Performing a Forum search before posting

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archibalduk
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Performing a Forum search before posting

Post by archibalduk »

Recently we've been having a lot of threads asking questions that have been answered many times before. I'd just like to remind everyone to perform a quick Forum Search before posting a thread because often the question will have already been answered elsewhere. If there is already a topic on the subject then please post in that topic; don't start a new thread on the same topic. This also enables us to, in effect, build up an EHM library of knowledge because all of the information and discussion about a particular subject will be stored in a single thread.

To perform a search, click on the Image icon located in the black navigation bar at the top of the screen. A useful feature on the Search Page is the "search topic title only" option. Obviously this allows users to perform a search of topic titles only (rather than also searching through the text in each post in each topic)! This enables you to narrow down your searches, ensuring that you find only the most relevant topics according to your query.

In addition to the threads in our Forums, you can find useful tactical and gameplay information in the Knowledege Base. Also, we have some useful information listed in the Frequently Asked Questions box at the top of the Graphics and Addons Forum.
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archibalduk
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Post by archibalduk »

I just like to add that we will only be clamping down on those users who repeatedly post threads on topics that have been asked many times before. Everybody makes mistakes so don't worry if once in while you start a duplicate thread on a topic - even the Admins do it once in a while! :D
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B. Stinson
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Post by B. Stinson »

I think you guys should move the search button to a more pronounced spot... like adding it in with the blue "New Topic" and "Reply" buttons at the top of each forum. That way, it'll be right there with the 'forum specific action' type of buttons, rather than up in the corner with the general site functions.

Just a suggestion! :thup:
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Post by batdad »

I think we had thought of that before, but for some reason it did not work with this site. Not 100% on that, but I know it was discussed at one point. Great idea if we can somehow make it work.

being 100% up front though, I am not sure this is the problem because every time I discuss the search with a member here, they tell me " I did a search and did not find anything."

So maybe the issue is not the search button, but what people are searching for? I dunno.


My advice: Make sure that you use key words when you search. Not the whole question like "Why does the salary cap not increase in EHM?", but just use "Salary cap" and not even in quotes. then actually look through the list and in the oh, umpteen thousand salary cap threads for:

1. The answer to your question.
2. A thread that is close enough to the question you are asking. It does not have to be EXACT for you to post in it. If it says "Salary cap" in the title, you can probably feel free to post ANY salary cap question there.

The above is only an example, NOT a shout out at any specific thread that may or may not have been closed recently. Salary cap is just one of the biggest offenders.


And so you all know, after a couple or three of these posts where the thread is locked, or deleted by a mod/admin...we may not be advising you anymore by PM..we will just delete the thread, and likely any responses along with it. You will then have to repost in the appropriate thread on your own. We are not going to do it, save the first time we see the mistake.

/grumpy old guy.
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Post by Hypnotist »

I'll admit that the search function on these forums is hard to find initially, but this thread tells where to find it. Something that hasn't been touched upon is where to search. The default settings for the search engine is to look in thread topics only. Click the top radio button that says "Search topic title and message text". Searching for "Salary Cap" in Topics only brought back 23 threads, while searching both topics & text brought back 300+. This is an extreme case, I know, but it is a good illustration.

I am a mod & admin on a couple of othrer boards and something we try to do when a dupe topic is posted is to embed a link to the right thread when we close/lock one. I'll admit there is a lot of laziness, but you have to give the benefit of the doubt most times. Plus if someone else comes across the locked thread, it points them where the discussion is gong on. It sound like the mods are doing the searches anyway, so put a link in the locking post. I think you'll gradually see a decline in dupe threads.

Another thing is the info on these forums is pretty convoluted. Like with the above example, seeing 300+ threads pop up on a search can be a bit daunting to a newcomer and if they have a minor question it is just logical to post a new topic rather than wade through 500+ posts and still not find an answer. I know it can be a lot of work (for the love of Pete, I know!), but maybe slowly start grouping or combining some of the threads together into more generic topics like "Scouting", "Draft/Drafting", "Contracts/Salary Cap", "Coaching/Staff", etc. We use phpbb and utilize sub-forums for this purpose.

Don't get mad, just tryin' to help. But I am getting scared of posting a new topic with all of the closures going on. :\
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Post by Tasku »

Yup, I've been thinking of this myself.

By "this" I mean combining threads, and creating general threads for one purpose, which infact has been done already at some forums here: we have the prospect thread in General EHM Chat, we have Logos thread in Graphics & Game Add Ons, and so on...

Also by "this" I mean the fact that people may get scared of posting, if we keep locking everything up.

But the fact is, usually when we lock a thread, we first use the search ourselves and most of the time, the answer is really easy to find with just a basic keyword in topic type search. If no topics under the keyword are found, I will leave that specific thread open, even if I'm quite sure somewhere among the billion other threads, most likely there is an answer. I don't expect the user to wade thru all of them, but a basic keyword - topic search would be expected, and most people don't seem to bother to do even that. Sometimes the answer is two or three topics down in a clearly titled thread, but they still opt to post another one.

