Trading technique / How do I trade?

[demons19]

Can someone enlighten me on how you get the other team to actually engage is fruitful negotiations?
I understand that in 2007, the game could sometimes be persuaded to hand over Sidney Crosby a little too easy. But this version is impossible to deal with. If I offer any player, even stars, they all offer the same exact draft pick package. If i change the setting to win now or younger players or whatever, they all offer junk....So nobody wants John Tavares on their team?
On the flip side, each time I inquire about a player, even one with 1 star next to his name, they come back and say rejected. They could not find anything in my entire organization to make a deal?? really?
I then offer draft picks well beyond the worth of the player and they say they wont even discuss it.

If there is a "trick" to trading I'd like to know.....I have read previous posts by some confirming everything I have said and a few who say its still too easy to trick the AI....I'd like to know the trick. No, not to acquire Crosby and Ovechkin on the same day but to acquire someone!

The only flaw I find is, if anything the AI is too free and easy to give up draft picks (not 1st rd) for marginal players. You can trade off guys that way and load up on picks. They do not seem to value them. So then maybe you can stock your farm for a trade much later. But if you need a 4th defenseman or 3rd line player, its like pulling teeth. I'm just asking for a legit conversation with a team.

So cmon, what is the trick? (from all you experts who say its so easy)
I am sure there are examples of dealing Player X for Player Y and its a steal but how do you engage them and get a fair conversation?

I hate to say it but this area of the game is so bad, its making me not want to play it. I do not want it so easy that I can acquire 20 superstars in 2 weeks. But I do want and expect teams to be fair and open minded. They dont value picks. They reject stars. They over value stiffs on their team. Each team in the league colludes and offers the same exact draft pick package for each player you offer. I find it very frustrating because its no where near realistic. At least not in my game.

Input appreciated

[batdad]

INquire never works. offer to all always gets garbage. Look at team needs, and go after a certain team with the player that you are willing to move. The user has to look around and experiment, not just do the offer to all and not just inquiring. You have to work at it a bit.

[demons19]

Is the gauge interest feature reliable?

What is the true definition of the stars next to a players name?
I know its not value exactly (although that would make more sense) but what is it precisely?
In the old game a 1 star player could be acquired rather easily. Now, not so much.

Is the lack of value of draft picks related to the other teams needs?
For instance, all teams have actually needs and post them, none ever say rebuild thru draft....so is that what makes your picks to them have virtually no value?

[batdad]

Never bothered with it, so cannot tell you. I just work what I want by targetting teams with needs for my guy I want out.

That is how YOUR AGM values the players. Not how other team does necessarily.

Old game AI was BRUTAL.

Lack of value of draft picks? Not in year one. Heavily valued at top levels until drafted. Later are easier, and wondering if the teams are now more aware (AI) of quality of the draft.

No to that last point at all. that means nothing, still value picks the way they value them

[demons19]

So, the key is total focus on their needs and inevitably you will find a fair if not beneficial negotiation.....ignore the other stuff...
I will give that a try.
thanks

[batdad]

I dunno what the key is. That is just what I tend to try and do. The key (I actually do know) is just to keep playing around with it.

[demons19]

Well, I tried for a couple hours....it stinks.....teams just refuse to negotiate. They want a top 2 def, I offer them my guy, they have cap room. The trading in this game stinks.
It's frustrating because I want realism but not at the sacrifice of enjoyment for the game itself.

[nino33]

Well, I tried for a couple hours....it stinks.....teams just refuse to negotiate. They want a top 2 def, I offer them my guy, they have cap room. The trading in this game stinks.
It's frustrating because I want realism but not at the sacrifice of enjoyment for the game itself.

I'm sorry you're feeling frustrated, but for me I want realism or I don't have any enjoyment of the game itself (and given the current Challenge starts off with having to trade 10 players in a short period of time, and users are doing so, it's not like it's impossible to trade)

[demons19]

I offered John Tavares for Esa Lindell.....Dallas said we do not wish to entertain such offers.
This is not realism. Every GM in the league should want him if I am giving him away. Just sayin.

[krownroyal83]

I offered John Tavares for Esa Lindell.....Dallas said we do not wish to entertain such offers.
This is not realism. Every GM in the league should want him if I am giving him away. Just sayin.

