Choices for our next challenge

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:11 pm

So our Tampa Bay Lightning challenge will be wrapping up at the end of the month (or maybe extended if enough people want it extended), so I've been thinking about what our next challenge should be. I've got some ideas that I'd like to poll everyone on and see what's got the most interest.

I know we've had some interest in a challenge with one of the European leagues but we need somebody to make a guide. I have ZERO knowledge of how any of these European leagues work. I don't know what we'd need to do in regards to tweaking the rules. That's something we'd need to plan well in advance and have somebody work on planning out for us. I think for now it's got to be taken off the table. I'm putting the idea out there though to see if we can have someone start some of that leg work so we can try it in a challenge 2 or 3 challenges down the road.

I find the AHL and ECHL a little frustrating because your roster is almost totally out of your hands because you depend on the NHL team to supply most of your players. They're definitely doable though. I think the lack of a draft and the lack of much real trading takes some of the fun out of it but if people want it, I'm on board with it. It will only require slight rule tweaking.

I really like the Canadian Juniors challenges. We've done a few of them in the past and I think it could be fun to do another. Manimal suggested the OHL and I think that would be a good fit. I'm not sure what team yet though.

Once in the past we did a challenge (Challenge #21where we created a team based upon several polls where you got to pick between 4 players. It was a lot of work to setup but I thought that roster was a lot of fun because it was created from players from so many different teams.

Back when we were planning Challenge #25, I had tossed around the idea of taking the Bruins and replacing all of the players and staff with New England born people. That pretty much includes the states of Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont, and maybe Connecticut. I went so far as to make a spreadsheet with the swaps in the Bruins roster at that time. The rosters (and the DB) have changed a good deal since then (this was based upon the 4.2 database) but a lot of the leg work is already done.

The last option I'd like to throw out there is a challenge where I'll add a GM to a lower league, sim ahead several years, and then share my save. We'd take over on of the worst teams in the league from that point. I could even have it set so we can take over right before the draft. It would be interesting because some teams will have self-destructed by this point and be a real mess. It will also be fun to be picking up at a point where many players might have retired and we've got new young stars in the league. One of the downfalls of this will be a large download for everyone who participates. I don't use compressed saves (due to the increased risk of corruption) and I only select NHL, AHL, ECHL, UHL, CHL, and the Canadian Juniors. I still see saves getting up over 200 MB. Manimal also pointed out the novelty of this type of roster might be lost on people who participate in the EHM2005 Online Leagues. They're already playing with future rosters. Still, I think it could be fun for the majority of us.

So those are the options. I'm giving everyone 2 choices on this poll because we've got 6 options and the votes could be too spread out with only one choice per user. Please feel free to discuss them in this thread and make you poll selections. Thanks!

Post by **Primis** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:02 pm

I don't usually do the Challenges but I figured I'd chime in here:

I *love* playing in the AHL and ECHL (I seem to be one of the few, I may have played in them more than anyone else even, I dunno'. I rarely even play NHL to be hoenst). The AHL in particular can be a lot of fun (I love playing in the AHL as an Independent and cobbling together NHL leftovers and unsigned youngsters). However I don't think it will make a good Challenge game. Success in the AHL and ECHL in particular means you lose all your good players (even if they aren't that great but are just overachieving), and ECHL roster rules suuuuuuuck so when one of your top players signs in the NHL or AHL, you have no reserves to even replace them with and basically *have* to sign a FA. It all can (and does) often go right off the rails rather quickly. Maybe that's the sort of thing players want though, I dunno'. Sometimes that's what I want when I play the AHL and ECHL -- I want it to all blow up in my face and be tough to fix. Sometimes instead I'd like to get through a season without losing my Top 5 players though (because not only does you NHL affiliate maybe call guys up, but your other guys are open season to sign as FA's higher up as well).

