Challenge 10

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Calv
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Challenge 10

Post by Calv »

Challenge 9.6 is nearly over and hopefully 9.7 will follow soon after, so I've started the challenge 10 thread. Keep your team ideas on here as well as any other ideas that you have for the challenges.

One issue we will be looking at is length of the deadlines. This year has been particularly busy for myself so I have not been able to add stats & bonus points as much as I would have liked to. However we are thinking of changing the deadline system so instead of 3 deadlines per season, we just have 1 deadline for the end of each season. Hopefully this will speed things up

Feel free to keep any other ideas in here as well :thup:
I may setup a poll in a few days with options for a team
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Post by joehelmer »

Once again time to nominate Phoenix? :roll:
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Post by bruins72 »

Maybe Edmonton's bloated payroll if we're using the TBL Update? Phoenix is another good choice.
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Post by gibson41 »

Personally I vote Phoenix, but Nashville could do it too...although i hate the colors, and my eyes hurt everytime i see the yellow outlines :nerd:
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Post by batdad »

Challenge 9 was west. Challenge 10 should be east. I dunno who there would be good. Islanders? Panthers? Thrashers?
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Post by bruins72 »

I don't know about the Panthers. They could be a little too easy. They've got some good talent there and if we're using the updated rosters, they've got Vokoun in net. They could be a little too easy. I guess the Thrashers wouldn't be too bad since they get weak once you look past Kovalchuk and Hossa. The Islanders are a possibility too I guess but they do have DiPietro in net. Honestly, the Oilers sound the most interesting to me when you factor in the core rosters. Lots of average players there getting paid big bucks.
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Post by bigargon »

woo hoo ...yeah challenge 10 :joy:

I think the oilers would be a good one to work with ..using the latest TBL update
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Post by Hypnotist »

How about another fantasy draft for those of us who missed the first one?
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Post by Shadd666 »

What about the Preds? They seem to be very weak everywhere...

Or if we want to go East, i think the Leafs are bad enough to be a challenge team :p But i think they already had their challenge, no?
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Post by bruins72 »

The Leafs were used VERY recently. They were extremely easy. Then again, with the core roster and homegrown rules, they might not be as easy. Still, I think we should go with a team we haven't used before.

I don't know about a fantasy draft. We did that a while back (sure it was over a year ago now, maybe 2) but I don't know if this would work with the core roster and homegrown rules.

The Predators wouldn't be a bad option. What's their payroll look like? Do they have any overpaid guys? One of the things that made the Chicago challenge so interesting with the core roster and homegrown players was that you had a great mix of talented players who made a lot of money, players that made a lot but didn't deserve it, some role players, and lots of good prospects. I think we need to look at these things and find a good mix of them in our next challenge team as well.
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Post by Lidas »

First of all, what DB will we use?

The unfaked TBL:DB or the most recent one?
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Post by bruins72 »

I'm in favor of using the most recent TBL update.
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Post by Shadd666 »

I'm in favor of the most recent TBL update too.

As for the Preds, i didn't look at their payroll, but they have barely nothing good in the team. No goalie (Mason sucks in the game), nearly no defense, a bunch of useless forwards, and very few talented prospects. They look like an expansion team :D

The only default of the Preds' choice is that they are in the same division as Chicago, Colombus, and St. Louis, who all had their challenge recently... Detroit for challenge 11? :D

What about the Caps? Sure, they have Ovechkin, but that's pretty all. They've got Kölzig at the start, but he doesn't last more than one or two seasons. Varlamov needs at least 4 years before being ready to discover the NHL, which means there's a hole of minimum 3 years at the goaltending position. There's an interesting group of prospects, if my memory serves... The Caps already had a challenge, but it was back in the EHM05 days, so they should be candidate. And it would bring the challenge back in the Eastern Conference...