But you offering John Tavares for Esa Lindell isn't realism either

[nino33]

I offered John Tavares for Esa Lindell.....Dallas said we do not wish to entertain such offers.
This is not realism. Every GM in the league should want him if I am giving him away. Just sayin.

Yeah this has come up before...I wonder if since reasonable trades are possible (i.e. Challenge example) and your example isn't, maybe the AI is coded not to do "ridiculous rip off trades" and just like it won't accept you offering Lindell for Tavares, it won't accept Tavares for Lindell?

Since no one would ever make the trade you're making, it's not realism, so the fact it doesn't work in-game is OK with me...I'm not saying that Trading doesn't need tweaking (trading AI is one of the harder things to get right), but I'm saying if so many people can play the game and make trades, you'll need a lot more proof than what you've provided to convince me trades can't be made

[lemming3k]

Is the gauge interest feature reliable?

What is the true definition of the stars next to a players name?
I know its not value exactly (although that would make more sense) but what is it precisely?
In the old game a 1 star player could be acquired rather easily. Now, not so much.

Is the lack of value of draft picks related to the other teams needs?
For instance, all teams have actually needs and post them, none ever say rebuild thru draft....so is that what makes your picks to them have virtually no value?

As others have said, Inquire rarely brings anything back(and if it does you won't want to accept), and Offer to All sucks.
The AI also rarely initiates trades, and where it does they are bloody awful offers. It also doesn't negotiate well, often just responding with the same offer over and over.
Your best bet is the gauge interest option, it is reliable so use it a lot and adjust your offer until they will think about it. Some GMs will deal more often than others, some play hardball. Generally it's realistic and based on what the team wants/needs.
Often the roster limits or cap prevents trades, likewise having too many players for one position will "unbalance their roster".
It takes time and some luck to get something good, and sometimes they won't give a player up no matter what but it's very possible. And if you want picks you have to gamble and get them early, once the draft order becomes more certain the top picks are impossible to get, even in a bad draft.

To give you some idea of giving up picks and getting them. This year I have completed:
Draisaitl + rights to 3 prospects (3rd line) for 1st round pick (Blackhawks, last season this was 3rd overall but they have improved this year)
Gagner + Nicklas Jensen for 2 future 1sts (Kings, 1st overall pick last year, likely to be 1st for a while!)
John Gibson, Griffin Reinhart + Rights to 3rd liner for Mathew Dumba (highly rated but hasn't developed great, not a great trade for me but I needed to offload Gibson)

Past years:
Colin White, Laurent Dauphin + 4th for Reinhart
MacInnis + Marek Langhamer for 2nd and future 3rd (Ottawa)
1st round pick (17th overall) for Gustaf Franzen
2 1st round picks (1st and 2nd overall) for Ryan Murphy and 10th overall.
Arcobello + Rights to 3 3rd liners for 1st round pick.
Nikolas Brouillard + Rights to 3rd liner for Wennberg (was on the block).

Quantity does help, and rights to good players as these don't take up roster space. But keep it a 3star minimum or the AI won't want them.

As far as I can tell the stars are the relative GMs values/opinions - these ratings change depending on who you're negotiating with, so it seems to be an assessment/value of your player from their GM. A 2 star player can become a 4 star player elsewhere and gain a lot of value!

[mandalorian229811]

offer to all always gets garbage.

This is true, but it does provide you with the information about which teams are interested in the player, which is especially useful when you are trying to unload the bad players.

Of course, you will not trade for garbage, but, when you go in to negotiate, you can click on add player and then find out whom the other team is trying to get rid of (valued * or **). It takes time, but you can make of like a pirate, especially on the teams who are desperate to clear their cap space.

You may not steal a star but you might manage to trade useless for usefull (my biggest steal so far is trading Matt Irwin for George Pateryn).

[DOCsnowman]

If I have a trade that is close but they still won't accept, I sometimes throw in a player who's contract is going to expire at the end of the year and I will lose anyway. Sometimes that is enough to convince them. Sometimes it doesn't. Like other have said, keep trying different combinations, or move on to a different player.

[visualdarkness]

As an Edmonton Oilers fan I know how darn hard trading players to make your team better really is IRL.

[Northbound]

Also an Oilers fan, and completely agree!

