General Disappointment

[SkierP20]

I feel the need to vent, yet again, and based on the inactivity of this forum, I don't know how many people will see it, but whatever!

Yesterday morning, Markus announced that there would be some glitches in the 3D stadiums in OOTP15's release on Friday. The team is in their last week of preparation for the release, and Markus has been incredibly active on the forum posting almost 20 replies to questions comments and what not, and "thanking" numerous others. He reads, he replies, and he is engaged.

Conversely, Sebastian has not posted in the FHM forums since March 25th. Currently there are more issues arising with the game, and more bugs being pointed out. It would be nice to see some damage control done but he is nowhere to be found.

Again, I realize these are two different games but I feel like I am seeing releases by two completely different companies. People love Markus and in many ways love OOTPD for their responsiveness to the community at large. Sebastian offers pretty much none of that. His handling of iOOTP was completely bumbled saying, "we're going to give you an update! Here comes the update!" followed by "no offense, but this game doesn't make me any money so I am not going to give you an update."

FHM CAN succeed, especially at the overall hands of OOTP, but to do so someone else is going to have to step in and take the reins.

[Primis]

Yesterday I think it was that the official FHM Twitter account retweeted a user's tweet about the Stars offering up a really bad trade and then waiving Seguin.

I don't know why a project's official Twitter account would want to promote that about their product, that the AI is *really* bad...

[SkierP20]

You know I saw that too. They just don't seem to get it at all. Just look through the FHM and ootp15 forums its seriously like they're two different companies. And one would expect that they would have the same customer base to tap into. I would be shocked if there was this majority of European players who all bought FHM and are completely content and playing the game.

[nino33]

Again, I realize these are two different games but I feel like I am seeing releases by two completely different companies.

I think what you're seeing is the contrast between version 1 (FHM) and version 15 (OOTP)

People love Markus and in many ways love OOTPD

OOTP is a tiny game (2 developers...reminds me of someone working with a friend in their mom's basement HaHa), and while those that love the game may love Marcus, they're a tiny niche group of gamers - the constant references to OOTP on the FHM boards has never made sense to me (IIRC Jeff or Sebastian noted the breakdown of FHM purchasers, and the majority were not OOTP players)

I'm not impressed with Marcus, because while I purchased OOTP last year (to support FHM indirectly) I don't play because I've no interest in baseball. So I don't have OOTP making me "weak at the knees" HaHa

What I've seen "from Marcus" is the OOTP/FHM boards that connect to him (way to much conflict/hyperbole/unhelpfulness IMO), as does the PR focus and PR mistakes, as does Sebastian and his poor communication. Marcus is in charge, and I recall him stating things were going great with FHM! Despite pretty much no one agreeing with him!

Marcus is the boss. He let Sebastian post the thread where he stated he'd post 4-5 times per week. Is there anyone out there who actually believed this would happen? And Marcus is the one who hasn't done anything about Sebastian not meeting his commitment. And again, Marcus said things were going great with FHM! Seems to me he doesn't value the many concerns of the FHM community enough to even acknowledge them!

My understanding is OOTP is (after well over a decade in development!) a great game. I suspect this is the reason why the game is "doing well" (rather than the community/Marketing/PR)



And for me I don't get anything out of attacking Sebastian's poor communication or focusing on the poor Marketing/PR
And I'm tired of reading praise about OOTP (IMO it's irrelevant to FHM unless you're comparing FHM with version 1 or 2 of OOTP)

I really hope FHM becomes a great game, but IMO there's no chance that'll happen in version 1.
I thought by the end of last year FHM was like a "kickstarter idea" to me...and I've come to accept that

I (like others I suspect) follow FHM posts & the FHM Board, but rarely post anymore
I (like others I suspect) long ago reassessed expectations, and so don't expect much at this point (but still hopeful for the future!)

[Alessandro]

And I'm tired of reading praise about OOTP (IMO it's irrelevant to FHM unless you're comparing FHM with version 1 or 2 of OOTP)

This! Who cares about it!!

