If I wanted to try EHM07, are there updated rosters?

boyledshark22 · Post by **boyledshark22** » Sun May 06, 2012 11:43 am

Hello, I'm new to the forum, and hoping for some help answering questions.

I remember back in 2008, on a couple of occasions I downloaded the free trial of EHM 07 that would let you play for free up to the trade deadline of the first season, and I would basically trade all the organizational depth of my team, and most of the team except for the stars, for 6-7 more star forwards and maybe 3 star defenseman, and basically just double shift all the stars every game, maybe with a rubbish fourth defenseman thrown in, playing with a short roster, and I would win pretty much every game like 10-3. So I grew tired with the game very quickly, I never ended up buying it to play after the trade deadline, because it was so easy. Players never seemed to get tired or worn down from playing 30 or 40 minutes per game, which means there was no reason not to play them that much, and as a result my teams would dominate. I'm sure if I had bought the game I would have continued on to win the Cup every season. It was just way too easy.

Now it's four years later, there still is not a great hockey management game on the market to my knowledge (or is there a better option?), and since I so desperately want to play one, I'm thinking what if there are updated rosters to EHM07, and I set my own rules to make the game more difficult where no one was allowed to double shift or play more minutes than reasonable? I'm worried the rosters I am able to create through in-game trades with the CPU opponents would still be too good to be beaten anyway, as I don't remember exactly how much my dominance had to do with double shifting players versus just putting together a stacked team, but maybe it's worth a shot trying again. Maybe there is even something in data editor where you can up the effects of stamina in the game so that you won't be able to overplay players without consequence anymore? Does anyone know?

I also had other problems with the game back in the day. I'm a football manager veteran, even though I'm not a soccer fan at all, simply because, flaws and all, it's about a 50x better management sim than anything else I've experienced, in large part due to the match engines which, when properly weighted, are really something brilliant, and you can feel the results of your tactical changes in a very tangible way.

Of course, when my EHM teams were dominating with practically whatever tactics I gave them (I think I put most options to the extremely aggressive option, I had Phaneuf and Pronger and guys like that hitting everything that moved--again, with no wear and tear as a result really, no reason for me not to, which was very unrealistic), there is no reason to change anything, and it takes the fun out of the whole thing. But the bigger problem I had was that the match engine simply sucked compared to the modern football manager engines (even the 2d ones from back in 07 or 08). There were so many I guess you could call them bugs or lapses in the engine where things would happen that didn't look like hockey. Worse, unlike in FM where you can set it to switch to take you to watch the match only during "key" portions, I remember EHM07 didn't automatically switch. You would be having the game go along, having the clock, and there wasn't really a good way for it to take you to the ice and the play during "key" moments. I seem to remember there being a setting that was either way too fast, and you had to slow it down once the play started, or too slow.

Anyway, I assume the match engine still is what it is, no updates(?), but if there were updated rosters for 2012, and it were actually challenging (while still being fair), and your tactical adjustments in game were actually needed and worked as well as they do in FM, and were tangible, even if you can't really experience seeing them in action working like it's really happening like you can in FM's match engine, if all those things were in place then I think I could get passed the poor match engine.

So I'm just looking for thoughts of people who are vets with the game, if they've experienced what I've experienced, if there's a way around the problems, if they think there's a way I can enjoy the game, if I should get it, and then also of course if there is a roster updated as of last trade deadline, with the proper cap hits and contracts and all. Also, I remember I looked to european leagues and all sorts of other leagues to find hidden gem talents, would the KHL rosters all be updated, and all the minor leagues, etc etc etc? I doubt it. Would there just be fake players there or regens you could sign? I don't know a lot of players from other leagues in real life so I probably wouldn't notice the difference. As long as there were players to sign from other leagues and it seemed real, it wouldn't matter if they were updated. Even if the foreign leagues just had the same rosters as in 2007, except for stars and known names like maybe a Jagr, or a Zubov who I think is still there, as long as the NHL rosters were updated, that would work.

Anything those are my concerns/questions. Just looking for some input, thanks very much. I'm hoping, fingers crossed, there's a way for me to finally get into this game and have a challenge and feel like I'm really managing a team in the NHL with everything that comes with it. (It's a shame the best thing about that, watching your team play, even if it's just a realistic rendering on a 2D plain, isn't possible no matter what because the match engine is so bad in this game, but like I said if everything else is in place I guess I can get by that).

Post by **nino33** » Sun May 06, 2012 5:04 pm

boyledshark22 wrote:Worse, unlike in FM where you can set it to switch to take you to watch the match only during "key" portions, I remember EHM07 didn't automatically switch. You would be having the game go along, having the clock, and there wasn't really a good way for it to take you to the ice and the play during "key" moments. I seem to remember there being a setting that was either way too fast, and you had to slow it down once the play started, or too slow.

