needed. Right now you have the same schedule year in year out. Every season has the Olympics break

I admit I didn't realize this (I would have thought they'd have dealt with this sometime in the last two years of development!). But IMO at this point they shouldn't worry about "as many structures as possible (like expanding the NHL to 31 teams)"

[zbguy]

Shouldn't a schedule generator be relatively easy to create? Sports games have had them for well over a decade now.

[archibalduk]

I did say we should be more optimistic (albeit cautiously) about FHM 15!

I agree with you, however, I still doubt I'll play any FHM 2014 because the game is very rough and there are certain things I can't live with (or without) like missing pre-season, lack of KHL realism, lack of financial realism, and so on.

Me too, unfortunately. Still, hopefully it'll continue heading in the right direction. Things sound more promising than they did.

Shouldn't a schedule generator be relatively easy to create? Sports games have had them for well over a decade now.

Many leagues have relatively complex schedules. Take the NHL, for example. I imagine coding a schedule generator to schedule the pre-2013/14 six division league is pretty complex. On top of that, you need to make it flexible enough so that it can cope with new team(s) added into the mix and also restructuring such as the 2013/14 structure. Like Alessandro says, a schedule generator is really important for the long term game. Otherwise, you'll be playing with the same schedule every season. With schedules for the likes of the NHL, you can't just swap around the team names in the schedule year-on-year because you have to maintain the correct number of inter-division and intra-division games.

IMO it's worth coding the flexibility from the start. Otherwise we end up with hardcoded data like EHM. I'm really glad the FHM devs have learnt from this and are trying to keep everything as flexible possible. I agree we don't need to worry about a 31 team league, but I think it's well worth them taking longer to get the generator totally flexible rather than doing it quickly and potentially getting stuck in the future.

Btw, for full disclosure, I have zero interest in custom leagues. What I say above is with the real game in mind.

[nino33]

Sebastian's said earlier today

"Regarding Bugs, I often read about it and I want to clarify something:

Bug: something does not work as intended, worst case it crashes the game.

Needs Tweaking: the feature/area works as intended but is a) not good enough (e.g. AI) or b) is boring (e.g. Scouting).

From reading the forums the two get mixed up often from people, making the game sound unplayable."

Maybe it's a language issue, but from my understanding of English he's saying his intention was to produce something that was not good enough/boring
Unless his intention was to produce a poor product, things are NOT working as intended! IMO it's such explanations previously that angered some, and I think this is why some express concerns about the development course (and the hockey understanding)...

[nino33]

I am impressed that Sebastian has now posted 4 times (in only 5 days) in his Update thread http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/f ... hread.html
It's to bad the locked thread, regular/frequent updates idea wasn't done earlier...but better late than never!

[batdad]

yes, I am impressed with the update frequency. I hope it keeps up.

No..I think the language is somewhat the issue. He is I think...saying....that even if something is not great in the game because of AI, or because of whatever within the game...it does work. Bugs are things that do not work, and cause stuff to break down. Just explaining technicality.

I may not like that the trade AI is not the way I want it, but it is not a bug.

I think he could do a better job of explaining and should probably not use the term "Intended, or works as intended" as I see what you are saying Nino...it sounds as though it is set in stone and done when he says that....and to you and I and most customers the AI sucks.

He is saying..tweaks to the things that work as they should (Ie do not break down the game)...like the AI are definitely possible, but they are not part of the bug report thread. They are just to go in the...this works, but it sucks thread. Except there is no this works but it sucks thread.

[nino33]

He is I think...saying....that even if something is not great in the game because of AI, or because of whatever within the game...it does work.

I did/do understand what he was getting at...but IMO he should not still use "works as intended" to describe things that he also calls not good enough/boring

In the same way, IMO he should stop telling disappointed/unhappy people to "go play EHM" http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/3 ... ost74.html

BUT - I do commend Sebastian for making the effort this past week to improve communication!

[batdad]

I meant to post that I figured you knew he was trying and posting with not the best English in the world.

And yea I hope he can keep it up but at the same time, he is the key coder for the game, and I would think that Jeff and the others could do some posting for him...so that he does not have to and can focus on the game.

Saying the game will never be EHM 2007 is really not the best way to go about things and telling people to play that game ... is hilarious.

But at the same time, I think he is trying (hope he is trying) to say that FHM is not EVER going to LOOK like EHm or feel like EHM or play like EHM...but will be a much more fun, more complex and better game to play down the road.

[archibalduk]

Saying the game will never be EHM 2007 is really not the best way to go about things and telling people to play that game ... is hilarious.

But at the same time, I think he is trying (hope he is trying) to say that FHM is not EVER going to LOOK like EHm or feel like EHM or play like EHM...but will be a much more fun, more complex and better game to play down the road.