As for the final option.... if a 200MB save is too big of a download for people, I dunno' man. This is 2014. Games for your *phone* are regularly 150MB in size anymore. I don't think an uncompressed save size should even be a consideration or big deal, seriously people would cope. Shoot, you should sim it out maybe 20 years or something and be almost a 100% fictional gamegen player pool.

Post by **Peter_Doherty** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:21 pm

I really like the idea of the New England roster, how would the rules be in such a challenge?

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:45 pm

Primis wrote:I don't usually do the Challenges but I figured I'd chime in here:

That's okay. More input is always good!

Primis wrote:I *love* playing in the AHL and ECHL (I seem to be one of the few, I may have played in them more than anyone else even, I dunno'. I rarely even play NHL to be hoenst). The AHL in particular can be a lot of fun (I love playing in the AHL as an Independent and cobbling together NHL leftovers and unsigned youngsters). However I don't think it will make a good Challenge game. Success in the AHL and ECHL in particular means you lose all your good players (even if they aren't that great but are just overachieving), and ECHL roster rules suuuuuuuck so when one of your top players signs in the NHL or AHL, you have no reserves to even replace them with and basically *have* to sign a FA. It all can (and does) often go right off the rails rather quickly. Maybe that's the sort of thing players want though, I dunno'. Sometimes that's what I want when I play the AHL and ECHL -- I want it to all blow up in my face and be tough to fix. Sometimes instead I'd like to get through a season without losing my Top 5 players though (because not only does you NHL affiliate maybe call guys up, but your other guys are open season to sign as FA's higher up as well).

I think we'd have to adjust trading and UFA signing rules (as in, throw them out the window). Being dependent upon your affiliate (or maybe without an affiliate to supply you with talent) leaves too many potential holes for us to fill. I think if we did an AHL or ECHL challenge it would be focused on getting the most out of what you can get. I think for this challenge we could also throw out the non-player staff rules too. Hire whoever you can get and do what you can with that team.

Primis wrote:As for the final option.... if a 200MB save is too big of a download for people, I dunno' man. This is 2014. Games for your *phone* are regularly 150MB in size anymore. I don't think an uncompressed save size should even be a consideration or big deal, seriously people would cope. Shoot, you should sim it out maybe 20 years or something and be almost a 100% fictional gamegen player pool.

I agree but I figured I'd throw it out there. I know I regularly use my Skydrive to move my current save file between home and the office. So I'm usually uploading and then downloading a big save twice a day. It's not a big deal to me.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:48 pm

Peter_Doherty wrote:I really like the idea of the New England roster, how would the rules be in such a challenge?

I think in this scenario, you would inherit this roster and staff from a past GM that wanted to use all people from New England and you've got to pick up the pieces and try to rebuild a normal NHL team. Normal trade rules, UFA rules, and staff signing rules would all apply. I think it would be hard to enforce something where you require people to draft New England players and I don't even think it would be possible to trade for New England born players because there wouldn't be many NHL-caliber New England born players left to trade for.

Post by **batdad** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:14 pm

Ah B72 those are awesome challenges. I would be interested in the play forward. How far would you go, say 5 years? 10?

also the New England one now that i see the clarification could be a decent one.

Have you got a thought on the original roster and staff? Torts and Schneider? LOL

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:10 pm

I was thinking 5 but could go 10 on the play forward. Just in case (and also because it's interested me for so long), I've started my laptop at home simming ahead. I think I went on vacation for about 4 years to start and then I wanted to save.

The New England one has got lots of thought already put into it. Torts is a definite for coach. I also had Schneider as the goalie. Both of Bourque's kids would be on the roster. The defense is okay but the forwards are pretty bad.

Post by **timmy_t** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:59 pm

I'm all about the play forward option. I have been playing in DMB and DMA (EHM 2005 online league) but I really think I could get motivated for a challenge like that!

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:11 pm

batdad wrote: also the New England one now that i see the clarification could be a decent one.