Yep, i'm trying to avoid the Oilers as much as i can :p
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Post by bruins72 »

Okay, looking at Edmonton (because we got talking about them and they're an interesting Challenge option), I just started a new game with them. They had a lot of players on the roster to start, so I sent guys down to the farm clubs and got them down to 20 players. This makes their payroll $48.5M without making any trades. This is Estimated Average Club Salary. It should lower once we get to the regular season because Total Annual Player Salaries is about $46.7M. Here are the salaries for those 20 players...
PIC.

Looking at the roster, we've got 12 players making $2M or more! Of those 12, 2 of them are in the $3M range, 2 in the $4M range, and one is over $5M. This should make for some interesting choices in the core setup.

The team is weak in goaltending, with Roloson and and Garon as the 2 NHL ready goalies. They've got Drouin-Deslauriers and Dubnyk as goalie prospects, both already signed to contracts. They've got a really nice group of defensemen on the left side but the right is very weak. Several of these defensemen play both sides but to those who like to keep defensemen on their natural side, it can be a factor. The team is super strong down the middle. They've got a nice bunch of centers. Horcoff and Stoll make a nice top two. I had Brodziak and Pouliot as the other two. They've also got Schremp and O'Marra on the farm, as great potential homegrown centers. A few of the wingers on the Edmonton roster can also play center. The wings aren't that strong, IMO. After Hemsky, the quality drops off in a big way. The other wingers would have a hard time making the second line on most of my teams. Most are probably best suited as third liners. They've got a coupe decent wing prospects on the farm but nothing special. Finally, they've got mostly rubbish for unsigned prospects. As for staff, I don't know how much of it is random. In the game I started, McTavish was okay and Bill Moores was good. Beyond those two, everyone else (asst coaches and scouts) were total rubbish.

So, IMO, that makes the Oilers somewhat of an interesting option. Now let's look at the Predators. At the start of the game, the Predators have 24 players on their NHL roster. I sent down Alexander Radulov because he's only 20 years old and not ready for a spot on the roster. I also sent down Ville Koistinen. He's 24 and not really NHL ready but didn't have to pass through waivers to be sent down. Finances are quite different for these guys than they were with the Oilers. Their Estimated Average Club Salary is $34.475M at this point. The team's player budget is $37.7M while the league's salary cap is over $50M. This would allow us to stick to our existing TBL Budget but I don't think it would allow us to be competitive in terms of contract offers (for re-signing our own players or eventually signing UFAs) in the league's current environment. Here are the salaries of the roster I'm seeing... PIC. There are only 7 players making $2M or more, as opposed to 12 on the Oilers roster. Of those 7, 3 are making $3M or more, with just one of them making more than $4M. This could make the core roster fairly simple to work around, IMO.

The Predators are incredibly weak in goal. Honestly, my AHL teams usually have better goaltending than this. I'm guessing people will end up using at least one of their two UFA signings to go out and get a goaltender, even if it's a mediocre one. The defense could use some improvement but it's really not so bad. Zidlicky is a decent offensive defenseman. Ryan Suter could be a monster by the later stages of the challenge. Weber is a good defensive defenseman. I haven't really paid attention to how Hamhuis turns out in my other games. They've also got Yonkman down on the farm. He's a serviceable defensive defenseman. Niskala is also on the farm and he could be a decent option as well. All in all, they're okay on D. Nothing mind-blowing but not so bad. Looking at their forward lines, I'd say they're a little thin. You've got a great Sullivan-Arnott-Dumont first line but after that things get a little shaky. Legwand is a good 2-way forward, good for both second line and PK duty. Bonk is really looking like a 3rd line center and PKer right now. The only potential 2nd line wings I see are a 36 year old Gelinas and a so-so Martin Erat. The rest are either defensive/physical specialists or marginal NHLers (who in most cases will be off the roster as soon as possible). As for prospects, their farm team has a couple that are okay but the farm team is mostly career AHLers. Their unsigned prospects are mostly Russians and Scandinavians in their mid-20's that might or might not want to come over to the NHL. Other than that there are maybe one or two prospects with the potential to actually be useful for more than trade bait. I'm guessing most everyone will have the same homegrown players for the first couple seasons. Overall, I don't know if this makes for that interesting of a possibility. Remember, we're not trading away half the team in our first season.