I've never played FM but EHM07 does allow you to choose the "Highlights" you watch [All Game, Extended, Key Only and None], and there are 6 different speed settings for the Action Speed.....I watch via "Game View" so I can see the clock, ice (2D), commentary, lines (players on the ice) and stats all at the same time and so I never have a problem of the game "taking me to the ice"

Regards

Post by **archibalduk** » Mon May 07, 2012 3:23 pm

Unfortunately it is quite easy to exploit the AI in terms of trades. There's nothing much that can be done about this other than to set your own personal rules (or borrow from the Challenge Rules Nino33 linked to above).

Basically, what you need is the Custom Start Date Patch + 2011/12 Roster Update (it updates much of North America and some Euro leagues) + The EHM Realism Patch.

boyledshark22 · Post by **boyledshark22** » Thu May 10, 2012 12:32 pm

Wow thanks very appreciate all the help. Can someone explain what the realism patch does?

boyledshark22 · Post by **boyledshark22** » Thu May 10, 2012 12:41 pm

Also in reading the rules, I just remembered one of the big problems with the trade engine. Say I'm the San Jose Sharks GM in real life right now. If I want to go out and acquire a really good player to help my team, there are only a handful of players on my team currently who GMs will be interested in, as well as my first round pick. Joe Pavelski, maybe Ryane Clowe although he's getting really worn down by injuries, Joe Thornton, Brent Burns, Vlasic, maybe Justin Braun has some value, maybe Doug Murray a tiny bit.

But Andrew Murray, Torrey Mitchell, even T.J. Galiardi after his poor showing, Jim Vandermeer (he's UFA now but even if he wasn't, same with Colin White), Andrew Desjardins, the list goes on, some of these guys aren't bad bottom 6 forwards or depth defenseman, but still, teams have their own depth guys, they don't need yours, meaning these guys really have zero trade value in the open market.

The problem with the EHM trade engine I remember was that almost your whole team aside from AHL callups had trade value. So it was like 5 3-star players equaled a 5-star player, and if that was too much quantity for the other team to take back, you could add some of their 1-star players to even it out quantity wise without adding more value from their end and thus making your offer inadequate.

So I remember putting offers together of like Mike Grier, Patrick Rissmiller, some depth prospects, and it was so easy to make these super quantity for quality trades.

My point is, in real life, not all your players are tradable. There should only be about half your team that is tradable period, and when it comes to getting star players, the opposing GM in real life probably has his eye on a couple of your best young players, and if you're not at least offering one of them in the deal, it's a non-starter.

Has this been fixed? It's a fine line not going too far but I think a fix in that regard would help. Also I seem to remember by 1st round pick 5 years from now having as much trade value as the one this year.

Post by **Manimal** » Thu May 10, 2012 1:54 pm

boyledshark22 wrote:Has this been fixed? It's a fine line not going too far but I think a fix in that regard would help. Also I seem to remember by 1st round pick 5 years from now having as much trade value as the one this year.

No, this can't be fixed. You would need a whole new game AI for that.

Post by **archibalduk** » Thu May 10, 2012 3:35 pm

boyledshark22 wrote:Wow thanks very appreciate all the help. Can someone explain what the realism patch does?

Check out the link Nino posted regarding the realism patch. The first post in that thread Nino linked to explains very well what it does. Basically it brings down the scoring and PP opportunities to more realistic levels. It works well not only with the NHL but also with other leagues too.

boyledshark22 · Post by **boyledshark22** » Tue May 15, 2012 3:29 am

archibalduk wrote:
boyledshark22 wrote:Wow thanks very appreciate all the help. Can someone explain what the realism patch does?
Check out the link Nino posted regarding the realism patch. The first post in that thread Nino linked to explains very well what it does. Basically it brings down the scoring and PP opportunities to more realistic levels. It works well not only with the NHL but also with other leagues too.

Sounds unusable and flawed to me. Forget the part where all the player attributes are changed and what if he did not change them accurately within the NHL, but he only lowered the NHL players attributes! So any player I sign from europe or the KHL will have a big advantage without their attributes having been lowered. It basically unbalances the whole game from NHL players compared to every other league. Unless he went and lowered the attributes of every other player in the game -- has he since? -- then this patch sounds like more harm than good for a player who likes to sign european players.