Have you got a thought on the original roster and staff? Torts and Schneider? LOL

Oh and I was thinking it could work to do a Montreal challenge with only players and staff born in the province of Quebec but I figured, the Canadiens have already gotten a challenge and I've already waited about 30 (I think I missed the first challenge but started participating in the 2nd or 3rd) challenges to be able to use my team. I haven't played using my Bruins! And if we do the play forward challenge and the Bruins are one of the worst teams in the league, you know I'll be all over that!

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:13 pm

timmy_t wrote:I'm all about the play forward option. I have been playing in DMB and DMA (EHM 2005 online league) but I really think I could get motivated for a challenge like that!

I think it could be fun. You've got to figure, we're using EHM2007 instead of 2005 and we're using rosters that start in the present. It should make things a bit different.

Post by **Manimal** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:30 pm

bruins72 wrote:
Primis wrote:I *love* playing in the AHL and ECHL (I seem to be one of the few, I may have played in them more than anyone else even, I dunno'. I rarely even play NHL to be hoenst). The AHL in particular can be a lot of fun (I love playing in the AHL as an Independent and cobbling together NHL leftovers and unsigned youngsters). However I don't think it will make a good Challenge game. Success in the AHL and ECHL in particular means you lose all your good players (even if they aren't that great but are just overachieving), and ECHL roster rules suuuuuuuck so when one of your top players signs in the NHL or AHL, you have no reserves to even replace them with and basically *have* to sign a FA. It all can (and does) often go right off the rails rather quickly. Maybe that's the sort of thing players want though, I dunno'. Sometimes that's what I want when I play the AHL and ECHL -- I want it to all blow up in my face and be tough to fix. Sometimes instead I'd like to get through a season without losing my Top 5 players though (because not only does you NHL affiliate maybe call guys up, but your other guys are open season to sign as FA's higher up as well).
I think we'd have to adjust trading and UFA signing rules (as in, throw them out the window). Being dependent upon your affiliate (or maybe without an affiliate to supply you with talent) leaves too many potential holes for us to fill. I think if we did an AHL or ECHL challenge it would be focused on getting the most out of what you can get. I think for this challenge we could also throw out the non-player staff rules too. Hire whoever you can get and do what you can with that team.

Well, there are three un-affiliated teams in the ECHL that could be fun to use; Colorado, Fort Wayne and Las Vegas.
Then there are teams with either one or two NHL-affiliates. Plus the fact that we have three AHL teams in the ECHL.

Animal31 · Post by **Animal31** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:44 pm

What if it was the WHL, but the age limits were scrunched by one?

IE in 2007 you can normally have 2 kids born in 1991 (3 in the actual game), why not make that 2 kids from 1990 and 0 from 91? and ban kids born in 1986 outright, limiting to 3 1987s?

Post by **Manimal** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:59 pm

Animal31 wrote:What if it was the WHL, but the age limits were scrunched by one?

IE in 2007 you can normally have 2 kids born in 1991 (3 in the actual game), why not make that 2 kids from 1990 and 0 from 91? and ban kids born in 1986 outright, limiting to 3 1987s?

The lower age limit is hard coded. Are you asking if we should make a rule not to have any overagers and just three of the next class?

Post by **batdad** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:16 pm

I think that is what he is suggesting. And Bruins...right you are, after the amount of time you have put in to the challenges. Bruins from New England it is for me. Even if you have to add in any state starting with New. New Mexico, New York, New Jersey, New (Foundland), New Brunswick. What a Bruins team that could make- NEW (nova) scotia, New Edward Island.

I want to change my vote..so deduct one from fast forward, unless it is the Bruins (And quite honestly the way the AI works with that team it would possibly be Boston in that one too) ....

and i now vote for the New Bostonian challenge.

Animal31 · Post by **Animal31** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:28 pm

Manimal wrote:
Animal31 wrote:What if it was the WHL, but the age limits were scrunched by one?