I'm going to take a similar look at the Islanders and Thrashers in another post. Maybe the Capitals too (even though I'm not so keen on a challenge with Ovechkin on everyone's team).
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Post by Shadd666 »

bruins72 wrote:Remember, we're not trading away half the team in our first season.
I know :) That's why i like the Preds. You've got nothing. And you can't bring eveything in fastly. So you're forced to build patiently your team, stone by stone. And you can't count on the draft in the first seasons as they are pretty weak overall. It would be a rebuilding challenge, while the Hawks was more a develloping challenge with a solid youngsters core to start with. Different taste.

The Isles should have been very frustrating before the buyout of Yashin... Or maybe everyone would have bought him out :D They have no goaltending issue, with DiPietro in for the whole challenge.

For the Thrashers, Kovalchuk and Hossa provide offense, while Lethonen is probably the future of the franchise in net. But i believe they're short on depth and prospects... I'll wait your scouting report though :D
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Post by bruins72 »

Shadd666 wrote:
bruins72 wrote:Remember, we're not trading away half the team in our first season.
I know :) That's why i like the Preds. You've got nothing. And you can't bring everything in fastly. So you're forced to build patiently your team, stone by stone. And you can't count on the draft in the first seasons as they are pretty weak overall. It would be a rebuilding challenge, while the Hawks was more a developing challenge with a solid youngsters core to start with. Different taste.

The Isles should have been very frustrating before the buyout of Yashin... Or maybe everyone would have bought him out :D They have no goaltending issue, with DiPietro in for the whole challenge.

For the Thrashers, Kovalchuk and Hossa provide offense, while Lethonen is probably the future of the franchise in net. But i believe they're short on depth and prospects... I'll wait your scouting report though :D
I really don't know how feasible it is to expect people to rebuild solely through the draft in a challenge. Like you said, there really aren't any immediate impact players in the draft for the first couple years. They need time to develop. That's why you need at least SOME decent young prospects when you start so you can work with them as homegrowns until your drafted prospects are ready. I worry about that with the Predators.

I'm currently working on going over the Islanders but I'm at work and I've actually had some work to do. We'll see if I can still manage to go over them before the end of the day. So far, they're looking closer to what I find to be a reasonable team to work with in the challenge than the Predators do. They've actually got some potential homegrowns, some strengths and some weaknesses. I think we should also look at the Panthers. I believe they've been mentioned as a possible choice as well.
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Post by bruins72 »

Now let's look at the Islanders. They've got a team imposed budget of $43.1M and they start off over that. Of course, they start with 38 players on the roster, so you've got to figure out who can be sent down. I got the roster down to 23 players, which brought the Estimated Average Club Salary down to $40.765M. It gets us within the team budget (with a little wiggle room for those who picked their rosters differently), well below the the NHL Salary Cap of $50M, but still over out existing TBL budget. Over course, I think our TBL budget is going to have to be adjusted to take into account the new 07-08 based salaries in the TBL update. Anyhow, take a look at the player salaries here... PIC. They've got eight players making $2M or more per season. Of those eight, five of them make $3M or more. And of those five, three make $4M or more. So it seems that the money isn't as spread out on this team. There are a handful of guys making most of the money.