I'm disappointed

Post by **timmy_t** » Tue May 15, 2012 3:30 am

boyledshark22 wrote:
archibalduk wrote:
boyledshark22 wrote:Wow thanks very appreciate all the help. Can someone explain what the realism patch does?
Check out the link Nino posted regarding the realism patch. The first post in that thread Nino linked to explains very well what it does. Basically it brings down the scoring and PP opportunities to more realistic levels. It works well not only with the NHL but also with other leagues too.
Sounds unusable and flawed to me. Forget the part where all the player attributes are changed and what if he did not change them accurately within the NHL, but he only lowered the NHL players attributes! So any player I sign from europe or the KHL will have a big advantage without their attributes having been lowered. It basically unbalances the whole game from NHL players compared to every other league. Unless he went and lowered the attributes of every other player in the game -- has he since? -- then this patch sounds like more harm than good for a player who likes to sign european players.

I'm disappointed

Dude, seriously, stop bashing the game please

Post by **nino33** » Tue May 15, 2012 3:39 am

boyledshark22 wrote:It basically unbalances the whole game from NHL players compared to every other league. Unless he went and lowered the attributes of every other player in the game -- has he since? -- then this patch sounds like more harm than good for a player who likes to sign european players. I'm disappointed

Your comments show you didn't even bother to spend a few minutes to read the thread...that's disappointing

timmy_t wrote:Dude, seriously, stop bashing the game please

I completely agree

boyledshark22 · Post by **boyledshark22** » Tue May 15, 2012 6:09 am

nino33 wrote: Your comments show you didn't even bother to spend a few minutes to read the thread...that's disappointing

You mean the 4 page thread with about 100 posts on it from the looks of it? Be serious.

And notice that's why I asked, "has he since?", in case there was an update where he adjusted the european players' attributes accordingly. But what I read in his description in the first post and his ensuing replies was that he didn't alter the european players and some other posters, not just me, were concerned about altering the NHL but not europe.

As for bashing the game, obviously, unchanged, without these patches, it's horrible, we can all agree on that, otherwise there wouldn't be any need for a realism patch. A good sim would already be realistic when you open the box up, with no need for a player to spend hours and hours of his time developing a realism "patch."

But that's why I'm asking if anyone has modified the game at all with success to make it good. I'm still trying to determine that, but if the best anyone has done is change the NHL's players without balancing the rest of the players in the game, that's disappointing if that's the case, but maybe it isn't and that's what you're trying to say?

boyledshark22 · Post by **boyledshark22** » Tue May 15, 2012 6:13 am

Anyway, is there a way to try this game, with the patches suggested, without paying for it? Or do you have to pay for the whole version before you can patch it?

Post by **timmy_t** » Tue May 15, 2012 1:37 pm

boyledshark22 wrote:Anyway, is there a way to try this game, with the patches suggested, without paying for it? Or do you have to pay for the whole version before you can patch it?

Nothing's free in this world kid. I suggest you just play FM and move along.

Post by **archibalduk** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:23 pm

That's totally fair enough if EHM isn't for you - everyone is entitled to their opinion of course. However it is very frustrating that we take the time to answer your questions and you respond with completely incorrect criticism. If you had bothered to look at the download page for the Realism Patch then you'd have seen the graphs comparing the real life NHL scoring levels with EHM both with and without the patch. The graphs show how darn accurate the patch makes it.

If you'd read my post earlier in this thread you'd have seen that the patch affects all leagues and not just the NHL. Even just a cursory glance at the Realism Patch thread would also have made this clear - it is hardly buried in that thread.

I don't think there's any helping you in relation to the trade AI. On the one hand you're unhappy EHM allows you to stack trades but on the other hand you're unwilling to voluntarily stop stacking your trades!!!

I really don't think you'll enjoy EHM. Maybe you'd better off with Football Manager, OOTP Baseball Manager or OOTP's upcoming hockey manager game.

I'm not sure if the CSD Patch will work with the demo of EHM (I'm guessing this is what you mean by playing for free). We don't tolerate piracy on these forums as it is illegal and immoral.

Post by **batdad** » Wed May 16, 2012 6:18 pm

Archi--this guy needs to go. Lame. 10 lame posts.

If I wanted to try EHM07, are there updated rosters?

If I wanted to try EHM07, are there updated rosters?

Re: If I wanted to try EHM07, are there updated rosters?

Re: If I wanted to try EHM07, are there updated rosters?

Re: If I wanted to try EHM07, are there updated rosters?

Re: If I wanted to try EHM07, are there updated rosters?

Re: If I wanted to try EHM07, are there updated rosters?

Re: If I wanted to try EHM07, are there updated rosters?

Re: If I wanted to try EHM07, are there updated rosters?

Re: If I wanted to try EHM07, are there updated rosters?

Re: If I wanted to try EHM07, are there updated rosters?

Re: If I wanted to try EHM07, are there updated rosters?

Re: If I wanted to try EHM07, are there updated rosters?

Re: If I wanted to try EHM07, are there updated rosters?

Re: If I wanted to try EHM07, are there updated rosters?

Re: If I wanted to try EHM07, are there updated rosters?