However Offer to All doesn't always return garbage. Most of it is, sure. But I have traded absolutely garbage players for a 1 round pick (I don't care if it's a late pick it is still very valuable). Only one team may offer you it while the rest offer multiple 3rd round picks or one 2nd.

I've also had some decent players offered that I couldn't refuse in a package deal. I generally set my trade block to prospects or picks; and most of the time you do get trash offered. But.. sift through that trash! Right before the trade deadline is a great time to do this, as you can get a decent idea on the value of any picks offered.

[RomaGoth]

I tend to load up on 3rd/4th/5th rounders to build organizational depth. When I start a new game I will unload several prospects who have no future with my team for mid-round picks to "restock the shelves". I did this a lot in EHM07, and it seems to work fairly well in EHM as well.

I even typed up a word document with trade restrictions so I wouldn't take advantage of the AI (for example, no extra first rounders the first five years, only 2 second rounders in any draft year, a maximum of 12 picks total per draft year, etc.).

I am not yet sure if I will need to use these rules (or make new ones) for the new version of EHM. Only time will tell.

[peachesgp]

Also an Oilers fan, and completely agree!

However Offer to All doesn't always return garbage. Most of it is, sure. But I have traded absolutely garbage players for a 1 round pick (I don't care if it's a late pick it is still very valuable). Only one team may offer you it while the rest offer multiple 3rd round picks or one 2nd.

I've also had some decent players offered that I couldn't refuse in a package deal. I generally set my trade block to prospects or picks; and most of the time you do get trash offered. But.. sift through that trash! Right before the trade deadline is a great time to do this, as you can get a decent idea on the value of any picks offered.

I offered Chris Kelly to all teams with the Bruins in a 2014-15 start. I got offered a 1 and a 3 for him and gladly accepted. Ended up being a top 10 pick too.

[Whomario]

I tend to load up on 3rd/4th/5th rounders to build organizational depth. When I start a new game I will unload several prospects who have no future with my team for mid-round picks to "restock the shelves". I did this a lot in EHM07, and it seems to work fairly well in EHM as well.

I even typed up a word document with trade restrictions so I wouldn't take advantage of the AI (for example, no extra first rounders the first five years, only 2 second rounders in any draft year, a maximum of 12 picks total per draft year, etc.).

I am not yet sure if I will need to use these rules (or make new ones) for the new version of EHM. Only time will tell.

Kinda did the same, seeing as new to the game the draft excited me Moved a couple marginal players for 3rd/4th rounders.

Though after a season with the Sabres i am kinda thinking one needs a couple of house rules. Moved Robin Lehner (GK) for a 1st rounder, a 2017 3rd rounder and the rights to a GK prospect (Söderström) in January. Lehner ended up playing 1 game for the Islanders the rest of the season.

Also traded another Goalie (Lieuwen) for the Lightings 2nd rounder and he didn´t play a game before moving to Switzerland. I feel kinda dirty ...

I also traded my 1st round pick (2nd overall) for the Flyers 1st Rounder (5th), their 1st rounder from 2017 and Michal Neuvirth who looks to be a pretty solid Goalie. Basically i liked the players ranked 5-8 more than all but one of the Top4 prospects, so i figured it´d be worth a try. I think i could have gotten even more ...


Trading up in the draft was near impossible though. Figured i try and package my 18th and 29th pick (o yeah, for a first rounder from the Ducks for Foligno and a couple 3rds ...) to get another pick in the 8-12 range but couldn´t get it done without giving up a ton more than i´d like.

Question: Is trading during the draft only possible when you make outrageous offers that get an immediate "yes" ?

[Northbound]

Question: Is trading during the draft only possible when you make outrageous offers that get an immediate "yes" ?

In my experience, no. The AI seems to hate giving up their picks if your pick is under theirs (or at least in the first round) and disregards players. I've offered Stamkos for the 3rd overall pick and was told that they see no value in Stamkos. But that's part of the whole "AI only makes reasonable/realistic trades" debates. Not saying it's realistic, but no the AI won't trade much with you during the draft unless you have a higher pick and trade down.

The AI freaking loves that. If you win the first pick overall in year 1 of your franchise you can basically load up on picks/value to the point that you're set for the next 10 years.

So yeah it all comes down to how you enjoy playing the game. The AI is fickle with some trading aspects, but completely oblivious to other methods that you can take advantage of. Myself I love getting multiple top 5 picks in a draft. I usually end up trading the players I draft later on; often I get shafted in the future trade. I don't care much, I just love the draft.