Yeah, I think that's what he means. I know I'm not in his shoes, but I would probably be a little more diplomatic with complaining users. Telling them to get lost isn't going to help diffuse the situation. But I can totally see why he's getting fed up - I would too.

All of these planned improvements for FHM 2014 makes me wonder what will happen with FHM 15. Surely it's going to take several months to implement and test all of these big changes (and of course fix all of the inevitable bugs which come with such re-working). FHM 14 will surely be a heck of a lot better for it. But what time does this leave until FHM 15 is released in October 2014? Am I mistaken, or didn't they announce previously that FHM would be released on an annual basis roughly every September/October? I can't see the devs having time to implement all of these improvements and then move on to making FHM 15 within the next 8-9 months. Otherwise I expect they'll end up with another round of angry users complaining that FHM 15 is barely any different from FHM 14.

But perhaps I'm mistaken about FHM being an annual release?

[MWE]

I thought to that they had commissioned an FHM15 release

[philou21]

But perhaps I'm mistaken about FHM being an annual release?

Well OOTP is an annual release yes? FHM could be as well. For me though I don't think it's a good idea. Except when there's big changes I never understood that that kind of games gets annual release when you can just do a database update for the new season and simply work on adding more features for the next game a year later.

But for now, seeing how FHM is just starting, an annual release can still bring up alot of changes.

[archibalduk]

I agree - I don't like annual releases for sports games. I'd rather see something like a release every two years and then every other year just a roster update at say $5. But I think the problem with that is that the DB structure changes whilst developing a new version and it can't always be easily converted for an older version (partly because of structure changes and partly because the way an attribute works may change).

What I was trying to say is that I think it was announced somewhere in the forums that FHM 15 would be released in September/October. But what I wonder is that if they're working on re-doing all of the basic features for FHM 14, this will take them several months. This will then leave only a couple of months to start work on FHM 15 before September/October and so very little can be done for FHM 15. I just wonder whether the release of FHM 15 will be pushed back a long time.

[nino33]

I can't see the devs having time to implement all of these improvements and then move on to making FHM 15 within the next 8-9 months.

Especially given Sebastian's commitment to iOOTP (which will take a bunch of those months)

I think they'd be well served to post themselves only in an adult/professional manner (without the sarcasm/hyperbole) + actually moderate their forum. Put all the angry user complaints in one thread, encourage their supporters to not use hyperbole/childish/attacking language themselves, and encourage supporters to actually post answers to game questions, game/career results, research, how to do things, etc

[B. Stinson]

All I know is that it's going to be interesting seeing how this all works out. Like Archi is saying, we're getting awfully close to the point at which FHM 2015 development should begin, but it sounds like they're keeping their plates full with FHM 2014. Hopefully they haven't repeated their biggest mistake, announcing a release well before they're prepared to handle it.

[Loosie]

So FHM is not dead? I know the forum is still there and updates are still being made but I haven't played since just after the 'official' first release and like 3 updates within a couple of weeks. I may actually update and try again.

[archibalduk]

IMO I think the next update will be the one to try. It's still not enough to get me interested, but it's going to be a significant improvement over the current version (unless it introduces a new batch of bugs that slip though - which is quite plausible given the complexity of the changes).

[batdad]

Scouting update...looks like on the right track there. I like everything about it, except

1. The weekly report. Too many reports (like he said spam)
2. The decrease in accuracy over time. In truth, it depends how long this time frame is. If it is I did not scout him in a month....and the accuracy decreases that is is a problem. If it is I did not scout him in 2 years and it decreases...then fine.

I have an issue with EHM for example and scouts forgetting over time what they wrote about a player. No way in real life would that happen. They would remember, or be able to look up EXACTLY what they thought about him even 20 years earlier. So the memory exists.

yet I do understand that the player changes over time, and that if you have not seen him you may not know exactly what the player is if you have not scouted him. however...your report should not change on him. You still have the report from 2 years ago. If it is accurate cool, if player has changed the report would not be as accurate. No need to change the report and gradings....just that the accuracy will automatically not necessarily be right. No need to tell the user that by changing the abcde grade portion of the scouting. User should know.

[jesterx7769]

Yeah I still haven't invested yet either. disappointed with how buggy everyone says it is.

[archibalduk]

The Patch Thread over on the OOTP forum is hilarious! I wondered whether there would be certain users reacting to Sebastian's post saying the modern game is the priority. Sure enough Oriels took exception! The crux of his argument being 5,000 people have interest only in fictional and it'll of course mean the game can't cope with any future NHL expansions.

It's a good job there's Oriels fighting the fictional corner because none of the other 4,999 users have said anything!

I totally get why people are interested in making their own hockey world, but the game has to be a hockey game first and foremost.