[SkierP20]

My point is the direct handling of the community and the involvement in the OOTP community by Markus. I CAN agree with your other points though.

I remember playing the older versions of OOTP but I never played version 1. If FHM lacked features I would agree with your 100%. Compare them. Contrast them. The problem is, FHM included features, and many of those features that relate directly to management of a hockey team continue to be broken... RFA's.. free agency.. trade value etc. It's not a matter of whether it is as good or comparable to a game that is 15 years old. One would think that a 15 year old company would be able to put a better product out now than they did 15 years ago, or at least make certain promised features work.

Last night, Sebastian announced that online play is being included in the next patch. I am shocked that they are going down that road with all of the other problems that the game has. They have not even polished what is existing, and they're adding that? Huh?

[B. Stinson]

Again, I realize these are two different games but I feel like I am seeing releases by two completely different companies.

In a way, we kind of are. At this point, OOTP Developments is more like a publisher. They have three games to their name, but each game is an individual project in the hands of different developers. "Markus Studios" is working on a baseball sim, "Sebastian Studios" is working on a hockey game, and their most recent acquisition is an American Football sim developed by "Francis Cole Studios."

It's kind of like Titanfall and Battlefield... both EA games, sure, but two entirely different developers doing their own thing.

Now that's not to say that that's what OOTP Developments is aiming for, but that's kind of how it is right now after their recent expansion.

[cyclone]

So I guess things are dead again over at FHM.

I really wonder how they expect that there will be sales in the fall after little improvement in 2 years with their first beta, and now the
mostly ignoring the customers save a few posts when enough people complain. Since the complaints have stopped, most
everyone may have given up by now.

[Alessandro]

So I guess things are dead again over at FHM.

You're wrong. They announced another patch is in the making and they're working on it. It's completely OK to be disappointed (it would be hard not to be), but let's just not speak false things.

[cyclone]

I didn't mean dead on the developer side, but on the customer post side- I guess I needed to make that clear in my post- the interest from the users is way down again

[SkierP20]

While there is no reason NOT to think that the dev's are still working on the game (since Jeff is going out and talking about it) I have to completely agree with this assessment. Just watch the forums. Right now, there is silence. At some point in the next 10 days or so there will be a burst of maybe four or five posts complaining about the silence. Then, all of the sudden, an update post will pop up. It's the only way they are sticking their heads up anymore. The rest of the community has backed off. Without an editing program I feel like many have found the game unplayable because of the contract offer issue. Money gets eaten up within a season or two and the game grinds to a halt.

I didn't mean dead on the developer side, but on the customer post side- I guess I needed to make that clear in my post- the interest from the users is way down again

[Kopi]

One question...as i see FHM was a disaster ...will they make a fhm 15? why am i asking this is as i think that that version might be worth buying it and i need a new hockey manager...

[Alessandro]

One question...as i see FHM was a disaster ...will they make a fhm 15? why am i asking this is as i think that that version might be worth buying it and i need a new hockey manager...

Sebastian said on the boards in multiple occasions that we'll have another one. But no official statement has been made (yet?)
You need a new hockey manager? Start a new save at EHM, it's still the best option.

[SkierP20]

At this point I'm wondering when it will be released. We have not gotten the match engine fix yet and you know there will have to be a hot fix after that. It is almost June and THIS game is just about 15 months post-beta release and, well, here we are. They talk all the time about how they are just a 3 person team unless they bulk up this will be quite the daunting task.

[Alessandro]

At this point I'm wondering when it will be released. We have not gotten the match engine fix yet and you know there will have to be a hot fix after that. It is almost June and THIS game is just about 15 months post-beta release and, well, here we are. They talk all the time about how they are just a 3 person team unless they bulk up this will be quite the daunting task.

On the other hand nowadays software houses (like for FM) unfortunately decide to release games no matter what since they can patch it up till april...

[SkierP20]

And look where that has gotten FHM...

[archibalduk]

Sebastian said on the boards in multiple occasions that we'll have another one. But no official statement has been made (yet?)

A couple of weeks ago Jeff mentioned HERE that it will *hopefully* be released before the next season (see the two quotes below). So I guess that puts it around September/October time.