When it comes to goaltending, we've got DiPietro who is only 24 years old and locked up LONG TERM at $4.5M per season. When I say LONG TERM, I really do mean LOOOOOOONNNNNGGGG TERM! So unless you choose to try and ditch his big contract, you don't have to worry about goaltending. I'd say the defense is in decent shape. You've got Berard QB-ing the power play. MAB isn't that great but he'll fill another PP role and a #6 D spot for a bit. Martinek is under-rated and under-paid. At $700k per season, he's one of the defensive steals in EHM. You've also got Witt as your main defensive defenseman and possibly team captain. Freddy Meyer isn't bad as a place filler and you've got Campoli and Gervais as young defensemen with some potential. Center is where I find the team to be a bit thin. I don't find Comrie to be worthy of more than a 2nd line role but ended up pencilling him in as 1st line center. Then you've got a 35 year old Sillinger. He's better suited to more of a defensive forward role. Bates is the only other "natural" center and he is a great defensive specialist. Really, you don't have a top line playmaking center to feed your top wingers and that's a real shame because this team is LOADED on the RW. It's so loaded on RW that I had to fill out the LW on the top 2 lines with guys who were natural RWs that could also play LW. You've got Satan, Guerin, Hunter, and Fedontenko... all offensive RWs. I ended up spreading them out along both wings of the top 2 lines. Beyond that, you've got Vasicek, who is a good 2-way LW that can fill in at C and Chris Simon, good for the physical play but still able to pitch in some goals. I still say he hasn't been the same since he lost him mullet though. You've got a few young forwards worth holding on to in Colliton, Tambellini, and Comeau, plus Okposo is still un-signed. So you've got something to build towards the future with. IMO, the Islanders aren't a bad option.
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Post by bruins72 »

And now onto the Thrashers! Looking at their finances, the Thrashers have a team imposed budget of $43M but their starting Estimated Average Club Salary is almost $46M. So it look like you'd have to shed some salary right away, even if we didn't have a TBL Budget. Take a look at their salaries... PIC. This is a very top heavy team. We've got 9 players earning $2M or more. Five of them are earning $3M or more. Three of those five earn $4M or more. Kovalchuk is one of them, earning about $6.4M per season. Hossa is pulling down $7M per season. Lots of dollars tied up in a few players. Holik still has the skills at this point but a 35 year old defensive specialist making over $4M per season is a bit scary!

This team is in good shape for goaltending. You've got Lehtonen to build your team around. He's only signed for the current season though. I'm sure he'll be looking for a pay increase! You've also got Hedberg as a decent yet over-paid backup. Defense is mediocre. Zhitnik and Havelid are pretty good and you can probably get one last season (maybe more) out of Klee. McCarthy is so-so and Exelby looks to be purely a goon. Popovic could be developed into a decent defenseman though. The forward lines have some big all-star talent at the top but it really drops off after that. Of course you have Kovalchuk and Hossa. They're your offense. Kozlov is good but getting old. Jim Slater is actually a guy that can develop into something good in a few years. I've seen games where he ended up among the league leaders in points. Dupuis isn't bad. After that though, your wingers are just spare parts. One of the real weaknesses of this team is the center position. You've got Holik and Rucchin who are both 35 and neither are really offensive players. Todd White is a little young (31) but he's not especially gifted. He might make a serviceable 2nd line center but really belongs on the 3rd line. Your farm team is mostly career AHLers in their mid-20s and a few prospects who don't look like they'll pan out. Fortunately, you've got Bryan Little as an unsigned prospect. Unfortunately, theres not much else beyond that. I'm sure some would sign him for the first season but then they'd be really struggling to find a homegrown for the second season. Tricky! Anyhow, this team could be an interesting challenge or it could just be a train wreck.
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Post by bruins72 »

And now on to the Panthers. Looking at their finances, they've got a Estimated Average Club Salary of about $44.6M at the start and their team imposed budget is only $41M. So that makes finances interesting right off the bat! Take a look at their salaries... PIC. They've got eight players earning $2M or more. Five of them are earning $3M or more. Three of those five are taking in $4M or more. Two of those three make $5M per season. So the money seems a little better spread out here. I also don't see anybody that is grossly overpaid. I think Salei making $3M is a bit much and Vokoun making over $5M is a little excessive but they're good players.