I'd say, if you do a basic search with keyword and topic, and find no answer, or no other similar thread where to add your own question, then you're free to make a new one. We're not trying to shut everyone up, we just want it to be nice and tidy. We want answers to be easily found in one place, not all over the place like a big old mess, which will result in us having to reply and re-reply to the same questions over and over again in an endless cycle, and eventually we'll get tired of it, and no one will answer.
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Post by Hypnotist »

That's more than fair Tasku. I agree with what was said earlier about not wanting to end up like the SI forums. That place is a Cluster-#&$@, a Dog-Pile and unadulterated Chaos all rolled into one! Thow in the amount of trolling that goes on and I don't even go there anymore.

I still think that embedding a link to the right thread would go a long way to improving the overall function of the boards. Like you said, you are doing the searches anyway, so pop a link to one. Takes three seconds and makes life easier for the next guy (depending on how long you keep locked threads up).
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Post by Tasku »

Yup, thanks Hypno, for the feedback, we'll do our best. 8-)

Nice to have an open discussion about this, helps both sides to understand each other. :-)
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B. Stinson
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Post by B. Stinson »

The default settings for the search engine is to look in thread topics only. Click the top radio button that says "Search topic title and message text". Searching for "Salary Cap" in Topics only brought back 23 threads, while searching both topics & text brought back 300+. This is an extreme case, I know, but it is a good illustration.
Yeah, this has actually gotten me on a few occasions. I run a search for something I know was said in a thread, but no results come back. Then I realise that it's only looking in topic titles, rather than in the posts themselves where I remember my keywords showing up. :doh:
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Post by archibalduk »

Thanks for the feedback guys. It's nice to hear the opinions of our users because it helps to make the site a better place for everyone. :thup: Here's my ten cents on the subject:

The default setting on the search page (search topic titles only) was a deliberate act on my part. As Hypnotist said, if you perform a search within the "topic title & text" you'll get a mass of results - too many to trawl through. Whereas searching just within topic titles gives a much more refined set of results. One of the forum rules is to use a descriptive topic title - this is to make it easier to search for an appropriate title. We as Admins/Mods keep an eye on topic titles and rename any that aren't very descriptive (e.g. we may change something like "A quick question" to "How do I edit the salary cap", etc.). Obviously some do slip through the net but we do tend to rename most non-descriptive topic titles.

Let's take three examples of duplicate threads that have recently been closed. I do this simply to show that using a topic title search is helpful - I don't mean to make an example of anyone:

1) A topic asking where all of the TBL 2007 Cards can be found. I searched "tbl 2007 cards" (without the speech marks) within topic titles only. It returned a massive 170 results (possibly because "tbl" and "2007" are mentioned in many topic titles). I wouldn't expect anyone to trawl through all of these threads, but the first result is the "TBL 2007 Cards For NHL Players Now Available!" thread - that would be an appropriate thread to ask the question.

2) Changing the salary cap and what effects it has. A topic title search for "salary cap" (without the speech marks) returns 20 threads (as well as three locked duplicate threads). I can see from the list of results there are a couple of threads that it would be appropriate to ask the question.

3) How to retire jerseys. A topic title search for "retire jersey" (without the speech marks) returns 15 threads (as well as two locked duplicate threads). I can see from the list of results there are two threads that would be appropriate to ask the question.

In the instances that we have closed threads they have been on topics that I/we feel are easy to search for - we're not closing threads that are hard to look for. I think it's just that we've had a flurry of questions recently that have been answered before. As has been said before, we want to nip this in the bud in order to prevent it snow-balling into the sort of thing that goes on in the SI Forums (e.g. hundreds of threads on the same question, information becoming hard to find because there's too many threads on the same subject, etc.).

I think that the suggestion to have a search button on the New Topic page is a very good one. It can be easily done and I will do so when I have a spare half an hour to do so. I accept that the Search button is not immediately obvious at the top of the page in black nav bar - it's something that hadn't dawned on me before. I agree that that is probably a factor in people posting duplicate threads.

I really don't want to scare new users from posting questions - it's the last thing I want to do. We've always prided ourselves on having a welcoming and helpful community. I think that Hypnotist's suggestion of embedding a link to the appropriate thread is a very good one and will pass this on to the other Mods to ensure we do this from now on. To keep things tidy, we're going to delete the duplicate thread after about five or seven days. This will give the user time to see the link we've provided for the appropriate thread. Deleting the thread will keep the forums tidy and easier to browse.

Perhaps we as Mods should compile a large FAQ which lists common questions/subjects and links to the appropriate thread. We could then sticky these at the top of the forum.
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Post by Tasku »

Good stuff, Archi! I like the idea of FAQ at the top of each forum. :thup:
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Post by archibalduk »

We now have the ability to merge threads. This will be useful for merging duplicate threads together so we can keep discussion about one topic within one thread. So if you discover that a thread you've started has disappeared, it has quite possibly been merged with another.

If you have trouble finding your post, go to the Forum Search Page and enter your username in the "Search for Author" field and then click on the Search button. This will find all of your posts, sorted by date order.
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Post by Coyote of the Sea »

What about something like a post linking to the major threads on a topic i.e.

Salary Cap
(link 1)
(link 2)

just for the most common threads to make it easier to find, works well on some of the forums i've been to, to find those non stickied posts. If you need an example i have a link i can show if its okay to link to another companies forum.
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archibalduk
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Post by archibalduk »

Coyote - if you read the posts above you will see that we're already planning to do something similar :thup:
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