6. What is the anticipated schedule for FHM15? I'd assume when the next hockey season starts but seeing how much work is still going on with '14 I'd be fine with a better '14 and a delayed '15.... but I can't imagine that'd help the bottom line.

6 - release before the start of the season, we're hoping. Can't really give any more details than that at this point.

===================================================================

It is almost June and THIS game is just about 15 months post-beta release and, well, here we are.

And this is what makes me wonder what sort of game FHM 15 will be come September/October this year. Given the slow development of FHM 14, is 5 or 6 months really enough time to develop and release a worthwhile version? I guess it's just a case of wait and see what happens. I suspect most people will be doing the same given how things with FHM 14 have been. Can the game/development cope with another rocky start and potentially lower sales (I would imagine fewer people will be happy to pre-order this time around)??

I really hope things go a lot smoother this time around and that we're not left with another premature release.

[philou21]

They should almost put the 15 version as a big patch/update instead of making another game full price especially with the shape the 14 is in.

[SkierP20]

One more thing I need to add.. FHM was advertised from the start as "The most complete hockey game ever." A common defense of the game is "its the first version.. compare it to OOTP's first version." Well, that is not what was advertised. At no time did any advertisement say "hey, this is the first version of the game, so it might not be good. Just give us a few years." The tag line for the game is not "Eventually, it will be the most complete hockey game ever." It is a matter of delivering on a promise and that is what frustrates me so severely.

I can live without facegen. I can live without online play. Hell, I can even live without some sort of complete in game version. Just PLEASE give me contracts that work, and owners who fire and hire GM's appropriately, and a trade AI that works, and a functional UI. THAT is what the focus of the game should be at this point, not adding more features.

[SkierP20]

And there it is... a handful of widdled off posts, and finally a reply with an update. "It would be tedious to talk about it" but yet a sentence or two explains it fine.. smh..

I don't understand how it is so hard to say "work on the patch is on going. We have hit a few roadblocks with some of the code that has produced some problems particularly with how the game deals with contracts. This is taking us a little longer to clean up than we initially expected. Once we have that cleaned up and have a better idea of when the patch will be released, we will get right back on here and let you all know. In the meantime though, it is back to work for the team. We will update you again soon."

I wonder what the "big news" is....

[Alessandro]

One more thing I need to add.. FHM was advertised from the start as "The most complete hockey game ever."

On the other hand who believes advertising

[SkierP20]

Haha Touche sir!! I have to say though that I really feel that the game has slipped into the realm of being "unplayable." The contract bug that seems to eat up all of your money by two or three seasons in is not correctable unless you either sign unrealistic backloaded contracts that will buy you another couple of years, or if you get an aftermarket editing program. I should never have to edit a program to have to make it work with something that is not a patch provided to me by the dev. The patch that made this occur was released just over a month ago.. We are almost past the point of a "HOT" fix and have moved on to a luke warm or even cold fix at this point!

So let's say, for argument's sake, the patch is released Monday which is May 12th. That would be 2 months after 1.6.2 was released.

Keeping with that timeline, that would mean that the "hot fix" for the match engine patch would be released sometime in early June. That leaves 4 months until October which, as was pointed out earlier, was the goal for the release of FHM 15. with no indication that work has started on 15 since they ARE such a small Dev team and seemingly putting their time into the match engine patch.

Unless the big announcement coming is they are hiring more dev teams or they have purchased EHM and plan to use all of its code, I don't see this as being possible. But that's just me.

On the other hand who believes advertising

[riz_si]

or they have purchased EHM and plan to use all of its code

Not going to happen. We are fine with keeping the EHM code in-house at SI .

[SkierP20]

Well it was just a thought.. I love EHM. I remember sitting around for hours playing seasons as the Springfield Falcons when I lived up there. Sean Burke in goal.. It was a blast.

Well done.

or they have purchased EHM and plan to use all of its code

Not going to happen. We are fine with keeping the EHM code in-house at SI .

[philou21]

You know that it's better that you write your post UNDER the quote so it's less confusing?