I'd say this is another team that is in good shape when it comes to goaltending. Vokoun is a really good goaltender in EHM and he's 30 years old, so you can get a few years out of him. Anderson is a so-so backup, so I'd expect Vokoun to carry the load. On the bright side, you've got Shantz down on the farm to develop into your goaltender of the future. He gets pretty good. Defense is interesting. You've got Bouwmeester to build your team around. Van Ryn is good. The rest of them are slower, stay at home defensive defensemen. You've also got Noah Welch (who I sent down). He could be decent in a couple years. Lojek is down on the farm and looks like he could be good too. The team is strong down the middle. They've got Jokinen, Weiss, and Stumpel for centers. Not too shabby! RW is pretty good too with Horton and Zednik. Olesz needs to develop. Dvorak is pretty good too. Unfortunately, the team is weak on the left side. Using the current roster, I had to put Zednik on the LW to round out the lines. I also had to keep some youngsters on the roster that I would've rathered have on the farm and in one case give him a bigger role. What this team does have is prospects! You've got Stewart, Kreps, and a couple others on the farm. You've also got McArdle, Frolik, and some others that are unsigned too. To mean this team looks like a good one for building slowly but things are going to be a bit hairy for the first season or two.
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Post by red-dog »

Out of these suggestions I vote for the Isles. Not having to trade for a goalie during the ENTIRE challenge is IMO a very good thing. Unless you hate DiPietro of course. Other interesting Eastern teams would be Philly and Boston. In the west I think Edmonton or LA could be cool to try out.
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Post by batdad »

Hey guys..sometime in the next week or so we will put up a poll for a vote. The things B72 are posting are just so we have an idea of whats there..or at least so he gets a head start. Cause he needs that. :-p
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Post by bruins72 »

Red-dog, keep in mind that we're looking to make these challenges challenging. One of the challenges that comes up often is finding a goaltender. If you look at the later stages of the Blackhawks challenge, batdad showed that with the right tactics you don't need to have an all-star goalie to win. The Islanders are still a decent option though. As for the other teams you mentioned, it's far too easy to win with Boston or Philly. You can do VERY well with these teams without even making any trades. Edmonton is definitely an interesting option. LA is a decent team to use but we just did a challenge with them a little while back. We should really be looking at using different teams.

Batdad... yeah, I do need the head start! :-p I just think that by breaking things down like this it gives people a real look at what they'll be facing with a team in the challenge. Lots of times a team will sound good to play with but when you actually start playing a game with them they're not as interesting. I've had that happen a few times. I'd start a game with a team (not for a challenge) and drop them by the time November rolls around in the game.
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Post by Shadd666 »

I didn't look at the updated rosters yet, but who are the main available free agents at the start of the game? If we pick a team with an obvious hole that can be easily filled on day 1 through free agency, it wouldn't be such a challenge :D

I'm not that thrilled about the Panthers... Vokoun, Bouwmeester, Jokinen... Top goalie, top defenceman, top center... the exact needed things to be a Cup contender. Low on LW, but with (too) many talented RWs who certainly have some trade bait for LWs or could easily be trained at LW... The only issue would be the depth, which can easily be filled through a few trades, or through free agency, or with the load of talented prospects they have... It looks like it can become a powerhouse in no time.

The Preds too weak for a challenge? But do we want something challenging or not? :p
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Post by bruins72 »

The Panthers didn't have too many talented RWs, that was the the Islanders. The Panthers are strong down the middle, a so-so on the RW, and very weak on the LW. I'm not so sure if they'd be such a cake walk. I know I'd rather have 6 good defensemen rather than 1 star defenseman.

There are some UFAs out there with the TBL Roster Updates. There's a bunch of them that are playing in Europe but there are several with no team. If we wanted to make this challenging, I would be in favor of allowing just one UFA for the first season or even no UFA signings in the first season because there are a few guys that are UFAs that could really make a team. You've got guys like Forsberg, Selanne, Yashin, Esche, and Allison... plus plenty of others. I kind of think it would be lame to sign any of these guys to a challenge team as a UFA, to be honest with you.
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Post by batdad »

YEp. No free agents season 1. I think that is a brilliant idea.
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