IE in 2007 you can normally have 2 kids born in 1991 (3 in the actual game), why not make that 2 kids from 1990 and 0 from 91? and ban kids born in 1986 outright, limiting to 3 1987s?
The lower age limit is hard coded. Are you asking if we should make a rule not to have any overagers and just three of the next class?

It would be self imposed obviously, 3 overageyear-1, and 2 lowerageyear+1. IE 3 88's instead of 3 89s, and 2 90s instead of 2 91s

Post by **Manimal** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:38 pm

Animal31 wrote:
Manimal wrote:
Animal31 wrote:What if it was the WHL, but the age limits were scrunched by one?

IE in 2007 you can normally have 2 kids born in 1991 (3 in the actual game), why not make that 2 kids from 1990 and 0 from 91? and ban kids born in 1986 outright, limiting to 3 1987s?
The lower age limit is hard coded. Are you asking if we should make a rule not to have any overagers and just three of the next class?
It would be self imposed obviously, 3 overageyear-1, and 2 lowerageyear+1. IE 3 88's instead of 3 89s, and 2 90s instead of 2 91s

I can't really say why, but I don't like it. And those years confuses me as I only use CSD rosters nowadays, lol

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:46 pm

Same here, Manimal. I'm a CSD kind of guy. Plus, I think the Junior challenges are balanced enough that we don't need to go making any extra rules for them.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:49 pm

batdad wrote:I think that is what he is suggesting. And Bruins...right you are, after the amount of time you have put in to the challenges. Bruins from New England it is for me. Even if you have to add in any state starting with New. New Mexico, New York, New Jersey, New (Foundland), New Brunswick. What a Bruins team that could make- NEW (nova) scotia, New Edward Island.

I want to change my vote..so deduct one from fast forward, unless it is the Bruins (And quite honestly the way the AI works with that team it would possibly be Boston in that one too) ....

and i now vote for the New Bostonian challenge.

Did you notice the part where you're allowed to vote for 2 different options?

Post by **batdad** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:03 pm

Argh I guess I did. I will go vote for 2nd option if I still can. I did with your post what you do with mine...read half of it. LOL

Edit...nope cannot vote again! So add one to the New England clam chowder option!

Animal31 · Post by **Animal31** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:17 pm

Manimal wrote:
I can't really say why, but I don't like it. And those years confuses me as I only use CSD rosters nowadays, lol

for 2014 it would be 1993 overage, and 98(97?) underage

Post by **jesterx7769** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:21 am

The idea of AHL/ECHL is appealing but running into problems with salary cap and losing players and such seems like a big hassle.

I voted for the CHL since I haven't done it before and it seems like it would be more challenging since drafting is more important and you just can't sign a good UFA like in NHL. I don't like the self imposed rules though.

The Bruins one I'm meh about. As a Bruins fan I understand why you would want to do it, but is quite hard for me to imagine it or get into it. If Schnieder is the goalie, it doesn't seem like it would be very hard.

Simming ahead may be good since it wouldn't mess the rosters up too much like a total fantasy would and whatever team picked would most likely be pretty bad.

coombs14 · Post by **coombs14** » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:07 am

I'm all for the CHL challenge. I've never played a game in the CHL so this would be a good reason to do so.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:18 pm

If we do the future flash forward challenge, I've got 2 saves made. One is for June of 2019 and the other is for June of 2024. There is still time to vote though.

Post by **batdad** » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:15 am

2024 as long as the Bruins suck. I would use them. What will be fun about that is sooooo many regens. Could be fun.

2019 if the Bruins really suck there is good too. Wherever they suck.

bruins72 · Post by **bruins72** » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:22 am

batdad wrote:2024 as long as the Bruins suck. I would use them. What will be fun about that is sooooo many regens. Could be fun.

2019 if the Bruins really suck there is good too. Wherever they suck.

They're second worse in the East in the 2024 save. They made the playoffs in the 2019 save.

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