[RomaGoth]

...Myself I love getting multiple top 5 picks in a draft. I usually end up trading the players I draft later on; often I get shafted in the future trade. I don't care much, I just love the draft.

You really DO work for the Edmonton Oilers!

[Whomario]

Question: Is trading during the draft only possible when you make outrageous offers that get an immediate "yes" ?

In my experience, no. The AI seems to hate giving up their picks if your pick is under theirs (or at least in the first round) and disregards players. I've offered Stamkos for the 3rd overall pick and was told that they see no value in Stamkos. But that's part of the whole "AI only makes reasonable/realistic trades" debates. Not saying it's realistic, but no the AI won't trade much with you during the draft unless you have a higher pick and trade down.

Should have been clearer i guess. Interesting stuff, but i meant possible more in a game-mechanics way. I tried to trade out of a pick and after getting the "we´d have to think about it thing" sent the offer, only got a reply after the draft that the trade fell through due to the asset not being available. Obviously, because i didn´t get an answer and thus picked after all

So my question would be if and how it´s possible if i come into the situation next draft

[RomaGoth]

Question: Is trading during the draft only possible when you make outrageous offers that get an immediate "yes" ?

In my experience, no. The AI seems to hate giving up their picks if your pick is under theirs (or at least in the first round) and disregards players. I've offered Stamkos for the 3rd overall pick and was told that they see no value in Stamkos. But that's part of the whole "AI only makes reasonable/realistic trades" debates. Not saying it's realistic, but no the AI won't trade much with you during the draft unless you have a higher pick and trade down.

Should have been clearer i guess. Interesting stuff, but i meant possible more in a game-mechanics way. I tried to trade out of a pick and after getting the "we´d have to think about it thing" sent the offer, only got a reply after the draft that the trade fell through due to the asset not being available. Obviously, because i didn´t get an answer and thus picked after all

So my question would be if and how it´s possible if i come into the situation next draft

That's odd; the AI will ALWAYS respond to a trade offer immediately during the draft and at the trade deadline.

[peachesgp]

Question: Is trading during the draft only possible when you make outrageous offers that get an immediate "yes" ?

In my experience, no. The AI seems to hate giving up their picks if your pick is under theirs (or at least in the first round) and disregards players. I've offered Stamkos for the 3rd overall pick and was told that they see no value in Stamkos. But that's part of the whole "AI only makes reasonable/realistic trades" debates. Not saying it's realistic, but no the AI won't trade much with you during the draft unless you have a higher pick and trade down.

I got a trade offer at the draft when I was drafting last night. My 5th for theirs. That's it. Just asking me if I want to move down for no compensation at all. No 7th rounder or something or a mediocre player. I don't get what they'll trade sometimes. Then there are other times you can totally fleece an opponent. I traded Semin, Polak, and Joakim Andersson for the rights to Barkov (RFA). 2 years later they waived all 3 of them at the end of training camp. I also traded 3 guys to the Blue Jackets for their first the following year during the offseason, they waived 1 of them at the end of camp and I took him back and another a few weeks later and I took him back too. It was nice to get my 4th liners back and get a first for my trouble.

[RomaGoth]

I got a trade offer at the draft when I was drafting last night. My 5th for theirs. That's it. Just asking me if I want to move down for no compensation at all. No 7th rounder or something or a mediocre player. I don't get what they'll trade sometimes.

I would see this all the time in EHM07. I like trading my 1st rounder for two 2nd rounders or a late 1st rounder and a 3rd or something similar; however in this game that is nearly impossible as the AI doesn't see any value in moving up in the draft a few spots and giving me something in return.

Then there are other times you can totally fleece an opponent. I traded Semin, Polak, and Joakim Andersson for the rights to Barkov (RFA). 2 years later they waived all 3 of them at the end of training camp. I also traded 3 guys to the Blue Jackets for their first the following year during the offseason, they waived 1 of them at the end of camp and I took him back and another a few weeks later and I took him back too. It was nice to get my 4th liners back and get a first for my trouble.

I don't usually trade for 1st rounders as I feel it isn't realistic and can unbalance the game. What you mention here is just taking advantage of the poor AI. Each to his own though.