NHL Goaltender Ratings, TBL Rosters 2013-14

[Tupe]

I thought I'd post this small rant in here. This is really conserning long career games that I like to play. And by no means, I'm not trying to bash anyones work or play down the rosters.

When rating and creating new players and prospects (may it be a goalie or skater) the overall balance in the game should be a factor (and I'm sure it is, not saying that). There is just too many high-end players in the game and while I'd like to see players like Armia and Teräväinen be franchise players, it messes things up in the long run, when creating 100 new youngsters (or raising some prospects CA/PA) who we think will be stars in the future. By the time you reach something like 2030 or 2040 regens pile up and you can basically draft a franchise player or two in every draft. Especially when most of them are all-around talents (off and def attributes between 17-20).

So yeah, really about long career games. It's is hard and I think sometimes impossible to work within the games limits (especially with prospects). But as I think batdad said earlier in this thread, rating young players should be done carefully and trying to achieve some randomness, not making them as surefire future stars.

[RomaGoth]

I thought I'd post this small rant in here. This is really conserning long career games that I like to play. And by no means, I'm not trying to bash anyones work or play down the rosters.

When rating and creating new players and prospects (may it be a goalie or skater) the overall balance in the game should be a factor (and I'm sure it is, not saying that). There is just too many high-end players in the game and while I'd like to see players like Armia and Teräväinen be franchise players, it messes things up in the long run, when creating 100 new youngsters (or raising some prospects CA/PA) who we think will be stars in the future. By the time you reach something like 2030 or 2040 regens pile up and you can basically draft a franchise player or two in every draft. Especially when most of them are all-around talents (off and def attributes between 17-20).

So yeah, really about long career games. It's is hard and I think sometimes impossible to work within the games limits (especially with prospects). But as I think batdad said earlier in this thread, rating young players should be done carefully and trying to achieve some randomness, not making them as surefire future stars.

This isn't just an issue with the newer rosters, it's an issue with EHM regens in general. It's just the way the regen system works in EHM, the game is heavily geared towards offense and eventually you will have a bunch of great players come back into the game as older ones retire.

[batdad]

Tupe--Did you read the whole thread and what is going on? They are working on the balance.

Also...the goalies are being totally redone in terms of who compares to who. They are on track for what has been said in here. Just the db is not out yet.

Wondering if it is time to close off this thread?

They are working on the randomness of younger players, and not making stars right off the bat. THere will be random potentials assigned to all under the age of 21 I believe.

[philou21]

I remember back when I played the original DB that in my Atlanta game I was somewhere in 2016 and in each drafts I could pick futur star players in almost each round. So it's nothing new in general.

[nino33]

This isn't just an issue with the newer rosters, it's an issue with EHM regens in general. It's just the way the regen system works in EHM, the game is heavily geared towards offense and eventually you will have a bunch of great players come back into the game as older ones retire.

The initial/default rosters had to many overrated/top level players, and most every roster since then has carried on the practice (even adding top/good level "immediate retirees" so top level regens occur right away)...IMO the current rosters are the first significant attempt to address the issue of talent distribution (to many top/good level players)

If you don't have to may top/good level PAs to start, the regen system will not create more
If you have to many top/good level PAs to start, the regen system will just continue/repeat the problem (made even worse in the older databases with the retirees)

I think the complaint about "to many youngsters who we think will be stars in the future" is off target myself...I think the problem is the overrated databases with the top level retirees (and older players having PAs based on their peak)

[batdad]

Ah I wrote a post and hit send as Nino did. Again...happening alot to me lately. Here to much.

I agree with Nino. One of the other issues is the AI and that will never be stopped.....they skip the good players in the draft too often, they release good players too often without even signing them after drafting them. Sometimes within a week of drafting them.

ANyway as I said...the guys are working on the "balance" so that the stars will not be too prevalent, and we will not be too weak in the future.

[philou21]

.....they skip the good players in the draft too often

I often had a good laugh because of that. I can draft 15-16 and still have a good pick-up because the AI is picking players with attributes full of 5-8. Even my scouts see them as futur superstars and I'm like okay.....

[nino33]

There's a lot of most excellent explanation/reasoning on the subject already
For those that may not have seen the threads back in early January http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/vi ... 45&t=11844
Anyone who makes the effort to read it all (including the linked threads) will have a much greater understanding of the issues and what's being done to address them



I also want to say that the biggest hurdle is the ENORMOUS amount of time it takes to do the editing.
It is not quick and easy to do, it can be both very tedious and very complicated...and it's all voluntary, done in our freetime

Manimal has done an outstanding job. I'm really into editing, do a lot of it, and everytime I look closer at the TBL Rosters I'm amazed at how good/complete they are. In recent years he's had less and less help, and most of the recent roster/NHL rerating that's been done took Archi most of last year to compile...it takes A LOT of time to do the editing. I'm not Manimal so I don't know exactly how much help he has now, but I don't think it's a lot...Archi and Manimal do a lot! I help out a bit, I know recently CJ has been helping a lot lately, and that's great!


Regards

[batdad]

eXactly Nino.

And really to me, it is time to shutdown these threads, we have poured over this stuff, and we have discussed it to death. The Johnny come lately guys who want to rehash it, can rehash it somewhere else.

Not that input is not valued, it is....but actual work like Manimal, nino, archi, CJ et al.., that is where it counts now.

So if you want to HELP instead of just SUGGEST things we have already looked at .... thank you,

if not, just read the threads, before you post. around and around we go, where we stop nobody knows.

[Tupe]

My intent was not comment what is being done and absolutely not to say what or how something should be done, since I'm doing nada myself. If I could add even some hint of valuable inpunt, great.

This was something I've bounced around my head sometime while reading through these threads. So, tried to word my jibberish the right way, hit the submit button, jumped to my foxhole and covered my head. The silverlining was like nino said that there is so many excellent players and adding a new layer of excellent players creates a never ending current of great players etc etc etc.

To further raise my shield in defence, I keep up with what is going on and browse trough these forums sometimes just to find something new information. I know I'm new here, but I try not to sound like I think I found something new that people here were not avare of.

So, as a Johnny come late, I'll try to raise my effort should I sound like I'm trying to re-invent the wheel. Now this is getting way off-topic with too many not's and but's, so I'll let the people do the work in peace and exploit the results later.

[batdad]

No, tupe I realize that is what you were doing, and I am not being critical of it. Just saying that it is time for the board to move on from it....as the guys doing it, know it, and will be on it if they are not already. To me, the time for debate on the rosters is over, although I know new people will always have something to say. Just time to close off the debate threads and move on.

The goalies and their CA, PA and their attributes have been reviewed to death as have all the other positions. PA for under 21 is going to be variable, (As it has most of the time) but not all issues will be resolved the way everyone wants them.

Everyone has their own thoughts on whether so and so is 4th best prospect, best prospect or brutal.

IE Lehner.